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-   -   Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/525160-anyone-doing-no-disks-delivery-yet.html)

Chris Harding September 30th, 2014 06:44 AM

Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Guys

I know this has been a previous topic on "what the brides gets from you" but I'm curious to know if anyone yet has completely dropped supplying any sort of disk set to the bride and has stuck with either a USB drive, media player, total cloud based or similar.

If you have, how do you get over the fact that the grandparents are probably still low-tech and at best have an LCD TV and a cheap DVD player and often no computer at all.

It would be nice to know if anyone has permanently forsaken any type of disk in favour of other media and how it's working out with brides?

Chris

Robert Benda September 30th, 2014 08:10 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I just started. Black River Imaging offers a DVD style printed case but with USB holder inside. I like the idea of future proof.

So now my main offering(s) are one nice case with USB, highlight video online.

DVD-USB Storage | Black River Imaging

Steve Burkett September 30th, 2014 08:51 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
On my Preference Form, the couple have an option for their initial copy as either DVD, Bluray or USB. I would say more took up the USB over the Bluray this year, though DVD is still the most popular. Most of my packages have 2nd, 3rd or 4th copies depending on size of package, and they are all DVD, so each couple will usually have a DVD too. One couple who had my basic package selected USB and didn't ask for copies. Their choice. A physical copy will still be with us, but I wonder how long with TV's turning into computers will we see a move towards digital copies being standard.

Clive McLaughlin September 30th, 2014 09:06 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I've prepared a survey to go out to my 2015 clients. One of the questions is 'Would you choose a USB option if it were available?'.

Will let you know the feedback!

Noa Put September 30th, 2014 09:19 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I think usb stick with HD files is something you can deliver at any time but not delivering dvd's is a risk, I have had one client last year who wasn't interested in the dvd's, they had lots of Apple stuff at home and where streaming their content to several devices but not everyone is so technological "advanced". Every other client want's dvd, every household has a dvd player and in lesser extent a blu-ray player. I see dvd's still being asked for for many years to come.

Danny O'Neill September 30th, 2014 09:26 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
2 Attachment(s)
We give our couples 3 copies. They can choose DVD, Blu-Ray or USB. Whatever combination they like.

All our couples take at least one copy on USB, some have even selected all USB which means no disk at all.

We did a survey and most still wanted a DVD copy so they can take it to nans house. Our more affluent customers simply buy Nan a whole new TV :)

Aindreas Lynch September 30th, 2014 09:44 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I've tried to eliminate DVD completely and only either do USB or Digital Download but unfortunately it hasn't worked and 80% are still coming back to me looking for a DVD as they or their parents can't play the MP4 files I give them.

From now on I am going to give them One USB and One DVD and see how that goes.

Daniel Latimer September 30th, 2014 10:21 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Mediazilla (https://mediazilla.com) is coming out with a web based solution. Will be interesting to see how that plays out and if brides enjoy it enough to replace DVDs.

Max Palmer September 30th, 2014 10:35 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
For those of you doing "digital download" are you using that to have your clients download their full day footage? Or just short films?

Dave Partington September 30th, 2014 10:40 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aindreas Lynch (Post 1863109)
I've tried to eliminate DVD completely and only either do USB or Digital Download but unfortunately it hasn't worked and 80% are still coming back to me looking for a DVD as they or their parents can't play the MP4 files I give them.

From now on I am going to give them One USB and One DVD and see how that goes.

The delivery of one DVD is as bad as three in my book, you still have to go through the work of creating the menus, transcoding to MPEG2, checking it all works etc. That's not a 10 minute job and time is money.

For the ones I delivered as download only (and one was USB only) they were made aware that anyone with a Windows computer can use Movie Maker to take the HD file and make their own DVDs.

Sure the downscaling is crap compared to what we can achieve using better software, but it means they could make their own DVDs for parents etc, and it saved me effectively half a day of creating the DVD. There were plenty happy with that solution since it meant they could play their own wedding on their TV via USB stick in full HD.

I shot my last wedding a couple of weeks ago and I'm glad I'm not going to have to deal with all this anymore!

Clive McLaughlin October 1st, 2014 01:15 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
No way I would offer both USB and DVD. It would be one or the other. Last thing I want to do is render every file in two formats and resolutions!

I want to go down the USB route, but I'm still trying to find the right product for me.

A few of my competitors do the wooden USB and wooden boxes so I'm trying to avoid that and be different.

