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-   -   Live Event Broadcasting (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/532042-live-event-broadcasting.html)

Chris Harding June 8th, 2016 10:25 PM

Live Event Broadcasting
 
Is anyone here doing live event stream for clients ..the list is endless of course including weddings, seminars, recitals, training and a whole lot more.

The live video concept sees to be attracting a lot of attention and less demand on gear too for events where people cannot attend but would like to participate.

If it's in your portfolio of services, it would be interesting who does what and your setup?

Andrew Smith June 9th, 2016 03:20 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
I do. Matrox Monarch, of course. (plus a venue supplied internet connection)

I mainly send a raw feed out of the main camera for the events that I do. Live switching / multicam costs extra.

Andrew

Nathan Buck June 9th, 2016 06:54 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
I dabbled briefly in live streaming. Just fed capture cards into a PC and that was that. As Andrew says though, switching/mixing costs more!

I did have a look at the Blackmagic ATEM switcher at one point, which may be worth you looking into. They do a 4k and HD version.

Chris Harding June 9th, 2016 07:42 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Thanks Guys

The wedding market here is getting absolutely saturated with every Tom, Dick and Harry who goes to the discount store and buys a camera and then calls himself a "professional wedding videographer" ...some diversification is sorely needed to sort out the men from the boys!! Doing live broadcasts is one way to kill the "I have a Canon 550 D so I'm now a wedding videographer" people who are shooting for beer money.

Andrew? what sort of rate per hour are you getting for conferences??

Andrew Smith June 9th, 2016 08:44 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
I haven't really established a rate yet.

Part of the purchase of the encoder unit came from one of the branches of a community organisation that I am involved with as they really want to have content from the 'big smoke' available to them so that they can in turn run satellite events simultaneously. I simply decided that we really needed the Monarch HDX model (not the HD) and paid in the extra $1000 to make the purchase.

The football match that I posted about earlier (action video streamed through a low bit rate connection) was just me helping a mate out.

I'll get around to sorting out a rate, but just haven't had time to even think about it yet.

Andrew

Billy Horton June 11th, 2016 03:45 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
I do 2 big live events a year and although they could be streamed they're not because the clients don't want to do that for several reasons. Both are 4 camera shoots, live switched, then projected inside the auditorium.

I have 3 Sony cameras and I rent one for the event. I use a Tricaster 40 and all the cabling is SDI over RG6. At least one of the cables is over 200' long. Since the Tricaster 40 is component HD I use Blackmagic SDI -> component converters.

I use the SD output of the Tricaster because it's easier and I convert some of it to RF so that it will carry audio. Some of those cable runs are over 300' but it holds up well. We record everything to HD, though, because there's usually some corrections to be made in the edit before it's put out to DVD.

One of them is really fast paced and sometimes it's hard to keep up with calling the shots and directing the switcher operator. The other is not so fast and it's for 3 nights in a row so a lot of it is the same thing every night.

Chris Harding June 11th, 2016 07:37 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Thanks Billy

I was talking more about smaller events with just a single camera rather than a TV network style multi-camera setup. Basically any event where people cannot make it due to logistics so you take it to them live. I have had a couple of brides already ask me if their wedding ceremony can be streamed so family in the UK can watch it as it happens. I'm sure there is many more events that are broadcast so people not able to be there can see it.

Andrew Smith June 12th, 2016 12:52 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Billy, what were the client's reasons for not wanting it streamed?

Andrew

Donald McPherson June 12th, 2016 07:09 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Chris, Did you see my post earlier. I'm a complete novice. But I got my X70 working with my Sony Xperia.
Maybe not the best. But you can record at the same time and put up a better quality later.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-pxw...ml#post1916239

Chris Harding June 12th, 2016 05:52 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hi Donald

Nope I didn't as I don't really check the X70 forum. Thanks for that and very interesting ..I wonder what bitrate the little Sony phone streams out at?? At this stage we are using the very simple Livestream Broadcast Pro unit which just sits on your camera cold shoe and we connect through 4G too .. the unit streams quite well at 5500kbps so you get a nice image on the other end too. Livestream also creat a cloud copy of your stream so anyone that misses the start of the event can run the DVR side of the player instead of the live side and not miss anything ... the whole system works very well actually and we are looking to use it is hurriedly organised events like funerals or last minute meetings where people who should be there cannot be there due to the small time frame.

Gabe Strong June 13th, 2016 04:10 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Yup, I do live streaming. I even do multicam events....all by myself.
It's not for everyone, but at my first ever TV job, I sometimes had to
run down from directing the live newscast during commercial break
to change the studio camera shots from anchor desk, to weather, to
sports shots......so I'm used to taking on way too much.

