What matters to you? - Camera Selection

Noa Put · March 2nd, 2016, 02:34 AM

Even a dualslot is not failsafe, I had a "rebuild media" error on both cards simultaneously during my last wedding shoot, there was no dataloss as the camera did rebuild the data for whatever reason but when this message appears you cannot shoot anymore until you do the rebuild which requires going into the menu and select that option. I had 2 fast cards in use at that moment and shot in a 50mbs codec so speed was not the bottleneck but they where 2 different brands (kingston and sandisc) and 2 different sizes (64gb en 128gb) which might have caused the problem, I continued to shoot with one card the rest of the day without any issues. Will most likely get me 2 identical jvc approved cards for a next weddingshoot.

Anthony McErlean · March 2nd, 2016, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Even a dualslot is not failsafe, .

Yes, that's true, I wouldn't like to depend on it for backup. I use a Nanoflash as backup, how much more reliable this method is, I don't know, but I just feel it is, compared to in camera dual slots:)

Andrew Maclaurin · March 2nd, 2016, 05:00 AM

Noa, that must have been scary!
I usually shoot with 1 camera. Maybe a 700d as a wide back up if possible. I always use the same brand and card when using dual slot recording. I won't mix a 16gb with a 32gb nor one that records 95mb/s and one that records 60mb/s.
I once had a problem on a 7D with a CF card. costly to fix.
With the dual slot cards FCPX once went haywire and erased the card rather than importing it. Luckily I had the other card!
Anyway, I'm just trying to contribute to the discussion although I guess we've all gone through this before!

Noa Put · March 2nd, 2016, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Noa, that must have been scary!

Well, I was about 3 hours into the wedding and all went fine until then and luckily I was not shooting anything that really mattered at that moment because it took me about 5 minutes to find out how to rebuild the data on the card. I then rebuild the data on one card but took the second card out and didn't use it anymore that day. After that rebuild all was fine again and nothing lost but that moment made me age a few years :)

Phil Stanley · March 2nd, 2016, 06:42 AM

Has anyone got a preferred brand of card, I generally use sandisk extreme pro, the thought of card failure worries me.

Phil

Anthony McErlean · March 2nd, 2016, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Stanley

Has anyone got a preferred brand of card, I generally use sandisk extreme pro, the thought of card failure worries me.

Phil

Even Sandisk Extreme Pro cards and get corrupt Phil, I think some sort of external backup is best but what one.

Peter Rush · March 2nd, 2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Panasonic has 2 powerzoom lenses that I know of that can be controlled with the zoomrocker from the jvc gy ls300 but they are quite slow lenses, it is however possible to zoom with any prime lens on that same camera which gives you about double the focal length.

Otherwise I also zoom manually on the lens, I only use the zoom to reframe, 99% of the time I will cut the zoommotion out in post.

Sony also has E-Mount lenses with powerzoom

Steve Siegel · July 14th, 2016, 07:10 AM

Serious wildlife videographers who need the best telephoto possible have been left out in the cold in the past 5 years. Interchangeable lenses are a must. A small sensor (1/2 inch or less) is important, because your telephoto comes from the crop factor more than the lens. Frame rates of at least 120 fps have been shown to be the threshold for really good-looking slow motion. And, or course, 4K is essential.

All of these features (except the interchangeable lenses) are available in little consumer type cameras. You may be able to find them in super expensive models. Why a manufacturer doesn't put them in a $3,000-7,000 range instrument is beyond my understanding. The old Sony PMW-300 (which I use) is the closest thing available, but it's really outdated. Digiscoping is not a solution.

I think it's an example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all the squeaking is coming from users who want huge sensors. So that's what the manufacturers give us. Great for humans. Not great for warblers.

Nigel Barker · July 15th, 2016, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Siegel

Serious wildlife videographers who need the best telephoto possible have been left out in the cold in the past 5 years. Interchangeable lenses are a must. A small sensor (1/2 inch or less) is important, because your telephoto comes from the crop factor more than the lens. Frame rates of at least 120 fps have been shown to be the threshold for really good-looking slow motion. And, or course, 4K is essential.

All of these features (except the interchangeable lenses) are available in little consumer type cameras. You may be able to find them in super expensive models. Why a manufacturer doesn't put them in a $3,000-7,000 range instrument is beyond my understanding. The old Sony PMW-300 (which I use) is the closest thing available, but it's really outdated. Digiscoping is not a solution.

I think it's an example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all the squeaking is coming from users who want huge sensors. So that's what the manufacturers give us. Great for humans. Not great for warblers.

