'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

So for next season I'm thinking of delivering on USB drive as standard and having optical discs as a paid-for extra, but I'm struggling with how to sell this to couples.

For those of you delivering on USB ho do you go around explaining that they might not be able to gather around the TV to watch it unless they hook up a laptop via HDMI or some sort of Chromecast setup? As we know, that fact that a TV has a USB port means very little - my 5 year old Sharp has one but will only play JPG photos and audio files.

It seems a bit of a hard sell to me compared to simply inserting a disc. looking at the lovely menu and away you go!

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Hi Peter,

I've been delivering on USB for the last couple of years, with my basic package including one USB and two DVDs. I render MP4 files for the USB directly from the time line, with a maximum file length of 55 mins to keep within the 4Gb limit. I often make the files smaller, to coincide with appropriate points in the day, such as start of ceremony, speeches, first dance etc. Most modern tvs will play the files consecutively if they are numbered consecutively. I do find that most couples never bother with chapter points on the DVDs, preferring to fast forward if they want to bypass something. If you split the mp4s into suitable sections, they are really just as convenient as chapters.

I have delivered dozens of weddings on USB and have yet to find someone that can't play them. If you write them as a basic MP4 file rather than a packaged MP4 such as MT2S of some other AVCHD files, then you should find that they are playable on almost everything with a USB slot. I find that clients love the fact that they can view on tv, laptop, netbook, even their phone with a USB stick with phone connector. They are also more than happy that they can view in full HD.

Once the MP4 files are rendered, I set a new time line and drag the rendered files onto it in order to write the DVD. That seems to allow much faster writing of the DVD than I get from the original edit timeline.

I also had no problem introducing the USB delivery with a nice presentation case and selling the fact it is full HD, makes USB a no brainer. It's also helped by the fact that a rapidly increasing number of couples no longer have a DVD player, viewing their movies via download services.

Finally, when I visit couples to show them our work, or have videos and photos running at wedding shows, I can now take out one USB portable hard drive that contains dozens of wedding videos and thousands of photos from different weddings, a really convenient way of showing high quality copies of your work.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Hi Guys

USB is so much easier and quicker but I wonder how brides will react to getting just a USB. I'm like Roger and give them DVD's and USB and sadly they always steer towards the DVD's. In fact I had one couple who complained bitterly that they never got their highlight video. I told then "it's on your USB" ...."Oh we haven't seen that yet" ...! They seem to like the addition of the USB but for some strange reason they always gravitate to the DVD's first.

Pete? bear in mind that although DVD's are a pain to make up. they still represent more value for money than a USB simply because of the packaging, printing and presentation. The bride feels she is getting her money's worth when you hand over 3 double DVD sets as opposed to a tiny USB drive.

I'm actually struggling to find decent blank DVD's already and they have already disappeared off my local supplier's shelf so I guess brides will have to suck it up and accept USBs

The selling part is going to be tough I think especially if your competition still offers DVD so I have adopted the "supply DVD's until they are no longer available" but also add in a USB

Maybe we could look at the packaging from a photographer POV and supply a pristine white A4 album with some prints in it and a USB in a neat cut out in the centre ?? That would lift the perceived value quite a bit!

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Most of our couples opt for USB or all USB delivery out of their 3 copies.

The way to sell it is "When was the last time you even had to leave your sofa to rent a movie?"

I have no idea why people still want a disk as blockbuster died years ago because we were all downloading our movie rentals. Why do they feel their wedding needs to be on a disk when everything else they watch is streamed.

Most TV's from the past 5-6 years will play movies from a USB stick. Make sure its in FAT32 (which doest mean a 4GB file size limit) but even my inlaws super cheap tescos telly will play anything you stick in the USB port.

Our TV plays exFAT formatted sticks but only after we did a firmware update. It's still 10 years away before we can use that format as the norm.

This year we've done away with disks as standard. They get a single USB stick and also a custom URL to play their films online. Disks are optional and extra. Ill let you know how it goes as its only just happened.

If you want to test the waters with your clients do what we did. They used to get 3 copies and they can be USB, DVD or Blu-Ray, they choose whatever combination they want. The most popular was all 3 USB followed by 1 of each.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I also put dvd on a option list since last year and give them the film in HD on a exfat formatted usb stick, the reason why I choose exfat is because I consider the usb stick as a carrier for the files and exfat will read on mac and pc, I leave it up to the client to copy the files to their laptop/tablet or mediaplayer or to a usb stick that is formatted in the right way so their tv can play it back.