Chris Harding June 13th, 2016 04:44 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Thanks Gabe

I promise I'm not stalking you ..I did post on the other side though in response to the 4G question.

Yeah I'm a bit of a "I can do it all" person too .. I often wonder why I took on so much without any help but it's fun being busy!! Besides you don't have to pay anyone else!!

Billy Horton June 13th, 2016 12:55 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith (Post 1916267)
Billy, what were the client's reasons for not wanting it streamed?

Andrew

One is that they actually want people to show up at the event and to experience it, not to watch it on their computer. This is also an event that's been going on for 100 years and I also think they're a little hesitant to make it too technical and lose some of its cultural identity.

The other is that they haven't put any thought into how to monetize the stream, they don't want to let people watch for free because then it would cut into their ticket sales, which is a main source of revenue. I would probably need to do that for them but I'm too busy to do all the legwork then pitch it to them and make it happen. Plus, the venue has limited internet access so they would also have to upgrade (which they probably wouldn't want to do) or I'd have to make arrangements for something else - which again I don't have the time for.

Basically for something like this you need an extra person who is dedicated to the streaming side of things so you'd also need compensation for this, probably from the monetization of the streaming.

Andrew Smith June 14th, 2016 10:03 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
This has been a similar experience to another streamed event that happened years ago. The producers of an expo event went for streaming as an option for registrants.

The streaming aspect was viable and worked, but the consequence was that the actual crowd numbers at the event were halved and the 'vibe' of the event just wasn't the same. They saw the danger associated with this and promptly stopped offering a stream of the event. Everyone has to attend in person now.

This is the very reason I don't allow event streaming to locals for the non-profit that I am involved with. You don't want to risk killing the local turnout for an event you are running.

Andrew

Chris Harding June 15th, 2016 06:30 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
The moment money is involved it does become an issue! We stick with hurriedly organised events that cause some people who want/should attend no be able to simply due to logistics .... Surely something like an expo is a far better experience if you attend in person. Maybe a stream on the first day of an expo to say "see what you are missing" to attract more ticket sales? Too many people nowadays are taking the attitude "We will wait it comes on TV" instead of paying for a live event,

The best logical market still seems to be events where there is no chance of people being able to attend but would love to.

Steven Digges June 17th, 2016 12:10 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hey Chris,

I am surprised to see your using Livestream, only because it is so expensive. I am guessing you must have the "Broadcaster" encoding unit and a basic monthly account? Or do you have enough business to support the premium account at $399.99 a month? I hope it is a lot of business for the later. It also sounds like (here and other posts of yours) that your using a 3/4G usb modem to connect? I would love to here more details of your experience with them.

Everyone: there is a thread in DVINFO announcements where several of us are asking Chris H to dedicate a sub forum for live events, streaming etc. Streaming threads are littered all over the forum as many guys don't know where to post them. If you have not weighed in there please do:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dv-info-...streaming.html

Steve

Andrew Smith June 17th, 2016 01:51 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
The litter of threads will soon/eventually become forum gold. Chris is waiting until there are enough to populate the new section when it is created, rather than create a new section and have it look comparatively empty and desolate.

So keep creating new threads as issues/topics come up. :-)

Andrew

Chris Harding June 17th, 2016 07:16 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hi Steve

I have a couple of mates doing much the same thing and they suggested using Livestream ...What I do like about it is the simplicity of connecting ..The Broadcaster knows where to go and there is no hassles like "you have reached your bandwidth limit" etc etc ... I did look at UStream and it's complicated and all works on how many GIGS you buy. The broadcaster Pro is good value for what we are doing and a lot cheaper than a Teradek unit ... What I do like is I can choose my event the night before the gig and select it on the unit and I'm ready to roll ..Just turn on the unit and it finds the right event, the wifi unit and connects for me while I'm setting up cameras ..too easy!

As far as I can see, the Premium account only offers two extras : embedding and shorter URL's and yes that is pricy since you pay annually (unless you are crazy) I don't need embedding as I send clients to the event URL so they can watch the live stream or if they miss it Livestream also record a DVR version so I'm covered. Being an enthusiastic YouTube user I was thinking of using them but apparently there will be their usual copyright issues if music is detected ...even if it's not from your source !! The Basic account is $499 a year and we are going to share it will a mate on the East Coast so I'd hardly call $20 a month expensive ...

What are others using that are better yet cheaper?

Chris Harding June 17th, 2016 07:23 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
For Interest Steve : Yes I'm at Post #15 on the "Request for a Live Streaming Forum" so Chris Hurd does have my vote to add the forum when he has time.

