Re: Delivery format
 

Hi Noa

Unless of course you created a web page with a "subscription" so that only people who have paid can watch the event. Sort of "Pay per View" ... that again would have it's problems!

My fears with cloud based delivery is still the "value for money" that a nicely packaged set of disks gives the client compared to just a link.

When I did photography in the old days the client got a big white box with a wedding album full of prints and enlargements and sitting in delicate tissue paper. The client viewed that as good value for money for what they have paid.. but of course nowdays photogs just maybe hand over a DVD with all the images on it which appears to less value for money than the album.

When you were a kid didn't you like Christmas gifts in huge boxes rather than those in tiny ones? I think packaging and presentation has a lot to do with client satisfaction and cloud or even USB delivery cannot do that!!

Chris

Re: Delivery format
 

Or you could have a download button and pay per copy they download but then you can have people copying the file and sharing it further, they can also duplicate dvd's themselves but copying a digital file is much easier. Untill that would happen I"m happy just supplying many dvd's and printed dvdcases for danceperformances. :)

Re: Delivery format
 

Don't confuse download with YouTube quality. That would be a big mistake. YouTube crushes things to meet the really low bandwidth requirements. There's no reason you couldn't make large full HD files available, subject to server space and allowed bandwidth. Full HD H264 in 15mbit is perfectly acceptable for most uses.

Don't confuse 'hard copy' with 'will last forever'. Unless you are using 100 year archive media (a lot more expensive), your standard discs could easily fail in just a few years, depending on the client keeps it. Neither DVD +/- R or BD-R media is guaranteed to still be playable when they get to their 25th anniversary. OTOH, what is the point of using 100 year archive media if in a few years no one has a player?

Unless the client is tech savy and knows how to rip DVDs and Blu-ray discs (the vast majority don't), what are they going to do with their Blu-ray disc when Blu-ray players are no longer around? Exactly how are they going to play them?

DVD & Blu-ray could easily be gone from the majority of homes in the next 10 - 15 years. It's not like a photograph where a hard copy requires no technology, what ever you give them needs some 3rd party technology to play it.

You could argue the same thing for USB sticks, but I suggest that it's far easier for them to transfer a playable movie from a USB stick to other formats than it is from Blu-ray or even DVD.

I'm not trying to stir up an argument. I'm just stating an opinion and/or asking questions. This is a subject we all need to understand.

I agree Noa. I also do some 'per DVD' sales of events and a digital download of those would be much harder to generate revenue from, especially if they don't need to order 'now' to get it. Being able to put ordering off until next week, next month, next year means most people will lose interest and not actually end up buying the download.

It's extremely unlikely that the organisers would pay you a reasonable sum to film and hand over a master, and then what would they even do with it? They are giving you the job because they don't want to do it themselves. How would they generate their revenue from a master with unknown advance sales?

In these cases, having a physical DVD is what generates the revenue and being able to watch it online has almost not value to most of the people who otherwise buy the DVD. For this reason alone I hope DVDs continue for some time.

BTW not one of these events has anyone ever asked me for a Blu-ray!

Re: Delivery format
 

The same applies for all those super 8, vhs or whatever ancient technologies where people have to go to a professional to have them transferred to a current medium, like dvd, that's why I prefer delivering HD files on a usbstick, those should be accessible for many years to come no matter what new delivery format they invent, but it will only be safe IF the client makes a backup of their precious files and that unfortunately doesn't always happen. I tell my clients 5 times before they leave my place they need to make backup copies and yet I still get mails like "my harddrive has crashed, do you still have a copy?" Especially these small portable hardrives that take power through the usb cable seem to be very sensitive to crashes.

