Youtube and Copyright at DVinfo.net

Brendan McElwaine · May 25th, 2014, 06:57 AM

Due to the new restrictions on Vimeo and in view of the fact I'm not a fan of most of the music on the royalty free sites I have been considering what my options are.

If I upload a clip to Youtube and it contains a song which I don't have the rights to it will be flagged as containing 3rd party content, ads will be placed on it and it will remain viewable.

According to the link below "In most cases, getting a Content ID claim isn’t a bad thing for your YouTube channel. It just means, 'Hey, we found some material in your video that’s owned by someone else.'

It’s up to copyright owners to decide whether or not others can reuse their original material. In many cases, copyright owners allow the use of their content in YouTube videos in exchange for putting ads on those videos."

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6013276?hl=en

So my question is, is my use of the used song now legitimate? If so, what are the downsides to using Youtube other than ads appearing over the clips?

Chris Harding · May 25th, 2014, 08:45 AM

Hi Brendan

They not only detect songs you have added but also songs in the background so unless your footage is totally music free you will get ads or sometimes they might make the video not visible in some countries.

I gave up using vimeo years ago as their servers and mirrors are useless and constantly buffer! Sure, the quality is nice but if 30 secs of video plays and then stops the bride will lose interest and move on! That's why I use YouTube only. At least brides can click the link and it plays from start to end without stalling!

If you have to have a bit of music (even from say, a PA system) and YT tags you, 99% of the time the video will be quite playable and usable and the viewer can easily close the ad window too!

However NO you do not now have legitimate use of the song at all ..it's still copyright and an ad will go up and usually that's all that happens and the copyright holder earns a bit of cash!

Trying to get permission to use music online is not only a minefield but also an exercise in futility and also if you did manage to get copyright permission you couldn't afford it.

I just upload to You Tube and let them do their thing as far as copyright is concerned...in rare cases yes they might remove the music or ask you to but in 99% of cases it's just an ad.

Chris

Brendan McElwaine · May 25th, 2014, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

However NO you do not now have legitimate use of the song at all ..it's still copyright and an ad will go up and usually that's all that happens and the copyright holder earns a bit of cash!

Thanks for the reply Chris. What I meant by "legitimate" was that would this me I'd be free from any legal repercussions. I'm more than happy to have the ad and for the copyright holder to earn a bit of extra cash (and hopefully some of that might even make it's way to the original artist!)

Arthur Gannis · May 25th, 2014, 01:51 PM

This music copyright thing has never been a problem for me. For well over 40 years I have been putting popular songs on the videos for my clients. Songs come from purchased LP's , CD's and such. The songs are not resold by me. They are not used for commercial purposes. I have paid for them, or should I say my clients have paid for them, as I used THEIR $$$ to buy the music. The videos are not aired or put over the net by me. The clients choose the songs and they also pay for them by bought CD's fro which I have a collection. Every time I buy CD's I keep the receipt as proof of LEGAL purchase and ownership by myself/client. Also when a DJ plays music in the reception, I consider it AMBIENT sound/noise that my camera captures without being MY request to the DJ to play those songs. The songs were selected and put there by the DJ. He/she should have the roylalties taken care of as he/she is in the music business, not me, I am in the camera business. If the artists do not want me to use their material, then they should find a way to block/ cloak/ prevent/ encrypt/ the material to those who capture ( not copy intentionally) the music in any form emitted to any capturing device/apparatus/camera. There was such a thing as copyguard/Macrovision, remember ?? If the artists cannot come up with a way to copyguard or recordguard their stuff as it propagates from a loudspeaker, then it is not my problem. I did not put that noise up there.

Les Wilson · May 25th, 2014, 02:08 PM

Then there's this perspective:

And this:
Margaret Gould Stewart: How YouTube thinks about copyright | Talk Video | TED.com

Dave Partington · May 25th, 2014, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson

And this:
Margaret Gould Stewart: How YouTube thinks about copyright | Talk Video | TED.com

Thanks - this was interesting....

Nigel Barker · May 25th, 2014, 10:52 PM

I believe that if YouTube does not remove the music track & just puts ads on that the usage IS legitimised. The rights holder is able to insist on removal & the fact that they haven't means they have given a de facto licence. The rights holder could hardly make a claim for damages if they have not only allowed the use but even benefited monetarily from the ad revenue.

Brendan McElwaine · May 26th, 2014, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

I believe that if YouTube does not remove the music track & just puts ads on that the usage IS legitimised. The rights holder is able to insist on removal & the fact that they haven't means they have given a de facto licence. The rights holder could hardly make a claim for damages if they have not only allowed the use but even benefited monetarily from the ad revenue.

