Selling Video Downloads
 

I have been filming School productions for a number of years at the same handful of schools, but this year I have noticed a marked reduction in the number of DVD orders for the first time. I have made a few enquiries and it seems that many of the parents are saying to the schools that they don't have a DVD player any more.

Given the fact that the download marketing of films has expanded rapidly, people are using DVD/bluray less and less. I was contemplating the idea of uploading the finished productions to an online facility that enables parents to purchase a download or viewing as they would with popular films. Does anybody here do that already and are subscriptions such as Vimeo Pro able to offer that facility? The other thing I wondered is whether it is possible to upload the videos to my own website and add some sort of pay for download facility.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hi Roger

I did a pay to download arrangement thru PayPal for my DIY tutorials for many years and they were very successful too. All people do is pay via PayPal and they are directed to an encrypted download link where they download the file to their computer. Sure it can be hacked by clever people by really who would want to hack a kids concert? I think you would be quite safe doing it that way but if you are concerned simply set up a payment site and once you get notification that you have been paid you can send the parent a download link. As with DVD's links can be copied or shared so you have to accept that ..If I download the concert from you so I can see my child performing I can easily share it with other parents if I want to so what I would be inclined to do would be to split content up into segments so parents can choose which scene to download that has their offspring in it.

Just another thought...my mate over East worked for a company that produced USB's on demand at the concert for each performance and people could physically buy them on the night.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

At least copying DVDs required a little technical knowledge & simple measures could defeat casual copying but as soon as the video file is downloaded it's so easy for it to be copied onto a USB thumb drive & passed on to another parent.

The only relatively foolproof way of preventing copying is to do as the major studios do & sell through iTunes but Apple don't make this easy (or maybe even possible?) for the small scale operator.

The alternative is to reach an arrangement with the organisers of the dance recital or concert that the price of the video gets bundled in with the ticket price & everyone gets a copy. You can charge a lower amount per video knowing that the numbers will be higher.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hi Nigel

Of course once Mum and Dad get their download they can also easily share it with all the aunties that couldn't attend so one must expect a bit of piracy regardless. The nature of the event however wouldn't really be attractive to 6 billion hackers in the world so one could quite easily just ignore the "shares" which are likely to happen with either USB, downloads or DVD's ... Most payment processors will have the facility for an encrypted download link that expires once you have used it. Personally sharing cannot really be prevented regardless of the media.

Roger ..this is worth a read ...Selz host your downloads and have a secure checkout http://www.wpsuperstars.net/how-to-s...pal-wordpress/

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Vimeo has an "on demand" feature. https://vimeo.com/ondemand/startselling

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I password protect the download school play/concert file with a customized shortened url using the surname of the individual who paid for the link. I figure they are less likely to share the file if their surname is the password.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I was thinking about this recently. I seem to revisit it each year.

My main concern with the download method is that theatrical performances can get long and large. Is someone going to want to download 6-10gb file?

The vimeo method solves the large download but there are issues of how long they have access and most people want to watch on a large screen tv and there's the $17/month is fine as long as it's generating enough sales.

The flash drives have issues of compatibility with tv, cost of 16gb media is around $5, packaging... but this actually seems like the better method.

Most of my clients are moms buying a video of their kid are they techy enough for these methods...

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Thanks guys for all the advice so far. One thing is clear from the advice and suggestions, which is that it is not a simple route to follow.

There appear to be a number of problems:-
1) Any downloaded files are easily copied
2) The performances are only occasional, but would require a subscription to host no matter how many sales were involved which may not make it financially viable.
3) The performances are free, so no chance of adding on to a ticket price.
4) Many performances are over an hour and most people may not want to download the size of file, or may not have a download speed that is fast enough for practical downloading of a big file.
5) With the DVDs at present, all sales are made by the school based on a minimum quantity for each performance bought from us as the production company. The minimum quantity covers our costs and makes a small profit, with extra copies given us a bigger return and a small profit from each one to the school. That would be difficult if not impossible to implement with a streaming or download system.

