Delivery format
 

Now that it looks like DVD and Bluray are kinda being pushed away has anyone come up with a plan for wedding delivery formats? I dont mind delivering on a thumbdrive but I cant see the clients being into that.

Re: Delivery format
 

Give my clients their wedding on a thumb drive randy and I will go under. Is that what's happening in the states?

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No but the market is going away from DVD and BR the new version of Adobe CC doesnt even come with Encore anymore. the broadcast world is changing to file based delivery and consumers are moving towards downloadable content for movies etc. I used Edius they havent improved on their authoring app since they were bought by GVG because they are all file based delivery. the question for us wedding guys is: If glass goes away what do we deliver on?

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Mmm see what you mean. England in the dark ages still though for wedding dvd delivery, I have trouble giving them a link for their trailer!!!

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Randy, there's already people doing delivery by online download only. And I've started offering a discount if the couple doesn't want DVD or BluRay (none has yet taken me up).

Depends on your end product. 6 hour video? 5 minute highlights? If it's two hours or less, you can probably Vimeo or file transfer it. USB is easiest though, to save on upload time.

There's a variety of expensive and elegant USB sticks and boxes for USB sticks out there, so your presentation can still be good.

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Well personally id rather stick with BR I just see the times changing and we have a industry that may get lost in the dust. I guess having a thumbdrive option wouldnt be a bad idea IF you can make menus work with it. I mean it would be a lot simpler if you think about it, more reliable, re-writable, durable. I dont know I am hoping someone comes up with a standard for weddings before BR becomes a dinosaur.

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Blu-ray or DVD disc is a proper mechanism for delivering video to the client. The client takes the disc & pops it in their player. iTunes is a proper mechanism for delivering video to the client.

A USB stick is just a means for transferring the video files about as it's left as an exercise for the reader as to what on earth they do with those files. You can play those video files on a variety of devices but it's not clean transparent or foolproof.

If you really want to deliver the basic video files without menus then you can deliver them in a nice case on a data DVD so at least they cannot be over-written.

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I think you are missing the point its not that I want to use a thumbdrive its that I am trying to see what we as wedding videographers are going to deliver on if DVD/BR goes away and I believe it will. If you really think about in the present to the near future our industry is the only one that needs glass. Movies are downloadable and streamable TV shows are recorded on DVR. Do you think Sony and Samsung are going to make BR players just for Wedding jocks?:)

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DVD is NOT going away. There is still a vast market in DVD discs. I was just down our local Garden Centre & they have loads of cheap DVDs on all manner of subjects like cookery & Formula One. It's the same at the local garage & grocery store they sell DVDs as impulse buys in rotating racks like greetings cards. Just think of all the special interest videos that used to be on VHS they are now all on DVD. Local tourist attractions have a DVD about their history. There are DVDs on Shire Horses & Spinning. There is no way that all this stuff will be on iTunes in the near future & even if it was it will still be on DVD because all the old folk have replaced their VHS player with a DVD player & don't have access to streaming videos. The profit margins on DVD & Blu-ray discs are enormous so the studios will continue to sell them as people still like to have a physical product.

Blu-ray discs are another matter but the players are barely more expensive than a DVD player & as they play both don't see why the players shouldn't be on sale for many years to come.

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I just bought a BD player that wirelessly hooks up to my edit computer so I can view clips on my big TV and has Netflix, Hulu+, and about 5 other movie sites as well as FB for $65.00. How can you beat that!?
I don't think DVD or BD is going away anytime soon. DVD will certainly go before BD and by the time all of that happens, some of us simply won't care anymore.

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Randy, I'm with you on this one - I was trying to think of a delivery method just yesterday with your same thoughts in mind. DVD and BR will disappear because the driving force for these is the consumer and the consumer now mainly consumes content through 'on-demand' services -Netflix, iplayer, iTunes, 4OD etc.

Yes, there are people who will still buy DVDs but they will be limited to the older generation who are not willing to move with the times and that is why you're finding these being offered in places such as garden centres, petrol stations etc, because this is places they visit.

The demographic that the technology industry are interested in and are willing to provide products for are the 21-45 because these are the ones with the disposable income and this is the generation that grew up with modern technology, and most importantly - that's our market.