Danny O'Neill October 1st, 2014 02:23 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Problem with wooden boxes is they cost as fortune to posts in the UK :)

Multiple formats isnt an issue for us. We use Vegasaur for Sony Vegas. When I finshed a project we just use the Transcoder component to say "Render this project using this template". The template produces DVD, Blu-ray and USB/online formats at the click of a button. At the end of each day I kick off the render and its all done by the time I get back in the office. We then only produce the disk formats based on what they choose. If they go all USB then the cost of media is higher but there are no menus to prepare.

It's the dream but right now people still want a choice.

Clive McLaughlin October 1st, 2014 02:43 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Must check out Vegasaur...

Roger Gunkel October 1st, 2014 05:06 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
All my finished product rendering is done at the end of the day and overnight, so I have no problem preparing a disc and a usb without taking time out of my day. I have only ever had one request for bluray and see it as a limited format, always delivering hd if requested, on USB.

I think it will be many years before dvd is no longer required as it is a virtually universal format.

Roger

Chris Harding October 1st, 2014 05:15 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
One of my contacts on Linked-in said he was using a "video book" made in the UK too and they are essentially a battery powered between 7" and 10.5" LCD screen bound into a hard cover book ...you have no menu as such but there are buttons on the page to allow you have all the usual video controls. It is supposed to be full HD and of course fully portable which would solve any issues with taking it with you when you visit friends. He said it was a big hit with Grannies too.

The concept is to give the bride much the same as the photog supllies. A custom album/coffee table book but instead when the open the cover the video starts playing. One would probably get away with a 10" screen but I would suspect audio might be the downfall here. I must admit I like the idea! It's a high "perceived value" item compared to a little USB and I would suspect that one could surely plug an HDMI cable into one's TV system for the bigger picture but it still works if the grandparents still have a VHS player and CRT TV !!

I really do like the idea of giving the bride something different and something that looks "worth the money" ..My issue with say, a cloud based system is that the bride pays anything between $2000 and $10,000 and all she gets is a link??? I'm sure a big tissue lined box with a full HD player inside that works when you open the cover is still clever ... sort of like opening the biggest Christmas pressie first cos it has to be the most exciting !!

Chris

Clive McLaughlin October 1st, 2014 05:23 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Here's a question - Is there no way these days to create some sort of autoplay interface that would act like a menu would on a DVD.

I remember at uni, doing my media course we did something like this with the (now defunct) Macromedia Director.

It would feel nicer than just a folder with a few files in it...

Noa Put October 1st, 2014 05:41 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
If the client has a mediacentre like "XBMC" can't you just provide a image for each file you deliver so when they browse through the menu your films show up as images like this?:
http://wiki.xbmc.org/images/5/5b/XBMC_home.jpg

Chris Harding October 1st, 2014 05:57 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Noa

The bad word there is "IF" ..One can also say IF the bride has a DVD player, BD player, media player and a USB enabled TV ... distribution can really be any format you like as she can play them all!!

What one needs is a solution that any bride can watch her wedding regardless of what tech level or gear she has at home

What would you do if a bride says she has a cherished CRT TV that her Dad gave her with a VHS player ...and she hates computers and doesn't use a mobile phone ....THEN what ???

I know that's highly unlikely but various people have various levels of technology. My dear sister-in-law has no computer in the house so USB would be no use to her and her DVD player and older LCD TV...(luckily her sons are already married!)

Chris

Noa Put October 1st, 2014 06:06 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

What would you do if a bride says she has a cherished CRT TV that her Dad gave her with a VHS player ...and she hates computers and doesn't use a mobile phone ....THEN what ???
That would be simple, she had to find another videographer as I don't do vhs, or she could buy a dvdplayer or new tv. As far as I know there doesn't exist a deliverable digital file that has HD quality with included menus that plays 100% in every household. Currenly delivering dvd's and a usb stick which includes the HD files in a mp4 format has a 100% playback chance. Also I think the possibility of a young couple getting married only having a vhs player is practically non existent, if they can afford a videographer then I think getting a 30 euro dvdplayer shouldn't be an issue either.

Actually I don"t see why it is up to us to decide to not deliver dvd's anymore? Because it's easier, less work? As I see it it's our task to deliver a client something they can enjoy where-ever they go and by supplying digital HD files only there is a large possibility they can't play it when they visit family.