My conclusion so far is that the demise of the DVD could make marketing of small quantities of performance recordings extremely difficult in the absence of any cheap hard copy alternatives. USB drives are a possibility but are not attractive as a medium to parents, not always cross platform compatible and are easily lost. They are also much more expensive than blank DVDs and more difficult to package appropriately. They work for weddings because of the bigger overall return and small numbers allowing for attractive packaging, but for school play and recital type projects I can't see them being easily saleable at an affordable price.

Sale on the night is not possible, as we shoot with multiple cameras requiring editing. Live mixing is also not practical as it would require rehearsal attendances and familiarity with the script for precise camera directing and mixing cues. Something not possible with low production costs.

It does seem that the advances in technology and viewing practices means that small production viewing could be taking a step backwards unless a secure and affordable subscription viewing services becomes available for occasional small runs. This would need to be bundled in a way that the video producer could control, whilst giving full viewing and sales access figures to the stage producers to be able to set up a financial package that is open and clear.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

There may be some aspect of this I'm missing. But Roger was talking about downloads as an alternative to DVD distribution which implies standard definition video to me. How long are these events? I can encode high quality Standard Definition H.264 files with a tool as simple as Handbrake at less than 1gb per hour - just did a 64 minute file this morning and it is 850MB. The quality is noticeably better than the disks I used to burn in DVD Studio Pro 5 years ago.

I also don't know what system you might be using to make your DVD's, but there are a bunch of readily available tools to rip them (again, Handbrake does this). So if somebody wants to duplicate and send to friends, doesn't seem like a physical disk is much of a barrier anymore.

With it being so much simpler to distibute online, couldn't you lower the price to the point where there's less incentive to copy them? And since it is easy to purchase online (with instant gratification), perhaps you could make it up with a higher volume of sales?

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hi Roger

OK if you use Paypal it does cost you anything to setup (admittedly they take a % of payments but that's easy to cover) plus you can use your account over and over for shows, events or even wedding downloads

Anyone that can copy a downloaded file and put it on a DVD/USB for Aunt Mary can also do the same with your DVD. In fact if you give the school/organiser a bunch of DVD's to sell they can also copy it!!

It takes time to render a DVD, print it and post/deliver so you save that expense.

Most parents only want a record of their child/children so when we do a dance recital we create a clip for each segment (usually a song length) so unless the child is a superstar parents will more than likely want just a few clips that features their kids only. Doing that method on a DVD is impractical but offering performance clips are highly practical and you are looking at small downloads.

I guess if you are doing just one show a year you don't want to invest in anything extra anyway? Do you really have to edit? The last dance show we did the dance teacher complained that it wasn't all wide as she felt that we were being biased by showcasing some girls and no others. The next one was the stage width with no edits at all and she was delighted!!

I guess it's back to DVD's?? You could also offer parents (via the school) an optional USB at a fixed cost but it would mean you would have to render out to MPEG2 and MP4

Hope you find a practical solution for this but regardless have a Merry Christmas!!

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Boyd,
Oh I didn't think about distributing standard def online because dvd do that well enough, the customers are happy with it and the media is inexpensive and easy to author.

I was thinking only HD because its difficult to distribute. Given bluray is expensive, difficult to burn and author and doesn't have the adoption rate of dvd. This leaves either usb memory stick or online distribution as the only viable alternative.

Chris,
I do a couple of those types of dance recitals and that's an interesting approach although seems like it could introduce a lot of complexity managing the clips and pricing them. I sell a dvd with an index menu and chapters for each dance. That way I author one dvd and allow parents a way to easily navigate to their kid. So lets say there are 39 dances how are you pricing them?

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hi Pete

Mine so far have been on DVD just like you with a comprehensive menu so mums can select the dances that apply to them. It is the easiest way. I purely mentioned that I rendered each clip I shot to it's own file and then assembled them onto DVD so for upload in MP4 they would be practical to download as each clip is only around 3 - 4 minutes ...however, as you say, if you charge say, $40 for a DVD is it worth selling individual dance sequences for only $1.00 (assuming there were 40) My last one was a 4 hour session with 2 hours for Juniors and 2 hours for seniors so there were, in fact 40 performances!!

Maybe DVD is the easiest route? Even an 8gb thumbdrive here is $4 - $5 compared to a DVD disk that costs 28 cents!!! add a case and printing and you still have very cheap media compared to USB!