Doesn't the Sony RX10III do all that you want? It's a 1" sensor & doesn't have an interchangeable lens but does have the equivalent of 24-600mm at F/2.8-4.0 It has 4K & 240fps at 1080p. Lots of other neat features like excellent stabilisation.

Steve Siegel · July 15th, 2016, 11:03 AM

Hi Nigel,

Thanks for the reply. No interchangeable lens and 1' sensors are deal-killers on that one. Equivalent
focal length of at least 2000mm is what bird-guys need.

Mark Watson · July 15th, 2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Siegel

Serious wildlife videographers who need the best telephoto possible have been left out in the cold in the past 5 years. Interchangeable lenses are a must. A small sensor (1/2 inch or less) is important, because your telephoto comes from the crop factor more than the lens. Frame rates of at least 120 fps have been shown to be the threshold for really good-looking slow motion. And, or course, 4K is essential.

All of these features (except the interchangeable lenses) are available in little consumer type cameras. You may be able to find them in super expensive models. Why a manufacturer doesn't put them in a $3,000-7,000 range instrument is beyond my understanding. The old Sony PMW-300 (which I use) is the closest thing available, but it's really outdated. Digiscoping is not a solution.

I think it's an example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all the squeaking is coming from users who want huge sensors. So that's what the manufacturers give us. Great for humans. Not great for warblers.

Not a bird watcher, but I've got the XL-H1A (yep, HDV). There's a 7.2x magnification factor when using EF lenses with the adapter. I think it can make good quality video still today but I only pull it out a couple times a year now, mostly because I have the 6X lens besides the 20X stock lens, and the 6X is nice. If you get the XL-H1S with the full HD output BNC ("jack pack"), then just hook up an external recorder and you're in business. I still see them on e-bay now and then. If you get an external recorder, you not only get the higher quality output but no tape to capture, and if it has a screen, that would be great because the viewfinder is really, really, really not up to snuff.

Mark

P.S. Also has 3 CCD sensors.... so practically a "global shutter".

Steve Siegel · July 17th, 2016, 09:43 AM

Hey Mark,

You're absolutely right about the XL-H1. Great camera (lousy viewfinder). I went through two of them in the mid 2000s.

Mark Watson · July 18th, 2016, 07:36 AM

Steve,

I guess if I were to take up wildlife filming now, I'd take a look at the Panasonic GH4 micro four-thirds camera. I see some on here are using that camera with the Sigma 150-600mm and tele-converter.
So, if my math is right, with a 2.3x crop at 4K on the camera, with a 1.4X TC and using a Metabones Canon EF FF to MFT Adapter with that 150-600mm EF lens, you get 1,932mm in 35mm equivalent.

Camera $1,298 + Sigma 150-300mm Contemporary with TC-1401 $1289 + Metabones Canon EF FF to MFT Adapter (MB EF-M43-BT2) $390.82 = $2,977.82.

The Metabones T SpeedBooster Ultra 0.71X Adapter for Canon FF EF-Mount Lens to MFT Mount Camera (MB SPEF M43-BT4) is $642.58, and you will lose some zoom reach, but gain some light.

If you buy the GH4 with the Video Interface Unit, it costs $1,700.

I read that the HDMI port outputs 4:2:2 10-bit, so not sure I'd need the video interface unit. Also, if shooting in 4K for a FHD project, you get to crop in during editing and that gives even more virtual zoom.

I don't know what happens to the 2.3x crop factor when you go to full HD mode for high speed mode shooting though. Maxes out at 96FPS & 100Mbps bit rate. Sounds like a manageable set-up.

Compared to a regular video camera that can shoot 4K and do the high frame rates, this is a pretty inexpensive route to go. I don't think I could find a 1/2" sensor video camera set-up that will let me reach out to 2,000mm for less than $25,000.

I'm about to get my bonus and looking at what I can do with about $4,000, so I thought I'd dig into this wildlife thing a bit, as I haven't tried any of that yet.

Mark

Edit: I found where HD is 2x crop factor and also high frame rate in FHD is really 60p. Higher than 60p suffers image degradation, like it's SD uprezed to HD.

Steve Siegel · July 20th, 2016, 07:58 PM

Mark,

Some interesting ideas. I'll look into this. Thanks.

March 2nd, 2016, 02:34 AM	#46
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Even a dualslot is not failsafe, I had a "rebuild media" error on both cards simultaneously during my last wedding shoot, there was no dataloss as the camera did rebuild the data for whatever reason but when this message appears you cannot shoot anymore until you do the rebuild which requires going into the menu and select that option. I had 2 fast cards in use at that moment and shot in a 50mbs codec so speed was not the bottleneck but they where 2 different brands (kingston and sandisc) and 2 different sizes (64gb en 128gb) which might have caused the problem, I continued to shoot with one card the rest of the day without any issues. Will most likely get me 2 identical jvc approved cards for a next weddingshoot.