Re: Delivery format
 

I still have a few client's regular VHS tapes and U-Matic Sony tapes that weddings were shot back in 1976 and have transfered them to DVD wedding videos recently without any issues. Obviously the original quality was crap the like 720/480 SD but they still played fine. That's almost 40 years ago. Those original tapes could also have been put or remastered on S-VHS, Betacam, Betacam SP and DigiBetacam as technology changed. Always an avenue for the transfer to produce income to the videographers. I know a chap who does just transfers of all sorts and is busier than ever, he paid off his house doing just that. I am sure that when Blu-Ray changes to another format all the Blu-Ray writers will not all instantly dissappear in a puff of smoke. It takes many years to go into oblivion.My first DVD'd to customers from 2001 still play fine today.I never had a client call me to say his wedding DVD is lost due to age. As a matter of fact, I had many clients who I convinced to have their 2 part DVD's put into one part Blu-Ray and with much better video quality as all my weddings since 2000 have been retained on HD's as original from camera DV digital footage. Sure brings in extra cash during the slow season.

Re: Delivery format
 

I should point out that a number of people offer shooting weddings on Super 8, I suspect they're being sold is something different to the standard wedding video. They can be then delivered on whatever format is decided, a HD transfer works rather well with Super 8. Kodachrome is no longer available, so they're using modern neg stocks.

Re: Delivery format
 

There is a guy here in the NY area that for the past several years has been shooting weddings on a Beaulieu
Super 8. From what I gathered he shoots about 20 minutes of footage and charges $3 to 4 K. What he does with the film or how he edits and the delivery format I do not know. Perhaps it is the way he shoots or the film look of 8mm film going through the sprockets of the projector with a few scratches and dust mites effect, I wonder. I imagine that look can be emulated in post, but hey, he's makin' the big bucks for 20 minutes of shooting. Hope he spends at least 4 days to edit that for the moola he's chargin'

Re: Delivery format
 

This is an interesting discussion.

The delivery format is such a question for videographers as no matter how the product is delivered, the viewing experience relies again on technology to allow the customer to experience the product.

While the (cursed) wedding photographers deliver a product that relies on no technology to access, except eyes. This is a fundamental difference in these services, which is why we will probably never see a wedding without a photographer.

Maybe if we delivered the wedding video as a flip book of frames, we could get away from a reliance on any particular delivery technology.

Can you see FCP having a File>Print>Print Flip Book option?

Re: Delivery format
 

Hi Tim

Most videographers here seems to supply just a DVD so some technology is needed ..Grandma might not have a computer to see the photos so the bride will have to go out and print a selection for those without technology.

In the old days of film, they got an album so it was instant view of photos in a wedding album with all the pics nicely mounted and presented with nothing needed but eyes and one hand to flip the pages.

Chris

Re: Delivery format
 

That is funny Tim! A flip book plug in is the only one I think I have never seen. Dust mites and all the rest of the old time stuff is readily available. The mention of super 8 for $$$ does not surprise me. In this business guys replicating "styles or looks" from other days is nothing new. There has been lots of them. The guys that jump on those things early are the ones that cash in because it seems as though they are doing something unique. By the time it becomes a fad the big money goes away and so does the fad.

So......which one of you guys is ready to offer a wedding in B&W with no audio to replicate the silent movies of old? One step beyond a flip book Tim....You might be on to something there....Just remember to charge $10,000.00 for it. If you can convince the bride it is a difficult art form to achieve instead of a plug in your good to go. And, isn't a silent bride the dream of every groom. Oops, I forgot, a silent bride is the dream of married men, that wish comes at some point AFTER the wedding so don't use that as an up-sale tactic!

Steve

Re: Delivery format
 

Photographers are both celebrating and cursing the demise of the album with more and more couples opting for digital delivery on either disc or USB stick. So the photographers are actually moving towards needing the technology more and more.

People are also now very accustomed to viewing their proofs online too. This all saves cost for the photographer and speeds up the workflow.

For my corporate clients, I generally deliver everything online.

Even the last funeral I did they opted for download only, no physical media.

Contrast that with the school nativity plays and everything is pay-per-dvd.

Re: Delivery format
 

Thanks Dave, that all sounds like good news.

Re: Delivery format
 

A lot of super 8 goes through a video post production. The cheapest method is just to point a projector at a wall and use a video camera, but the highest quality work uses a telecine for the transfer. Being different enables you to charge more.