I'm not really sure what the answer is here - I thought about dumping the complete edit onto an Apple TV or something similar but not really sure if that's possible, and it only gives one copy. You could possibly create a web-based menu/interface that could link to individual movies on the USB stick. I think it's a good discussion to have because I believe that within a couple of years we won't be sending out discs.

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I'm one of those older generation people and trust me, I move along with tech pretty well. I think that's an over generalization. People move from one tech to another dependent on their needs, wants and disposable income. If they don't need it but can afford it they might buy it but if they want it and can't afford it they'll find a way to get it.
I've seen this before, maybe before some here were out of diapers. Not to mention out of all the weddings I've done, I've never had a bride say to me, "oh please, give me a little USB drive so I can show everyone my wedding" or "send me the link to my wedding so I can watch it on my 22 inch monitor". They want to feel as if they got something for their money and I think that's going to be Blu-Ray for a while yet.
Of course being of that older generation I could be wrong. Either way I don't care since I'm retiring at the end of the year so I'll leave these discussions to the younger generations. ;-)

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XBOX ONE Blue ray. Microsoft now believes it's here to stay. Well for a few years anyway. But I must admit digital cloud will most likely be here when you want to watch your wedding on your golden anniversary. Will Blue ray ?

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I think you're being a little too far-sighted if next year you think there won't be a demand for DVDs or Blu-rays. This is what we do… by default we only offer a digital download of the wedding film, if they want to order DVD's or Blu-rays for grandma and grandpa, or their parents, great, we charge extra for those, $250 for the first, $50 extra for each additional. Don't assume people are paying $5k and up for a wedding film just to sit and watch it on their laptop. I've spoken to my clients for next year and most are planning to purchase discs, while one younger couple is going to stick to the digital download only.

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I know nobody my age (30's) who has either a DVD or a BR player, I don't even have one myself!! I stream or download everything I watch at home.

I used to deliver chaptered DVD's that I would test on my PC as I don't have a DVD player but I stopped doing them about a year ago and no client has ever come back to me afterwards asking for one. The videos I supply they can play on their phones and tablets which is what people have with them nowadays. My mother is in her 60's and watches missed episodes of her soaps on her iPad for crying out loud!!

I personally think the DVD is a dead duck. People will still take them if they are offered but if you don't offer them then they will be happy with what you give them as it's what younger people are used to. Even the USB will have a short shelf life I think and Online Delivery is the future.

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My daughter (28) has DVD player and never rents or downloads movies.

My sons (25 & 27) both have Blu-ray players AND BUY movies on Blu-ray. The don't rent, ever, not do they download their movies.

They do download their games, because it's cheaper then buying physical discs.

Maybe when they all get to your age (30) there'll instantly sell them ;)

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I'm 36 and we converted to digital only, though we use my PS3 which has a blu-ray/DVD player. I'm smart enough to know that you never assume you'll always have internet :) So even though most new movie purchases are via streaming, I still have some DVDs, just in case.

That's why I prefer to simply provide both for clients, so they can decide which suits them best.
*Online is great for instant delivery, and for them sharing with family/friends
*digital allows them copies of their material and can be used (almost) anywhere
* DVD/blu-ray is established and accessible, so that traditional only folks, especially parents, can still see everything.

I'm in no hurry to quit DVDs, but am willing to believe that in 10 years or so, it will have diminished. Just remember how slow this conversion can take. For instance, DVD became a legitimate consumer format in 1998. 2002 was the first time DVD outsold VHS and they still made stand along VCRs until 2008! They STILL make DVD/VCR combos because so many people don't want to give up their old stuff.

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This conversation has taken place before. My answer is still the same as it was then. Unless you want to loose out on business it is not for us to decide how the client should receive the product. It is up to us to provide it in the format THEY want.

Yes, we are once again in a transitional phase. These are not overnight transitions. Nothing to get excited about here. I have been through many of these.

Steve

Re: Delivery format
 

Newspapers are how we like our news delivered................ :)

Nobody is forcing anyone to change how they do their business but as far as I am concerned you can either do as you always did and hope it will be ok or you can embrace the present and future proof your business.

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I offer dvd as standard as usually one copy goes to either the parents or grandparents and I don't see that changing soon but I have been pushing HD file delivery on a thumbdrive for the couple (they are now from a ipad/iphone generation) and to my surprise that's about all I have been selling lately, just a very small percentage requests blu-ray.