Clive McLaughlin October 1st, 2014 06:25 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
There's a lot of talk about grandparents and USB. Truthfully, in my country, I'd suggest that 70% of grandparents don't have DVD players either.

Are 70/80 year old more high-tech in the rest of the world?

In NI they don't generally watch films on dvd or TV series boxsets...

You're lucky if they can work a digital TV guide.

Danny O'Neill October 1st, 2014 07:00 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin (Post 1863214)
Here's a question - Is there no way these days to create some sort of autoplay interface that would act like a menu would on a DVD.

I remember at uni, doing my media course we did something like this with the (now defunct) Macromedia Director.

It would feel nicer than just a folder with a few files in it...

The problem you have is the device it plays on needs to then be able to play those menus. Macromedia may work on a PC with shockwave or flash installed but not on a TV.

This is why disks are still pretty much king. They are simple, you pop them in and they work with menus and everything as designed. Its all about standards and at the moment there is no digital delivery standard as such. even if I buy a movie from itunes with loads of bonus content its simply a series of individual movies you hit play on.

So far, touch wood, weve had zero problems with USB delivery. The drives are in FAT32 format so will play in any and every device or TV. The movies are MP4 with a high but still modest bitrate to ensure compatability. It costs us around 7 per stick vs 20p per disk but customers love it.

I think the problem with online only is that so many wont have the knowledge to get that film onto their TV, the biggest and best display in most peoples homes.

We will happily go with the latest and greatest, as long as its simple. If we could deliver though itunes so it can be easily played on an Apple TV then sign me up ;)

Tariq Peter October 1st, 2014 07:16 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I have started offering it this year and it has really taken off. Like most clients they my call around and say how many DVD's do you offer, my first response is I don't give you old fashioned DVD's anymore and then explain how the trend is USB. It gives them flexibility to share it friends and family, they are not losing any quality and it's future proof.

Noa Put October 1st, 2014 07:58 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

It gives them flexibility to share it friends and family, they are not losing any quality and it's future proof.
Do they take a ipad or a laptop with them to all their friends and family so they all will have to watch on a 10 or 15 inch screen? I agree that supplying the digital HD files is always better then just dvd's but you are limiting playback options considerably once they go out their house and to their family/friends as I can't imagine that every household has a tv that supports usb mp4 files.

Otoh it might be better to deliver digital files only and have dvd's as an option so the client can choose whether they want dvd instead of us telling they don't need them.

Chris Harding October 1st, 2014 05:46 PM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I have yet to find any bride who has an issue with quality, resolution and any technical considerations. All she really wants to do is see how pretty she looked and how pretty her bridesmaids looked ..whether it's on a 100" TV or on her iPad as long as she can show it off she is happy. We get way too tied up with technical issues wanting to provide stuff that is cross compatible with various systems and all the bride wants is something that works. She really couldn't care less how you achieve it.

I still think these are brilliant for brides ....


Chris

Tim Bakland October 1st, 2014 07:14 PM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Latimer (Post 1863115)
Mediazilla (https://mediazilla.com) is coming out with a web based solution. Will be interesting to see how that plays out and if brides enjoy it enough to replace DVDs.

I heard about this recently, too, endorsed by Meg Simone. Would love to hear what people think.

Kyle Root October 1st, 2014 07:21 PM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1863304)
I have yet to find any bride who has an issue with quality, resolution and any technical considerations. All she really wants to do is see how pretty she looked and how pretty her bridesmaids looked ..whether it's on a 100" TV or on her iPad as long as she can show it off she is happy. We get way too tied up with technical issues wanting to provide stuff that is cross compatible with various systems and all the bride wants is something that works. She really couldn't care less how you achieve it.

This is the crux of the matter. This has certainly been true in my experiences.

As hard as I try to deliver a quality product, there have been instances where audio or video have not been up to the standards I would have liked. But in cases where I've had to use that in a final video, no one has ever complained about it. These aren't scripted events and you get what you can get.

As far as delivery is concerned, I started using Vimeo Plus a few weeks ago, and am going to move toward a delivery format on that network. We'll see how well that goes over. lol

Chris Harding October 1st, 2014 09:42 PM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Kyle

I think we all try our very best to give the client the best but there is also the "too much" syndrome too. One local videographer mentioned to me that he spend 2 FULL days editing and perfecting a 2 minute segment of video for the bride so it's also important to waste hours, days or even weeks getting it "perfect" because the bride's perfect and out perfect are many miles apart. It's still a business and we have to make a profit so we have to be able to say to ourselves "That's good enough" otherwise we just don't make a profit!