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I would price individual downloads of one out of 40 performances much higher, like maybe $15.00 or $20.00 and then price all 40 for $40.00, in that way you would encourage people to go for the full package so they feel they get a better deal, asking $1.00 for individual downloads will only lead to sales so low you will have to forfeit on the following years performance as it will not be worth it.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

It might be easier if I explain better how we work at the moment.

Assuming an average show of 60 mins, they are performed by all the children in the particular year or years, typically about 60 children. They are either Christmas shows based on the nativity, or end of spring term shows which are simple plays. All the children appear several times in the shows, some as main players and some with smaller parts or in a chorus. The shows are continuous theatre style productions with dialogue, narrators etc, so it wouldn't be possible to break into sections with particular children and would also be incredibly time consuming. We cover eight of these shows each year.

The shows are shot with two manned cameras to follow the main actors and dialogue and two locked off cams on full stage and closer on centre stage, although we have just started filming in 4K to cut out the need for follow cams. The editing is basically a rolling mix, giving us the ability to pick out who is speaking which we couldn't do with a live mix. The timeline is rendered to MP4 which is very quick, then the DVD made from the mp4s, also very quick. Sleeves are produced from an archived template that we just drop a couple of stills into and change the name. It takes no more than 10 minute to complete and they are printed very quickly. Cases are slimline budget ones, so the cost of cases, blank DVDs and printing is less than 50p each.

The schools have a contract with us to receive a minimum quantity of DVDs at £10 each, which covers all our basic costs and time and makes a small profit. Any extra copies they get at £5 each and they sell all copies at £10 to the parents. This means that after the initial minimum quantity, all extra sales make the school £5 per copy, which they love, they also bring us an extra £4.50 per copy. Typically the schools sell 2-3 times the minimum number, so everybody is happy. We have no contact with the parents at all, so just film, edit and produce the DVDs. As the schools have no ability or time to make their own copies and also their contract makes it clear that we own the mechanical copyright, there would be no point trying to make copies themselves. Plus they make £5 anyway off of each extra one they sell. Parents pre order from the school and we make one bulk delivery, which reduces even further the chances of parents copying them as they like the original with sleeves and disk printing. At £10 each, they are also an attractive price at less than the cost of a school photo.

Hopefully that makes it clearer why I am struggling for an alternative method of supply that is as cheap, easy and reliable.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Based on that Roger I would simply do as you always have done and supply the minimum quantity on DVD it seems the easiest way to go. You could of course also offer an alternative delivery on USB for extra orders at a suitable price.

Have a great Christmas!

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Notwithstanding all the points I already made in this particular case as the parents pre-order & pay before the event it actually might be OK to offer HD downloads. The casual copying will be for relatives etc after the event & it's such less likely that parents would collude before the event to have one of them pay & then share the download with other parents once the download link is available. I am sure that the expectation from the school is that every parent will pay for a copy & it will be obvious if parents don't. The only losses will be in follow-up sales of a DVD for the grandparents etc

On balance I think that Roger still has to deliver DVDs as the lowest common denominator but could make a dual package with an HD download & DVD bundle as he is rendering out to an .MP4 version as the source for the DVD.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I think you might be right Nigel about keeping the DVDs as a basic, but offering downloads as an alternative or as a joint package. The only difficulty I can see is doing that via the schools to avoid direct contact with parents. Certainly a possibility to explore further though.

A Very Merry Christmas to all,

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Just sell DVDs as normal & on the DVD packaging have a link to the HD download.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

If these were total strangers, I would agree with your thoughts.
But these parents most certainly know each other and/or have received group emails so that they know each others contact info. It would be trivial for one person to email 5 of their closest fellow parents and offer to share the link.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

The other way to look at it a paying customer is going to think if I paid for mine you should pay for yours.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

This is discussed pretty regularly on the FB Dance Recital Video group page.

There are 2 things impacting the current state of event (non wedding) video sales - (1) Smartphones and tablets are "good enough" (2) The need for instant gratification.

In order to get around this, I'm planning on experimenting with my main dance studio this year by offering the regular whole show DVD for $30 like normal.

But, I'm also offering HD digital downloads of every individual performance. So, in this case, there would be about 50 dances x 2 shows = 100 digital files.