Sorry I forgot about your other question : Yep I'm using the Broadcaster Pro as it's a lot easier to use and trust compared to the mini broadcaster. Simple HDMI out from my camera to the Pro unit and then yes, we have a Wifi Hotspot unit that connects to either 3G or 4G networks ...it allows us to be portable firstly but the main reason is ADSL 2 over here event at function centres have dismal upload speeds ...At my office my landline based ADSL connection gives me a pathetic 9mbps download and a miserable 1mbps (if I'm lucky) upload so if I stream from home I dare not encode at anything faster than 300/400 kbps!!! My 4G wifi slips in my pocket without any cables and I get 25mbps download and 10mbps upload in our local area near the house but a LOT better elsewhere .. That's 10 X my office upload speed and I can normally stream nicely at 5500kbps and get a sharp end result. The Broadcaster also have USB LTE modem inputs but they are quite fussy about what works and what doesn't and of course ethertnet too ....

Steven Digges June 18th, 2016 12:42 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hey Chris,

Thanks for the info. I must have misread the basic package. I do not consider $499.00 a year expensive either. I consider $399.00 a month for premium very expensive (unless paid annually).

Steve

Chris Harding June 18th, 2016 05:55 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hey Steve

They call it $42 a month which technically comes to $504 but when you pay it's $499 so it's really $41.58 a month ... I have no idea why their "Premium" package is so pricey it's $4788 a year and as far as I can see the only advantage is the fact you can embed videos into you own website and you can set up a short URL so that's a lot of money for very little extras unless embedding is crucial to your operation!

I'm sure there are already some good deals out there but as it takes off, I figured competition will force hosts to provide better and cheaper facilities

Chris Harding June 20th, 2016 02:01 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Hi Steve

Having dipped your toe into the world of weddings and found out that it's a huge amount of work, maybe you can now appreciate why I'm doing more promotion of live broadcast weddings rather than 10 to 12 hours of hard labour!!! Of all the weddings we have here a large proportion are small family based or registry office based ceremonies with no reception where family shoot the photos and video seems to be shunned (I have done just ONE video shoot in the last 15 years at our registry office and they have a good 5 or 6 a day there!!) Civil unions here rarely exceed 20 minutes so you might be tied up for a hour at most compared to a full day PLUS at a traditional wedding with all the bells and whistles....I'm getting a bit old to work from mid morning to midnight so you can see why I find a 1 hour gig appealing!! Also the market is even better for brides on a tight "ceremony only" where they might have family that cannot attend and they certainly cannot afford to fly people in from all parts of the world. For now also there is probably less chance of being "invaded" by the weekend warriors who buy a camera from the discount house and start under cutting prices!!

Steven Digges June 20th, 2016 10:37 AM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Chris,

I think adding a live broadcasting and VOD option to your wedding packages is a great idea.

As you know I am heavily involved in the corporate meeting industry as a video producer and AV technical director. When the recession hit here there was a period of great expectation that meeting planners would turn to webcasting to help deal with their ever shrinking budgets. It never happened. I have and do webcast corporate meetings. I have been doing it since 2007 when it had a much higher risk factor, lower quality, and a much greater IT component than todays standard. Now that we can do it with spectacular quality and much lower risk it still has not taken off like it should. I have my own thoughts on why but that is for another time. The point is when meeting planners do broadcast I see them using the low end way of doing it, like their companies WebEx account or some new one called Bluejeans. They go about it the wrong way and use whatever "video conferencing" account the company happens to use instead of having someone like me do a true high quality broadcast using a true CDN and making it look like a true TV style broadcast. So we do it, but not as much as I would like to. It is a hard sell instead of a technology they are rushing to use. I think there is so much bad video out there that there is a misconception of how good it can be when done properly.

I think putting real samples of weddings you have broadcast on your website will be critical to your success in selling that option. I believe you are correct that it will help separate a pro like you from the weekend warriors. But only for a while.....soon they too will be blasting live on Youtube and Facebook!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Chris Harding June 20th, 2016 05:44 PM

Re: Live Event Broadcasting
 
Thanks Steve

As technology forges ahead getting cheaper and cheaper it does make life more and more difficult for us guys. It's hard to believe that 20 years ago wedding videographers were paying anything from $10K to $25K for a camera and it was truly a profession and the only weekend warrior was the guy who worked at the TV station, went out with the boss's daughter so had access to broadcast cameras unlike today where anyone can offer services with very little expenditure in comparison.

Yeah, even the niche markets will soon be flooded with weekend warriors too sadly... not that we mind the competition which is easy to overcome, but the fact that their crazy low prices drag industry median prices right down.


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