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I offer both as well however I don't ask which they would prefer, I simply deliver digitally. If they then ask for a DVD then I will provide it but I have never been asked for one since I stopped providing them. I'm pretty sure if I was still providing chaptered DVD's my clients would be happy with them too.

I never mention the word DVD during the initial sales meet and only explain the benefits of digital download and how they can use it on their digital devices. When they realise they will be able to watch it on their phone and tablet in HD, stream to their 42" TV in HD and copy it to their PC etc they are amazed at the technology!

It costs me nothing to do this and in actual fact is cheaper for me to deliver this way. It is the future so why not embrace it now?

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For those who offer digital download, in what way do you send the files to them? Something like dropbox or?

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I must say that many of my customers here are tech savy and most demand that their wedding is on BluRay. The majority have 47 inch LCD/LED screens and larger. DVD shown on those large panel displays look like mush and displays like a 2rd generation VHS copy., DVD's looked good on the tube teles of 32 inch and smaller, now they have 80" LED displays and soon will go to 4K.
I always clinch the sale when I let them see and compare the quality between a 2 hour DVD and the SAME wedding on a 2 hour BluRay disc. It is an eye opener and that is my "edge" that makes them sign. I believe one has to be up to date on what the client wants as the best possible quality or else the competition will offer it. Delivery on a thumb drive and similar runs the risk of corrupted files, loss, and accidental erasure and other possible ways to "lose" the files. I make a BluRay master, give 2 BluRay copies to the client and have the project file stored on a hard drive. The price of hard drives being as they are makes it feasable to archive 15 weddings on a 3TB drive that costs $150, costing only $10 to store away the wedding. I did just that back in 1999 when all of a sudden everyone wanted their wedding on DVD instead of the VHS they received. As soon as a DVD burner was available, I charged $250 for the DVD copy per client. Keeping them project files really paid off and would you believe it, I have some customers that got married in 2003-2006 and now asking for a BluRay copy. Sure, I can do that,,, just pay $250.

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I always love these conversations. All kinds of people from different parts of our great melting
pot of a world, trying to tell others in much different circumstances what they should be delivering on.
Some markets will have more of an uptake of streaming video, others may want Blu Ray or DVD.
It's really not a huge deal, I can give them any of the above. Most often, my clients actually will
pay extra to get all three (Yup, I imitate the movie industry and give them a Blu Ray, DVD, and
digital copy). Plenty of my clients still want normal DVD's....probably over half. They could care less
'it is tech of the past'. And lots of these clients are not only brides, but also business owners and
lots of them under 30. I don't know why anyone wouldn't just tell the client
"I can deliver in any format you want!"

Re: Delivery format
 

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this?? Do you mean just not simply posting the 10 minute highlight trailer to Youtube as a means of delivery? Or are you saying in 10-20-30 years there just won't even be an internet anymore? I kinda think it's like TV, radio, or the Telephone. It'll probably always be there. At least for 100-200 years.


ANYWAY, as for DVD & Blu-Ray, it's a transition phase, tho early on imho. I'm surprised people are already not supplying them & going digital only, but hey good for you since it obvi works. As for us still selling physical discs, it'll be around a while. I guarantee in 5 years quite a few of us will still be supplying couples with them, tho DVD's will probably be really on their way out. 10 years, probably be more like digital only. Anyway, as with anything, transitions are typically slow but inevitable. I'm 40 & have seen the rise of cassettes, cd's replace them over time, DVD's replace VHS, and HDTV go from early adopters only to being in nearly every single household. To say DVDs & BR won't go away is nearsighted, to say they're worthless now is farsighted. We're somewhere in the middle, exactly where I don't know.

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I remember when in the early 70's I knew a friend up in Canada who did weddings with a Super 8 film camera that also recorded audio. That was a big thing back there. All he did was splice the 15 or so small 3 minute reels together and offered the client a big reel or two. That's it, no editing whatsoever. He would charge $1500
for the job back then and have the client pay extra for the film. There was no question about format delivery.
There was one original and no copies. Easy as pie and he bought a 71 Corvette convertible fully paid with only shooting 5 jobs. How come we can't do that today and charge $10,000 a job and get a 2014 Corvette convertible also. ?