The way I've broken it up is:

Solo Acts = $25
Groups with 2-6 =$50
Groups with 6+ = $75

I know that DVD copying goes on all the time. Obviously, with a digital download, copying is even easier... hence the high prices. I fully expect parents to "go in" and buy these dances. So every parent would likely pay $5-10, then share it and I'm totally fine with that.

I use SmugMug to deliver videos, and the way it would work is, Sally Smith would pay for the download and then the parents would work out getting it.

It's absolutely no different than what they do with DVDs, where 1 parent buys the disc and then 5 other parents pay them $5 to get a copy.

These digital downloads would be labelled with the studio credentials, nothing indicating I was the one filming it.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

My preferred approach would be to have the "DVD fee" added to the actual dance recital cost and then every parent would get a DVD and an HD download.

I'm thinking something like $30.

So if the studio had 150 in the recital, then the studio would just write me a check for $4500 and then I'd handle making all the copies (at Kunaki where there are $1 a piece) and the uploading the digital files for download.

But I'm not quite there yet.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

The Studio is going to want a free copy for each teacher & staff member.
As a sign of good faith, you should beat them to the punch, and put the free copies into your initial proposal.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Two years ago, I included a post-card inside each DVD case.
The Postcard said: "Included with your purchase is a free download of your child's dance.
Send an email to xxx@yyy,com for your free download link.
I got ZERO replies

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I always give the studios as many copies as they want for the staff... usually around 10-15.

I use to give them a cut of $5 per sale back in the day... but writing those checks hurt when it came time for the bigger studios with like 200-300 kids.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

This seems like a good time to remind everyone of one old technique of copy-protecting DVDs that has worked well in the past. (I think I learned this technique here from one of the members of our forum, but I'm not 100% sure of this.)

1
Add about ten minutes of black to the end of the film along with some text that reads, "Click the menu button to return to the main menu."

2
Burn a master disc and place it into a multiple-disc duplicator.

3
Copy the master to a bunch of blank discs...but watch the screen on the duplicator that indicates what percent of the copy process has been completed (assuming that this percent does indeed show up on your duplicator). When the process is nearly complete (very close to 100%), shut off the power to the duplicator. This immediate loss of power causes the portion at the end of the film (the extra minutes of black screen that you added earlier) to be written with random bits of data as the duplicator "winds down" (crashes).

The result of this process is that you end up with discs that play fine up until they reach that point at the end of the film where you crashed the duplicator. So, when a customer watches the film, they will finally reach the screen at the end that reads "Click the menu button to return to the main menu." They will have a few minutes to follow this direction and be returned to the main screen as promised. If they wait too long though, the DVD will freeze. At this point, they simply need to eject and re-insert the disc, or power it down and power it back up again in order to return to the main menu. Of course, many people will simply eject the disc after reaching the end. (There may be some DVD players and computer programs that act differently when playing back these discs, but what I described above has been my personal experience with them.)

Why might you want to do all this? Because standard copying programs cannot handle copying a disc that has has been created with this intentional crash (causing the random data to be written to the disc).

Unless there are a great many new methods for copying discs of this type that have emerged in the past several years, I believe this would go a long way toward preventing customers from making copies of their own. The drawback of course is that if a customer cannot make copies, they cannot create a back up for themselves. Then, if their disc goes bad (as many discs tend to do), they may come back to you (justifiably) wanting a replacement for their faulty DVD.
____________________

So here's one way you may wish to handle your sales. It's not perfect, but there might be some good ideas here.

Sell these "copy-protected" discs and include a note in each that a free backup copy will be available online to all that have purchased a DVD in approximately one year, provided that they have their password (that you will provide with their disc). There's nothing you can do about people copying the backup download, but since it won't be available for a significant amount of time, I think more people would be willing to pay for a legitimate copy right away.

By doing this...(1) paying customers get their film quickly on DVD, (2) others will likely not be able to make copies of their own, (3) you may make some aditional sales, as some families might want to buy extra copies, and (4) by offering the download as a backup, you are off the hook for any discs that go bad in the future.

Alec Moreno

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I would never cripple a dvd in that fashion because it's unprofessional.

I think a better solution is to ask for pre orders. I always work with the dance studio director to find a price point where everyone can afford a video and I can make a living. I also thank the ordering parents and let them know their purchase makes it possible for me to film the performance.

