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Shooting non-repeatable events: weddings, recitals, plays, performances...

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Old October 21st, 2016, 04:00 AM   #16
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Why is XLR so important to you? It's only of use if you have long cable runs.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 04:17 AM   #17
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Hi Nigel

If you do corporate events and such it's normal from the audio desk to give you an XLR plug rather than anything else (industry standard maybe???) Because I use cams in conjunction with a mixer under the camera it came with XLR inputs so I had to actually change my receiver cables to XLR end plugs but for normal use a standard 3.5mm input works .. I think people look for XLR on cameras because it gives them two indivual channels as opposed to cameras with 3.5mm which are often just a stereo jack so you cannot adjust individual levels?
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Old October 21st, 2016, 04:28 AM   #18
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

From what I understand Mike needs it for weddings and then it's not so practical to run a long cable from the DJ's mixer to a camera depending on where you have to position that. Otherwise if you want to use a professional shotgun mike then a xlr connection is preferable or it has it's advantages connecting a wireless receiver to a xlr input but other then that I don't see any other use for a xlr connection at weddings.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 06:15 AM   #19
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

I just wanted to confirm that Mike really did need XLR inputs. There is often a misconception that because XLR inputs appear on professional cameras that somehow they are better quality than a 3.5mm jack. The only benefit of XLR is to allow long cable runs without interference. If the camera doesn't have XLR but the mic does then a simple adaptor is all that is required. There will be no deterioration in audio quality.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 06:38 AM   #20
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

It's not only to allow long cable runs, it's also impossible to pull a xlr cable out of it's socket + camera's with xlr usually have a better onboard audio quality and easier ways to adjust volume or ways to switch between line and mic level or supply a mike with 48v and that all right out of the box. The sound quality that I can get out of my jvc ls300 with my shotgun mike is a lot higher then I am able to get out of my gh4.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 09:55 AM   #21
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

XLR- phantom power, locking connector (I have indeed had my 3.5mm plug from my sennheiser pack pull out of my recorder before), additionally for ceremonies (or other event coverage or shoots where I use my wireless set) I want a quality ambient sound track, for reactions, more realistic sound, and just incase the wireless should sh*t the bed. I don't believe I've ever seen a camera with multiple 3.5mm inputs.

If all I could buy was a full size shoulder cam with XLR's yes, maybe it'd be worth downgrading to just having 3.5mm jack onboard but the reality the weight and size of conventional video cameras have come WAY down while the features have stayed rather steady.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 11:10 AM   #22
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

XLRs look professional and are always on pro cameras, but they are not always best. I have had a number of past occasions where an XLR cable has been tripped over and pulled the cable straight out of the connector, a disaster in the middle of a shoot. I have also had mini Jack leads tripped over which has resulted in the plug being pulled out of the socket and just needing plugging back in again.

XLRs are a mono connection, so you need two for stereo or twin channel input. Mini jacks on cameras are usually stereo, so feed to two channels anyway so you don't need two. Of course most cameras with XLR inputs have separate channel volume controls, but there is no reason why a stereo mini Jack socket shouldn't be connected to a small camera mounted mixer which has individual level controls to each of the channels, routing to left or right channels as required. I believe Chris Harding uses exactly that on his Panasonic setup.

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Old October 21st, 2016, 12:10 PM   #23
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

If someone trips over your xlr cable means you do it wrong, that's why you use gaffer tape to secure any loose ends, if you have it dangling loose over the ground and someone falls over it, it's your fault. In case of a shotgun mike connected to the camera, no-one can ever trip over that because of the very short length, I have my xlr cables custom made now to the exact size I need so it doesn't stick out anywhere and if you want to prevent the risk completely then use a wireless system.

A xlr connection can also be stereo using a 5pin xlr and a stereo mike. I just split my monochannels which is easy in Edius so I get sound left and right of the speaker. Any xlr box mounted on a bridge camera or dslr will not sound as clean and clear as a videocamera with xlr build right in, that was my experience with my gh4 at least, that has nothing to do with the connector but the quality of the internal audio of the camera. I have tried to connect a wireless receiver to my tascam dr60 which can send a direct feed to my gh4 and record simultaneously to the dr60. The sound recorded by the gh4 was usable but the recording on the tascam was a lot clearer and cleaner, I could use the dr60 recording but then I end up syncing in post what I don't have to do with a camera that has xlr build in. My ls300 for instance has a very clean and clear sound through any good quality mikes I connect to it's xlr and sounds a lot better then what I can get out of my gh4 + a extra box under or on top of a dslr makes it only more difficult to handle it.