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I was referring to the fact that we still own DVDs even though *most* of our new movies come streaming. I know that there will be times our internet goes out and streaming won't be an option, so we keep some DVDs around.

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Having a hard copy of the event wether on a DVD or BluRay is a wise decision. Imagine if the streaming servers go off-line or get corrupted or any eventuality that does not permit the client to access the files ?
Information can and will be lost up there in the "cloud" eventually, and when that happens where does one go to retrieve the files ? Hello, videographer, I cannot see my wedding anymore on the net, do you still have a copy of my wedding somewhere. please oh please find it.... I would not even trust my vacation pictures to be stored anywhere else but on an optical disc, let alone a wedding. Even a recent wedding I shot last week is stored on BluRay at another location before any editing is done. Just in case my hard drives fail, get burned in a fire, stolen, dropped etc.

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Hi Guys

Surely to goodness you must respect the client's wishes and if they want it on DVD then give it to them on DVD ..by all means offer different media but still supply what the client wants.

Imagine walking into a car dealership and ordering a brand new car in red metallic paint to be told "Sorry you can only have it in black or white now"

You have to realise that a LOT of weddings are for Grand Parents and they often have only just managed to master a DVD player never mind cloud based online content.

Chris

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Hard to predict anything on this scale, but my feeling is that if the "cloud" and all the things "up there" suddenly get lost, there are bigger problems than clients' wedding videos.

(This coming from someone who does still deliver on those paleolithic blu-ray discs.)

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+1 Chris!

No one has actually come out and flat stated "I won't give them a DVD even if that's what getting the job depends on", but I think some of you are getting close.

The lure of the easy road is calling. Make your edits, push a few buttons, and BAM, the job is delivered and over! No authoring, no extra encoding to .mpg, no burning glass. No processing your final product into multiple formats to make everyone happy. No physical delivery of a hard good to deal with. As technicians we know it is coming, but we are not there yet. We are a long way away from that.

Guys, some of you know I don't do weddings, I do mostly corporate work of one type or another these days. But I read many more posts than I comment on and contribute when I can. For the sake of this thread my business is not much different than yours. I have wider parameters to deal with. I must be prepared to deliver video in any format and exact specification my clients require. It goes way beyond contemplating what player the average home owner has in their living room or if they are so tech cool they go into seizures if they lose sight of their I pad for five minutes.

For me, I do what ever it is they need me to do. And I do it gladly, it is all about basic customer service. I deliver what my clients want to receive. During the process I may need to be an educator and adviser, but it is never "my way or no way because I know better than the client".

It is how I earn my living and I like to buy groceries and pay my bills. I would deliver video on horseback if they asked me to.

Steve

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Steven,

You pretty much stated my exact feelings. I'm not selling food or water or something
someone HAS to have to substain life here. I'm selling a commodity.....I better be
prepared to offer great service and give them whatever format they want. Like you,
I like to have a warm roof over my head and food in the fridge.

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Is it not up to the client what delivery format they want? If you offer a choice, you keep everyone happy. Many people are computer literate, and they of course are using them to view this forum. However, my mum (83) struggles with DVDs and CDs, despite the simplicity. It's not the DVD, it's simply the sequence of button presses to make them work. Any form of delivery medium that involves button prodding thwarts many people. USB sticks fit neatly into network CAT5 sockets. They don't make contact of course, but they fit quite nicely.

Options also increases the opportunity for extra profit. DVD Sir, or for an extra XXX, a Blu-Ray. We even have USB sticks available in a presentation box for an extra ZZZ. Just let us know your preference.

Just the same when delivery went from tape to DVD, for the crossover, it was extra income.

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You mean that you don't know anybody with a PS3 or an Xbox? The former has Blu-ray player & the latter DVD. The new models the Xbox One and PS4 only just started shipping and both have a Blu-ray player.

I really wish that there a good way of delivering wedding videos online but there & isn't until we can deliver them via iTunes, Netflix or similar then we need to deliver physical media & I think that a Blu-ray disk is superior to a USB thumb drive.

I export Blu-ray H.264 video files from Premiere Pro and use Adobe Encore to create a simple Blu-ray disc with one picture menu and no thumbnails just 5-10 menu selections. I then change the project setting to DVD & Encore creates the DVD without any more work on my part.