Online supply is of course an attractive concept BUT what about the bride's point of view? Giving her a piece of paper or email with a link on it to me screams to me "Is this all I get for the $2000 I paid the video guy" Brides like value for money and online delivery has very little perceived value if no physical product is supplied. Arrive on her doorstep with a huge gift box with DVD's inside and she is over the moon. I guess there must be ways to get over this and I have seen guys here who provide (apart from the online delivery) a DVD set along with popcorn and movie tickets ...that all might seem corny but the raises the value of your product to great heights.

Chris

Noa Put October 2nd, 2014 01:28 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1863304)
I still think these are brilliant for brides ...

That looks cool, any idea of price and who offers it? I only wonder how the sound is like. Another thing to consider is warranty, over here you get 2 year standard but if that "book" would malfunction the couples would come back to you and you have to take it further up with the manufacturer. A 7 euro usb stick would be easy to replace but I imagine this book is not cheap so it could be a lot of hassle getting it replaced if it is not reliable.

Chris Harding October 2nd, 2014 02:06 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Noa

They are not cheap sadly but they have the advantage of open the cover and watch the video... around GBP 99.00 each ...then again you have to look at the perceived value by brides compared to a USB drive ..lift your package price by say $150 and you are covered cost wise and the bride has a physical project she can take off the book shelf along with her wedding album and sit down and show it off much the same as she would show off your photo album.

Of course you can do much the same with an android tablet or even cheaper, a photoframe. Tablets are around the same price but have the hassle of no "book format" that one would have to get done by a printer plus they do require a boot up and the bride would have to use the touch screen to find her wedding etc etc (unless you can program a tablet to start and instantly play a video.

Photo Frames in a book style sleeve work better but for some reason I cannot find any that don't need you to plug in an adapter to power it. A portable photoframe would be cheap and brilliant!!

There are plenty of suppliers ..just search for LCD brochures ..they are used extensively in the commercial field so the client opens the brochure and your promo video plays immediately. They must be reliable if big companies use them?

I researched manufacturers and they are cheap as chips US$15.00 each from China ...the big issue of course is their minimum order quantity is 500 units and they come blank too.

It's not really an issue on the price as long as you cover your costs within your package price ...I would be quite happy to ramp my package prices up $150 per wedding if that would increase sales and get me the bride who books me cos she loves the concept!!

Chris

Noa Put October 2nd, 2014 03:57 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I never heared of that before, looks interesting but the screen size is tiny and it's not they will have with them at all times. You would have to increase your prices as I don't think they would pay extra for it.

Chris Harding October 2nd, 2014 08:34 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Noa

Each page is 8.5" wide and 7" down so an open book measures 17" across and 7" down. On the right hand page is an embedded 7" LCD display which admittedly isn't that big but our guys here go up to 10" displays. Just remember being like a digital photo album you would tend to place it on your lap as you would when paging through a regular photo album so your eyes are only 15" away (unless you are very tall) from the screen so probably a 7" screen would be enough to see most detail.

Most images in photo albums are 10cm x 15cm prints (6x4) which also have a diagonal of 7" so it would be much the same as looking at a regular photo which people are quite happy to do.

I'm not sure how close (or far) one should view a 10" LCD from but some say it's the diagonal x 1.6 so on your lap a 9" screen is actually the correct size for viewing.

Chris

Roger Gunkel October 3rd, 2014 03:58 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
There are a large number of Chinese suppliers offering these at the moment, from business cards to photo books with built in screen. As you say Chris, most supply blanks in bulk only, but there is a gradual take up in end suppliers from other countries including the UK, that will complete the work.

I have a couple running up quotes for me at the moment, although the biggest cost seems likely to be the cost of the printing and preparation, even for a generic bulk order. I am interested in seeing if the unit price can be brought down to a similar cost to other wedding luxuries such as acrylic prints and large wall canvases etc. If so, then I can see see the video photo album being something that will capture the imagination of Brides over the next few years. Options include up to 4Gb memory, and add on buttons for volume, forward/rewind and file selection. Screens at the moment go up to 10".

It would be something that would put those of us offering video and photo packages in an advantageous position, with a glossy leather bound photo book including a built in video screen.