That's my take on it as well and it's certainly the impression given in the video Les posted above. Which leads me to the question, why do people pay for royalty free music? It seems to me that the youtube way of doing things is perfect for everyone:

- The videographer doesn't have to eat up his already small profit on music
- The copyright holder gets both payment and exposure for their song
- The client gets the music they want

Paul R Johnson · May 26th, 2014, 02:43 AM

Im in a tribute band here in the UK and thought it quite nice that one of our videos was flagged as having copyright belonging to the original band. So our sound is close enough to the original that they get the small sums generated. It's a compliment in a way? Good for ads? So close to the original even YouTube didn't notice it wasn't the original artiste .

Dave Partington · May 26th, 2014, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson

Im in a tribute band here in the UK and thought it quite nice that one of our videos was flagged as having copyright belonging to the original band. So our sound is close enough to the original that they get the small sums generated. It's a compliment in a way? Good for ads? So close to the original even YouTube didn't notice it wasn't the original artiste .

I guess that's the ultimate tribute then :)

Chris Harding · May 26th, 2014, 04:23 AM

I did a commercial video for the Government here a few years back on their electric car fleet and also an online manual for drivers using them. In the interests of copyright I decided to use a SmartSound track which is Royalty Free and YouTube immediately flagged it as copyright music.

I'm not too sure if their "detector robot" just tags music that sounds like commercial but it did get this one wrong! Multiple emails and disputes still didn't get me anywhere so I just gave up and now use whatever the bride happens to use for her walk down the aisle. It can be a CD, a 4 piece string quartet or even bagpipes and YT nails them all as copyright so I live with the ads. I was under the impression that really old stuff like the Bridal March was public domain but it seems that some enterprising publisher now has the rights to it so they get income from any wedding ceremony that occurs. At least the YT one is a workable solution

I have always wondered if bride's need to get permission to use their aisle song at the ceremony during a civil wedding in a park ..I guess being in public and in front of a group of guests it is classed as a public performance?? Anyone know if the bride is required to do anything?

Chris

Noa Put · May 26th, 2014, 04:41 AM

Quote:

I have always wondered if bride's need to get permission to use their aisle song at the ceremony during a civil wedding in a park ..I guess being in public and in front of a group of guests it is classed as a public performance?? Anyone know if the bride is required to do anything?

I"m pretty sure they should pay for playing a song in church for their wedding but I"m also pretty sure noone ever will pay it or even mention it to any music rights organisation, at least not around these parts.

Dave Partington · May 26th, 2014, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

I was under the impression that really old stuff like the Bridal March was public domain

The original composition, perhaps, but each new arrangement brings new copyright as does each new recording. It's a mess, a total mess, but some would argue it's the only way people can get paid for their work.

Some world wide licensing agreements would be awesome but I fear will never happen. YouTube is about as close as it gets at this time.

Dave Partington · May 26th, 2014, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I"m pretty sure they should pay for playing a song in church for their wedding but I"m also pretty sure noone ever will pay it or even mention it to any music rights organisation, at least not around these parts.

In the UK each and every church needs to pay a copyright license fee each year to cover music played during ceremonies.

Rob Cantwell · May 26th, 2014, 06:03 AM

i've had music that wasn't tagged/challenged or whatever, some of it was from a CD, some was live. On the other hand I've had a good few that was - tend to delete these. I dont post wedding vids much because of this.

One video i uploaded was of this years St Patrick's Day parade, they objected to two tracks portions being played by the participants, actually two different dance groups, YouTube removed the the whole 22 minutes of the audio of the vid, I eventually deleted it and re-uploaded with the two offending tracks removed, it wasn't made clear who exactly complained? The songs were How Long Will I Love You Ellie Goulding and "Trumpets" by Jason Derulo, the unusual thing is, that there's lots of uploads featuring these two songs and artists.
I have no idea how YouTube adjudicate what is a breach and what is not! I think it's a whole hit and miss affair.

I've had some videos with backing tracks flagged as not available in Germany, obviously they have a different set of copyright laws there.

May 25th, 2014, 06:57 AM	#1
Brendan McElwaine New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 15	Youtube and Copyright Due to the new restrictions on Vimeo and in view of the fact I'm not a fan of most of the music on the royalty free sites I have been considering what my options are. If I upload a clip to Youtube and it contains a song which I don't have the rights to it will be flagged as containing 3rd party content, ads will be placed on it and it will remain viewable. According to the link below "In most cases, getting a Content ID claim isn’t a bad thing for your YouTube channel. It just means, 'Hey, we found some material in your video that’s owned by someone else.' It’s up to copyright owners to decide whether or not others can reuse their original material. In many cases, copyright owners allow the use of their content in YouTube videos in exchange for putting ads on those videos." https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6013276?hl=en So my question is, is my use of the used song now legitimate? If so, what are the downsides to using Youtube other than ads appearing over the clips?