I also find paying the dance studio a small commission for every dvd sold gives them a vested interest in selling as many orders as they can. They have direct access to the parents and students so they can promote the video.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I was assuming that all the DVDs are pre-ordered & paid for by the time of the concert & before any DVDs are delivered. There is a difference between someone with the link sharing it & a bunch of parents colluding together beforehand so that they agree that just one of them will buy a DVD & then share the link with the others.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

This doesn't especially address the original question, but I find the topic to be of general interest. If you are currently dependent on DVD for distribution, seems like you need to start thinking of alternatives because its days are surely numbered. Might take awhile, but it will happen.

I remember when I first started at DVinfo, we had some very heated debates over 4:3 vs 16:9 video. We know how that worked out in the long run. Even the die-hards eventually traded their glass CRT's for widescreen LCD's in the end.

I stopped using DVD's myself a few years ago, they are just so slow and frustrating. I had a very large library but over the course of a year or so I ripped them all to a home media server and never looked back. My daughter (who is a "millenial") doesn't use DVD's anymore either. In her family, they don't have any physical media anymore, or even any local storage. It's all Netflix, Apple Music, DVR or in the cloud.

My 6 year old granddaughter attends a large dance school in the New York City area and I never miss the recitals. They sell DVD's for $50 which my daughter finds laughable, she wouldn't even consider paying that much to see the less than 10 minutes where her kid is one of 30 others. They allow the parents to film the dress rehearsals, so she shoots those on her phone.

I think you also need to consider the changing uses of this sort of video. People want to upload it to social media and e-mail or text it to their friends and family. Again, my daughter is not going to buy 10 copies of a DVD and mail them to her family and friends. She also isn't going to go to the trouble of ripping a DVD. It's all about instant gratification today.

If the video were available for download at a reasonable price, where you could just choose the numbers her child was in, I'm sure she would buy it. But again, she would expect to be able to share it online.

I sympathize with those of you who do this for a living, and understand that there is a threshold where it just wouldn't be worth your while. But expectations are changing so rapidly. Looking back again at my early days at DVinfo 15 years ago… who would have imagined that everyone would carry a high quality internet-connected video camera and TV in their pocket everywhere they go?

I don't have the answer, and I don't make a living from event videography. But if I did, I'd be devoting a lot of thought about the way forward.

Just some food for thought. Best wishes to all for the holidays!

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I might as well throw another spanner in the works and suggest that Boyd is very much correct about the instant gratification bit of this conversation. People want everything now if not sooner.

We are venturing quite extensively into the live broadcast side of video thus eliminating not only the physical media side of things but also the editing side of things! Actually the editing side affects costing more than one thinks! If we do an event we arrive at the venue, set up and film. At the end of the event we are finished ...totally! No editing, no burning DVD's no transferring footage ...Our stream is automatically converted into a DVR copy online a mere 17 seconds behind the actual live signal so people can watch live, halfway through, or a year later ...yes, there is extra production costs which the usual hard copy videographer doesn't incur but they are no tied to hours like editing is. Our CDN services cost us $499 a year and we have unlimited facilities (plus I share with a mate on the east coast so it's even cheaper) plus I do have to pay for data usuage during the broadcast if the venue doesn't have sufficient upload speed.

However, these are tiny costs if taken on an event by event basis and certainly way, way less than my time sitting at the computer editing footage or making DVD's.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Same problem here. Am currently thinking of moving from PD150 to ax 100 but concerned about selling and protecting. Just found this thread and will have to read. I too have seen dvd sales drop for the dance school i do.

Will follow.

Martin

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

The bottom line here is what do people want! I bet all they really want is a video of the child doing her dance routine so they can show it off to friends and family who didn't attend. It's a well know fact that wedding DVD's ( a far more important, and one-off event) are often watched once and then stuck in the cupboard to gather dust so the bottom line has to be how to get a copy of the recital to parents and still make enough from copy sales to make it a worthwhile venture! We used to shoot recitals free for dance schools and the resulting DVD sales more than adequately covered us for our time but that doesn't seem to be the case any longer as the dance school wouldn't want to lose money on the recital upfront payment (like Roger does and supplies XXX DVD's for a one off payment) I think that the modern parent would indeed be more than happy to download a video of their child's performance but unless it's a massive recital you might simply not cover any expenses from online downloads. We found that most parents are just interested in their child not the others and the only people that wanted the entire concert was the dancing school mainly for evaluation reasons. I would be looking at the option of being able to download each sequence BUT would that result in enough sales to pay you??