Last edited by Noa Put; October 21st, 2016 at 01:00 PM.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 03:08 PM   #24
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Having been a musician aswell for the past 50 years, I have used XLR cables on stage for decades Noa, and live gigs are awash with cables across the stage. Anyone who has worked on live music gigs for a while and hasn't had experience of cables being accidentally ripped out is very lucky or mistaken. I wasn't being specific about video, just XLR connectors.

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Old October 21st, 2016, 04:20 PM   #25
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

You are talking about live gigs that are awash with cables across the stage and we are talking about weddings here where you have one cameraguy that has a 20cm long xlr cable between his shotgun mike and camera :)
Mike has been clear he wants a camera with a xlr connection so not sure why you want to convince him to use a camera that only has a minijack connection and then to add a separate box to secure his audioneeds?
Anyways, Mike, since the gy hm170/200 was on your list you might check out the jvc category on this forum, there was one user of the 170 who was not that pleased, not that this means all those models are bad but might be worth considering, here was that topic: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-4k-p...00-issues.html
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Old October 21st, 2016, 06:32 PM   #26
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Hi Roger

Yep I use a Saramonic XLR adapter under the camera but sadly not as small as I would like it to be!! It basically doubles the size of the camera and doubles the weight as well but it is convenient and during a wedding it's easy to see your audio levels on the display. A smaller one would be nice so I could use it under the camera for handheld as well. Both my receivers that mount on the dedicated slots on the adapter had 3.5 to 3.5mm cables so I had to chop one end off and add an XLR plug.
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Old October 21st, 2016, 11:05 PM   #27
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Actually 1 of the reasons I am excited about the GH5 is that it has a new audio hotshoe attachment that adds I think 2 XLR inputs. With the GH4 there is no means of adjusting audio once recording, so this would be very useful and stop me having to rely on the Zoom as a go between whenever I'm conducting Interviews with my wireless mics. I'm planning to add a 2nd wireless mic system for those cases where there are either 2 speakers at a conference or 2 Best Men doing a Speech. Being able to easily adjust audio on the go is I feel quite essential for any camera system. A lot of cameras with only 3.5 input don't seem to have comparative controls.
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Old October 22nd, 2016, 08:11 AM   #28
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

I have a couple of the cheap Boya wireless mics which I have been delighted with. The receiver has a headphone monitor socket which is lacking on my FZ1000s and also an output level control to adjust the level going into the camera. The receiver sits comfortably in the hotshot and is very easy to control the volume with a simple rocker switch. As the camera has input level meters showing, control is straight forward.

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Old October 22nd, 2016, 08:47 PM   #29
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

The other thing you have to think about is that a 3.5mm input works fine for mics and receivers BUT if you do stage events the sound desk will not only give you an XLR feed but it's also line output and most "real video cameras" have XLR plus you can switch to mic or line input ...that's why I have the box under my main camera so I can accept feeds that are given to me and it's simple to switch to line or mic. Also if you use a shotgun XLR mic is has phantom power which an XLR bank will provide easily ... I have lost count the number of times I have forgotten to switch the mic on before I start!! With XLR and a phantom powered mic you don't have this problem. Small things maybe but sometimes make a big difference!!
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Old October 29th, 2016, 08:19 AM   #30
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Re: Need to upgrade camcorder in kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike DiFilippo View Post
I'd most likely look to use a short shotgun as my "On camera" and then for ceremonies I run a wireless lav, right now on the Z7 that gives me one channel dedicated to the shotgun and one dedicated to the wireless lav.
Sorry for the delay in responding but it does work this way. There's an "Input 1" option at the front of the XLR box, which offers you to put it to Input 1&2 (ie same mic for both lines), or just put it it Input 1 only. So you can keep your shotgun in Input 1, then, you plug the wireless mic into Input 2 and viola.
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