March 2nd, 2016, 05:00 AM	#48
Andrew Maclaurin Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 396	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Noa, that must have been scary! I usually shoot with 1 camera. Maybe a 700d as a wide back up if possible. I always use the same brand and card when using dual slot recording. I won't mix a 16gb with a 32gb nor one that records 95mb/s and one that records 60mb/s. I once had a problem on a 7D with a CF card. costly to fix. With the dual slot cards FCPX once went haywire and erased the card rather than importing it. Luckily I had the other card! Anyway, I'm just trying to contribute to the discussion although I guess we've all gone through this before!

March 2nd, 2016, 06:42 AM	#50
Phil Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: London Posts: 148	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Has anyone got a preferred brand of card, I generally use sandisk extreme pro, the thought of card failure worries me. Phil __________________ Phil Stanley

July 14th, 2016, 07:10 AM	#53
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 839	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Serious wildlife videographers who need the best telephoto possible have been left out in the cold in the past 5 years. Interchangeable lenses are a must. A small sensor (1/2 inch or less) is important, because your telephoto comes from the crop factor more than the lens. Frame rates of at least 120 fps have been shown to be the threshold for really good-looking slow motion. And, or course, 4K is essential. All of these features (except the interchangeable lenses) are available in little consumer type cameras. You may be able to find them in super expensive models. Why a manufacturer doesn't put them in a $3,000-7,000 range instrument is beyond my understanding. The old Sony PMW-300 (which I use) is the closest thing available, but it's really outdated. Digiscoping is not a solution. I think it's an example of "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" and all the squeaking is coming from users who want huge sensors. So that's what the manufacturers give us. Great for humans. Not great for warblers.

July 15th, 2016, 11:03 AM	#55
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 839	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Hi Nigel, Thanks for the reply. No interchangeable lens and 1' sensors are deal-killers on that one. Equivalent focal length of at least 2000mm is what bird-guys need.

July 17th, 2016, 09:43 AM	#57
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 839	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Hey Mark, You're absolutely right about the XL-H1. Great camera (lousy viewfinder). I went through two of them in the mid 2000s.

July 18th, 2016, 07:36 AM	#58
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Steve, I guess if I were to take up wildlife filming now, I'd take a look at the Panasonic GH4 micro four-thirds camera. I see some on here are using that camera with the Sigma 150-600mm and tele-converter. So, if my math is right, with a 2.3x crop at 4K on the camera, with a 1.4X TC and using a Metabones Canon EF FF to MFT Adapter with that 150-600mm EF lens, you get 1,932mm in 35mm equivalent. Camera $1,298 + Sigma 150-300mm Contemporary with TC-1401 $1289 + Metabones Canon EF FF to MFT Adapter (MB EF-M43-BT2) $390.82 = $2,977.82. The Metabones T SpeedBooster Ultra 0.71X Adapter for Canon FF EF-Mount Lens to MFT Mount Camera (MB SPEF M43-BT4) is $642.58, and you will lose some zoom reach, but gain some light. If you buy the GH4 with the Video Interface Unit, it costs $1,700. I read that the HDMI port outputs 4:2:2 10-bit, so not sure I'd need the video interface unit. Also, if shooting in 4K for a FHD project, you get to crop in during editing and that gives even more virtual zoom. I don't know what happens to the 2.3x crop factor when you go to full HD mode for high speed mode shooting though. Maxes out at 96FPS & 100Mbps bit rate. Sounds like a manageable set-up. Compared to a regular video camera that can shoot 4K and do the high frame rates, this is a pretty inexpensive route to go. I don't think I could find a 1/2" sensor video camera set-up that will let me reach out to 2,000mm for less than $25,000. I'm about to get my bonus and looking at what I can do with about $4,000, so I thought I'd dig into this wildlife thing a bit, as I haven't tried any of that yet. Mark Edit: I found where HD is 2x crop factor and also high frame rate in FHD is really 60p. Higher than 60p suffers image degradation, like it's SD uprezed to HD. Last edited by Mark Watson; July 18th, 2016 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Updated info.

July 20th, 2016, 07:58 PM	#59
Steve Siegel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Posts: 839	Re: What matters to you? - Camera Selection Mark, Some interesting ideas. I'll look into this. Thanks.