Roger

Noa Put October 3rd, 2014 04:22 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Quote:

It would be something that would put those of us offering video and photo packages in an advantageous position, with a glossy leather bound photo book including a built in video screen.
I have mentioned it before but I think a combo of photo and video is even a greater risk, if the build in screen would malfunction you would have to redo the entire album, so also have the photo's printed again. If you just would have a screen where you could slide in a photo on the front of the album if anything goes wrong you just replace it with a new album where you copy the film on and replace the photo but a entire photoalbum is another matter because you need to get it reprinted as well and that would be a costly matter.

Chris Harding October 3rd, 2014 06:59 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
As far as I know you get "generic" units made for you. That's what Martin does in the UK. The front cover would simply say "Our Wedding" and any photos are not actually printed like a coffee table book but photos are inserted much the same as a generic photo album so in the event of a failure you could easily grab a new book, upload the video and slip in an existing photo on the inside page. The only printing is the initial cover design which stays the same. If a unit does go faulty I'm pretty sure your supplier would be able to just replace the screen and controls as the printing side is purely decorative and the screen/buttons are modular and integral with the electronics.

They must be pretty reliable as big name companies use them as video brochures ..if they failed miserably I'm sure they wouldn't be used.

They probably would be more attractive to the budget bride who wants good value for her money. The bride who has Daddy spring for a 6 man video team staring at $15K would no doubt consider it cheesy as her perceived value is the prestige of have a Hollywood style crew film her wedding.

I still like the idea so keep us posted on UK prices Roger. I will ask some of our local guys if they would do a generic one with reasonably small quantities at an affordable price.

Chris

Roger Gunkel October 3rd, 2014 11:19 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I agree with you Chris that screen replacement should be pretty straight forward but I would like to find out more about it. I'm also looking at the possibility of a generic video album with a removeable inner photobook.

This has also encouraged me to look at slimline mp4 players which might be able to be built into a hard covered album style case. As some of the players have hdmi output to plug into a tv for full hd viewing, it could be another flexible alternative delivery system.

Roger

Chris Harding October 3rd, 2014 07:51 PM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
Hi Roger

My local guy seems quite reasonable and his quote is below :

Chris



Thank you for your enquiry. We would be very glad to work with you.

Model VGC-070 Video Brochure 7inch TFT/LCD screen

format A5, A4, 210x210mm

7 screen

2GB Memory

3 buttons (play/pause, volume (+), volume (-)

1200mA Li-Ion re-chargeable battery

4C custom offset custom print (matte or gloss)



50pcs @ AUD $56.00/pc Ex-GST

100pcs @ AUD$48.00/pc Ex-GST

*** Includes all shipping costs

Nigel Barker October 4th, 2014 04:22 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
The video album is great as a novelty gimmick or freebie but I would be really nervous about offering this as the main deliverable. There is just too much that could go wrong & leave the client with a dead grey piece of plastic. Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if the hardware were made by Sony or Apple but do you really want to be in the hardware support business?

Noa Put October 4th, 2014 04:29 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I think it's the same as supplying a cheap photoalbum where the pages might come loose over time vs a very expensive one that will last you a lifetime, then you might have to slide in a ipad in a cover or another expensive tablet from a established supplier to at least have some peace of mind during the warranty period but I doubt if you would find any clients that would pay for that.

Roger Gunkel October 4th, 2014 11:06 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I think that whatever format you use for delivery, there is always the possibility of failure. Discs get scratched and they are left with a useless piece of ink filled plastic, usb drives and sd cards can fail, or even be disrupted by strong magnetic fields, online storage can go bust, servers might pack up etc. Video photo albums would be no exception, which is why it is always good to have a secondary backup.

The video album is just another alternative approach to supplying an attractive product.

Roger

Chris Harding October 4th, 2014 11:42 AM

Re: Anyone doing a "no disks" delivery yet?
 
I would still supply DVD's to the bride as I normally do but as a primary backup and home theatre use. I think the video books have HUGE perceived value which would give you an edge over competitors and I feel the bride would tend to show it off more as it's much easier to look at ..grab the book and open it and view ...the concept is easy and gratifying plus it's fast to reach for and view compared to putting a DVD in the player, turning on the TV getting people seated etc etc ... this can be shown to a prospective bride one on one while the rest of the family do other things. "Hey, take a look at my wedding: not "Now everyone sit down while I dim the lights and show you my wedding" ... There is also a spin off with corporate clients who want a video brochure ..you shoot and supply the brochure in one turnkey operation

Chris


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