As an example we did a live stream wedding ceremony on the beach yesterday and to shoot this 20 minute event we normally charge a mere $250.00 ... so far in the last 12 hours, 182 people have viewed it so if that was the lot, I could have also sold the clip download at $1.50 and covered my costs easily ... Because it's a live broadcast there is also no editing ..just shoot and pack up and the video is created automatically. Trouble is how many people would want to watch a 2 hour recital and pay for it and would it cover your costs?

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I haven't seen a loss in sales but I do see a lot of parents filming their kid in the audience with their smart phone. I always try to offer the highest quality product, at a reasonable price, delivered in a method the client wants in my case its still dvd.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I can see that filming a dance recital and selling individual clips of each child could have it's advantages, particularly if you are selling direct to the parents. In my situation though, the performances are nativities and plays up to 60 minutes long, with all the children appearing multiple times, so parents want the whole thing. As I supply a one off delivery directly to the school, I don't have to worry about collecting payments, taking individual orders etc and it has always worked extremely well, particularly as the school also earn from it.

Parents have also liked the fact that the DVD in it's case is comparable to something they would buy in the shops, is a physical object that they get in return for their cash, and is a part of their child's history that they can look back on. They also frequently give them as presents to Grandparents. I can't see a download having anything like the same attraction and giving a download code as a present is just not going to hack it.

Sadly I think that it is an era that is passing with nothing to replace it for small production runs. The alternatives may not be financially viable or are too time consuming to bother with. Chris's live streaming is great for a wedding or similar, where the couple are what it's all about, but when you have 60 kids dashing on and off stage for an hour, it is just not possible to do a live stream or shoot without thouroughly learning the script to know when and where everybody is going to be. It would also require a producer to direct the cameras at the appropriate time. That would be time consuming and not practical. Charging the school a flat fee would also not work in my instance as they are usually primary schools with an already stretched budget and they would not be able to sort out download codes for every parent, collecting viewing payments etc.

Viewing habits and requirements have changed and people are less and less having a need to own a video. I can see having downloads available to purchase, but not at the same sort of cost as a DVD and with a lot more setting up required to make it work, no upfront payments and little chance of making a worthwhile profit. It would be a shame to just let it all go, so I will continue to play around with ideas and costs.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Was discussing this issue with my daughter and son in law a couple days ago. They are just not interested in a DVD, and are in fact a little insulted that one is being offered for $50. I know this is unfair to the video company, but she feels like the dance school tuition is already quite high, not to mention the costumes they have to buy, so it just rubs her the wrong way.

She agreed that a $10 download of just her daughter's numbers would be a no-brainer, however she would expect to be able to share it on social media and e-mail or text it to friends and family for that price. That's what she does with her iPhone video of the dress rehearsal, so she is not going to accept any less for a professional video.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

You have just raised an interesting point here Boyd. WIth the sort of productions that I film for schools, one of the things that the schools are particularly keen on is that they have control over the sales, and make it quite clear that they do not want video including other children uploaded to the open internet. Of course where it is a dance recital with just one child, that is up to the discretion of the parents, but with a large production it is a different scenario.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Pet, Roger, Boyd

Your last few remarks pretty well says it all.People want it simple, fast, and easy (and cheap).
I feel somewhat sad for Boyd's kids, and mine, all having their own kids and downloading mobile phone videos and photos. Unfortunately there is a very good chance that the hard drives will fail or the cloud storage go defunct. Then where are the memories.
I still have an 8mm film projector, a hi 8 player and my PD150 to play mini DV's on. I also have a DVD player. Yes a pile of gear over time but I can and do show my kids and the grandkids pictures/films of their parents. I also have slides and negatives. With everything on hard discs and cloud, where will the memories be n years from now.

I video and photograph for my daughter's dance ( mainly ballet ) school that she has been at for 23 years. Yes the market is contracting but still there. The DVD's give a permanent record of recitals and also her performance groups ( (Nutcracker etc). She also uses these as training information.