May 25th, 2014, 08:45 AM	#2
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Youtube and Copyright Hi Brendan They not only detect songs you have added but also songs in the background so unless your footage is totally music free you will get ads or sometimes they might make the video not visible in some countries. I gave up using vimeo years ago as their servers and mirrors are useless and constantly buffer! Sure, the quality is nice but if 30 secs of video plays and then stops the bride will lose interest and move on! That's why I use YouTube only. At least brides can click the link and it plays from start to end without stalling! If you have to have a bit of music (even from say, a PA system) and YT tags you, 99% of the time the video will be quite playable and usable and the viewer can easily close the ad window too! However NO you do not now have legitimate use of the song at all ..it's still copyright and an ad will go up and usually that's all that happens and the copyright holder earns a bit of cash! Trying to get permission to use music online is not only a minefield but also an exercise in futility and also if you did manage to get copyright permission you couldn't afford it. I just upload to You Tube and let them do their thing as far as copyright is concerned...in rare cases yes they might remove the music or ask you to but in 99% of cases it's just an ad. Chris

May 25th, 2014, 01:51 PM	#4
Arthur Gannis Major Player Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 504	Re: Youtube and Copyright This music copyright thing has never been a problem for me. For well over 40 years I have been putting popular songs on the videos for my clients. Songs come from purchased LP's , CD's and such. The songs are not resold by me. They are not used for commercial purposes. I have paid for them, or should I say my clients have paid for them, as I used THEIR $$$ to buy the music. The videos are not aired or put over the net by me. The clients choose the songs and they also pay for them by bought CD's fro which I have a collection. Every time I buy CD's I keep the receipt as proof of LEGAL purchase and ownership by myself/client. Also when a DJ plays music in the reception, I consider it AMBIENT sound/noise that my camera captures without being MY request to the DJ to play those songs. The songs were selected and put there by the DJ. He/she should have the roylalties taken care of as he/she is in the music business, not me, I am in the camera business. If the artists do not want me to use their material, then they should find a way to block/ cloak/ prevent/ encrypt/ the material to those who capture ( not copy intentionally) the music in any form emitted to any capturing device/apparatus/camera. There was such a thing as copyguard/Macrovision, remember ?? If the artists cannot come up with a way to copyguard or recordguard their stuff as it propagates from a loudspeaker, then it is not my problem. I did not put that noise up there.

May 25th, 2014, 02:08 PM	#5
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: Youtube and Copyright Then there's this perspective: A Fair(y) Use Tale - YouTube And this: Margaret Gould Stewart: How YouTube thinks about copyright \| Talk Video \| TED.com

May 25th, 2014, 10:52 PM	#7
Nigel Barker Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK Posts: 3,531	Re: Youtube and Copyright I believe that if YouTube does not remove the music track & just puts ads on that the usage IS legitimised. The rights holder is able to insist on removal & the fact that they haven't means they have given a de facto licence. The rights holder could hardly make a claim for damages if they have not only allowed the use but even benefited monetarily from the ad revenue.

May 26th, 2014, 02:43 AM	#9
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,015	Re: Youtube and Copyright Im in a tribute band here in the UK and thought it quite nice that one of our videos was flagged as having copyright belonging to the original band. So our sound is close enough to the original that they get the small sums generated. It's a compliment in a way? Good for ads? So close to the original even YouTube didn't notice it wasn't the original artiste .

May 26th, 2014, 04:23 AM	#11
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Youtube and Copyright I did a commercial video for the Government here a few years back on their electric car fleet and also an online manual for drivers using them. In the interests of copyright I decided to use a SmartSound track which is Royalty Free and YouTube immediately flagged it as copyright music. I'm not too sure if their "detector robot" just tags music that sounds like commercial but it did get this one wrong! Multiple emails and disputes still didn't get me anywhere so I just gave up and now use whatever the bride happens to use for her walk down the aisle. It can be a CD, a 4 piece string quartet or even bagpipes and YT nails them all as copyright so I live with the ads. I was under the impression that really old stuff like the Bridal March was public domain but it seems that some enterprising publisher now has the rights to it so they get income from any wedding ceremony that occurs. At least the YT one is a workable solution I have always wondered if bride's need to get permission to use their aisle song at the ceremony during a civil wedding in a park ..I guess being in public and in front of a group of guests it is classed as a public performance?? Anyone know if the bride is required to do anything? Chris

May 26th, 2014, 06:03 AM	#15
Rob Cantwell Major Player Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Tipperary, Ireland Posts: 624	Re: Youtube and Copyright i've had music that wasn't tagged/challenged or whatever, some of it was from a CD, some was live. On the other hand I've had a good few that was - tend to delete these. I dont post wedding vids much because of this. One video i uploaded was of this years St Patrick's Day parade, they objected to two tracks portions being played by the participants, actually two different dance groups, YouTube removed the the whole 22 minutes of the audio of the vid, I eventually deleted it and re-uploaded with the two offending tracks removed, it wasn't made clear who exactly complained? The songs were How Long Will I Love You Ellie Goulding and "Trumpets" by Jason Derulo, the unusual thing is, that there's lots of uploads featuring these two songs and artists. I have no idea how YouTube adjudicate what is a breach and what is not! I think it's a whole hit and miss affair. I've had some videos with backing tracks flagged as not available in Germany, obviously they have a different set of copyright laws there. __________________ http://www.robertcantwell.com