Re: Delivery format
 

Genuinely, I do not know of any friend of mine who has either a PS3 or an Xbox. I'm pretty sure some of them may have them as they have kids in early teens so it's highly likely they might have one. But you know what my point was anyway so I won't elaborate :)

I accept that everyone delivers differently and thats ok, nobody is right or wrong I was just telling you that this is how I do it.

Someone mentioned above that you should give what the client asks for, however I disagree with this. Our clients generally have never booked a videographer before so have no real idea of what they are getting or of what they actually want. This imo is where client education kicks in. I educate them into understanding that digital delivery of a HD mp4 file is not only what they need but what they actually want. I show them a clip running on an IPad and explain that this is an mp4 and it will run on your phone, tv, DVD player (when copied to a USB stick) etc etc and so far all have been 100% happy with this. If however they specifically ask for a DVD then of course I will burn one for them but only if they ask and so far nobody has asked.

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The Encore workflow is great. I encode blu-ray and dvd for every wedding client and delivery in a double album from WHCC. For extra copies, it is often that the couple ONLY asks for blu-ray these days. (family copies).

In other words: I still delivery via discs. Most discs are blu-ray, some DVD (for weddings).

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This again demonstrates how different we are around the world. In your case the family only want extras as Blu-ray, but here I've found extras have been exclusively DVD. Go figure…

The whole Blu-ray thing just hasn't taken off for me, maybe because I charge extra for it. In the past 12 months I don't recall shipping a single Blu-ray disc, it's been all DVDs, downloads and USB sticks. The previous year I did a couple of Blu-ray, the year before that I did a couple as well but it no longer seems to be a priority.

Over the last couple of years the price has become more of a driving factor for a lot of people and I've actively turned away some weddings because of it. I'm not going to heavily discount just because video was an "afterthought" and there is "no budget" left.

However, downloads instead of physical media have been one way people see they can save money but also actually get full HD instead of spending more money and getting only SD on DVD. This has actually made a real difference on a couple of bookings.

There is no right or wrong way and different people want different things. I'll supply what ever they want, including VHS tapes as long as they are willing to pay for the time it takes to do it.

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ok a couple things:
1. I just wanted to see if anyone was considering what we as event shooters would do if DVD/BR goes away personally I think it will but hopefully not for a few years.
2. Lets be honest the 2 main things that consumers use DVD for is movies and porn both are now delivered through the net. they may need to record TV show too for that we use DVRs. So as a consumer why would you even need a DVD/BR with the exception of YOUR WEDDING VIDEO?
3. Xbox went BR but not for movies they are still selling games, in fact for movies the Xbox is a video streaming beast.
hey if BR stays around great I just think we as wedding jocks should start looking at alternatives.

Randy

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A hard copy is more permanent to archive and store a once only event as a wedding. You may give them a thumb drive, on the "cloud", even You Tube it, but a hard copy preferably on BluRay is it as far as archival and full HD resolution is concerned. We as videographers spend a lot of money on the sharpest lenses, the best low light cameras, and nitpick on the finest details as far as image quality and yet there are those that want to degrade all that and relegate it onto a low res upload on the net. Whoa ! Some are even talking about a wedding in 4K resolution in these parts and many here already purchased their 4 K panel displays. Imagine how a regular DVD would be on those. If I were to even suggest a client's wedding be delivered on a media card I would be laughed at, not because of image quality but the fact that they want a permanent copy or copies that will last a lifetime and for generations. Sure I can easily make multiple copies of memory sticks but that is not what they want to hear. Eventually even BluRay disks will go out of style but may be replaced by the green laser that writes 8K or 16K video to a 2 inch diameter optical disc of extreme fine pitch with 12 vertical layers of digital info. When the time comes that the discs will be obsolete, the newer generation will always welcome the data from the previous one to be stored onto. Just like 8mm home movies went to VHS and to DVD and to BluRay and to the green laser and to the Turbo990Violet Laser that records 32K content on the molecular level to a saphire crystal. Just kidding. A hard copy is always a hard copy.

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Now I think about it, for weddings I wouldn't mind but I do a few dance events as well every year and I get paid per dvd I sell, so if I deliver +200 dvd's it's quite profitable but if I only had to deliver one HD master I had to set one price in advance and I couldn't ask as much since there is no time involved burning and printing the dvd's, often after I deliver they ask extra copies and with each copy it's extra income, that would be gone with a digital delivery.