Enough parents still want hard copies (photos & DVD's) to make it worthwhile. However it is the kids who play them over and over, and not just their sections. I have had requests for replacements because they get worn out.

In my case orders are per individual as they may wish. Some do and some do not.... tip later. Have received orders several years later.

And yes copying is a problem, mostly with the photos. My display of photos on SmugMug are taken off for social media even though they are of lower quality and have two lines of text on them. Oh well.

Costume wise my daughter does not sell but rather rent and the parents love that. Also as far as security, a waiver is signed about photos and videos and any parent can opt out of have individual shots go online. Never a problem and only one Opt out in all those years.

So, are we any farther ahead? No, but the scene is clearer. What does the customer want and do they think about the future?

In my case I will continue to offer photos and dvd's while looking for other routes( downloads etc). Luckily I do not have to make a living at this.

Martin

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

I take your point, but that has not been my experience. I spent a lot of time building a website of my design work last year and there are lots of images going back to 1981. I started using CAD around 1990 and by the end of 1993 I completely stopped drafting on paper.

Quite a lot of my old paper drawings are just gone, I have a vague memory of some stuff getting water-damaged at a storage place 10 years ago. But I still have all my digital files. I also have a lot of digital files like budgets, schedules, correspondence and notes going back before 1980 when I was using an Apple ][ computer.

Most of the watercolor paintings that I did for my Master of Fine Arts thesis in 1992 are gone, again the victim of water damage in my attic. Started doing photorealistic 3d modelling for my designs in 1996 and by 1998 I had put away my watercolors and brushes for good. I still have all the computer files from those years. In 1999 I switched over to digital photography, and again I still have every picture.

I recently got back several hundred DV, DVCAM and HDV tapes of performances that I filmed during the period 2001-2011. They had been moved around through various boxes in a crowded storeroom and the company clearly no longer cared about them, I have no doubt they would have been tossed out within a few years. Currently in the process of capturing these all on a 5tb drive with an identical one for backup. As I start to fill up the drives, I'll add another layer of backup, like giving a drive to a friend to keep.

My attic is full of paper stuff and negatives…. after I'm gone, someone will probably just throw it all away. It's very sad, but I have been in that situation twice myself, and even though you want to preserve things you reach a point where you just have to get it done and move on.

But I think the chances are a lot better for someone keeping a couple high capacity disk drives. And online storage is another level of backup. If you put your images in a website, Google will eventually archive everything and that is likely to survive a lot longer than you also. In the case of some photos that I no longer had, I was able to recover them through archive.org, which has copies of a website I used to operate in the 1990's.

And don't feel sad for my kids, I'm so proud of them. The world is changing, they are adapting and we are constantly learning from each other.

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hi Boyd,

Like you, I have digital files of my work and my family going back many years, but then you and I are specialists and understand the storage mediums. Most ordinary members of the public don't understand different ways to store and don't have the equipment either. These days, it is so easy to take photos and video on your phone and share it with friends and family, recalling it whenever you want, but how many of those fun pictures of kids growing up etc are going to be forgotten about and lost when phones are changed or lost etc?

As Martin said I wouldn't want to trust my memories to remote cloud storage, with absolutely no control over future storage requirements, charges or longevity of the companies concerned. Having a DVD or hard copy put away under my control is what I want, but there is really nothing solid to replace the DVD that is so accessible. Many other storage solutions may be very transient and seem to be geared to remote instant access providing you have access to a decent internet connection and funds to pay for it. Who knows how that may change in the future or for that matter, who may have or get access to your supposedly stored private information.

Roger

Re: Selling Video Downloads
 

Hey, I hear you - and agree that many people place too much blind trust in "the cloud" and don't devote enough thought to backup… until it's too late. But again, I just have to look at personal experience. About 8 years ago my daughter wanted to take all our old photo albums back to her home in New York. They arrived late at night and parked on the street. In the morning, the rear window was broken and everything was gone. The irony is that the reason they broke in was because she left an old DVD player I gave her out in plain view. It was maybe worth $25.

It's fortunate that a lot of the pictures were copied and sent to my mother back in the 1980s. I still have boxes of all her old photos, and have been gradually scanning those.