I also give them a blu-ray as standard. Why the blu-ray? Because it's a extra backup when they ever would loose their digital files, you can just copy the m2ts files right of the disc and play them back with vlc mediaplayer or have it converted to a mp4 as the audiocodec for m2ts files is often not supported for playback on tv.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Why not just create Blu-ray disks with mp4 files rather than m2ts? The quality will be better for the same big rate as the compression is better for MPEG4 versus the MPEG2 of m2ts.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

The point of changing from DVD is that fewer and fewer people have or are using DVD players. Even less have Bluray, so that would be making delivery harder not easier. MP4 files can be written easily to USB and any file size limit is really not a problem.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I'm always about giving the clients more options instead of fewer. I typically give out 4 DVDs, 2 Blu-rays and one USB thumb drive in the base package. It's not just the couple who sees the product, but the family, who are of various ages and technical know-how. No one option is the right option.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

That's just nonsense.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

It may well be nonsence in California, but it certainly isn't in the UK. Its just a natural progression.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

People still have DVD players. They may not be using them as much to play discs and instead will use the streaming capabilities of the unit for their entertainment needs. But most people still have one hooked up to their TV. It's not going anywhere soon.

We seem to have is a few people who never liked authoring DVDs or designing the case cover art. They just want to transfer a video file to a USB drive and call it a day. The laziest way possible.

It's really not that hard putting a little bit of extra work to make sure the client has multiple ways to view their video across different devices.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I"m using tmpgenc authoringworks to create my blu-ray's, not sure how to change that as according to the preferences the streamformat is mpeg4-avc which then seem to result in those m2ts files. The other option I can choose from is mpeg2 video.
Mediainfo says the files are a BDAV AVC format.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I doubt whether people would physically discard their DVD players unless they were faulty but more often than not they still lie in the entertainment unit either connected or disconnected ..to be honest we haven't turned ours on in years so yes that's the trend. BluRay is even worse ... I think I found one bride last year that actually owned one ..most just don't buy them. Video Hire stores have all closed down now so unless you buy from the local store you don't use them. However there are STILL more DVD's available and BD are not found. The stores of obviously still selling DVD's otherwise they wouldn't have them on the shelf in such large numbers so people still have DVD players or they might watch on their computers for all we know. Every country is different but here, brides still expect DVD's on a conventional wedding shoot.

I guess you must supply whatever the bride asks for and if in doubt, over supply is probably better than under supply even if it doesn't get used.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I don't know what type of video work you do or what people use in th U.S. and I also don't agree with the suggestion that I am taking the lazy way out.

I have been filming wedding video professionally for 32 years and have been delivering on DVD since it first became practical. I visit every single client to show them my work before taking a booking and until about 3 years ago, every single potential client had a DVD player, although hardly any had Bluray players. Over the last 3 years, I have noticed a rapid decline in the number of potential clients with DVD players, and over the last year I would say that 50% had either no DVD player at all, or none wired into their TVs. In the last 3 weeks I have visited 11 potential new clients and only 3 had a DVD player. That has meant that I now have to show my work from USB drive and carry a portable USB hard drive with about 50 weddings on in addition to several DVDs. The upside is that they see a much higher resolution product which is important as I am seeing a rapidly increasing number of clients with 4K tvs.

I totally disagree with your opinion that you can just transfer a file to USB and call it a day, in fact I would rather just supply DVD if it was worthwhile and had the same quality as HD USB delivery. I have absolutely no problem with DVD authoring, I carry out the edit on the timeline In Magix Pro17, add chapter points which takes seconds, add my standard menu which is also just a couple of minutes work and render out the DVD straight from the timeline. I use my own artwork template for DVD face printing and sleeve which just involves changing the cover pictures, and date and name. Total time including printing for 3 copies about 15 minutes.

On the other hand, to ensure compatibility from my USB MP4 delivery, I make up usually 3 files from the timeline to keep each within the 4Gb limit, each of which has to be seperately rendered, then transferred to the USB. if I deliver 3 USBs, that takes longer than copying 3 DVDs. There is also a much higher cost to blank USB sticks than blank DVDs. Then there is the cost of suitable presentation packaging for the USBs which is approximately 20 times the cost of a printed DVD and case. My clients also get both DVD and USB in their delivery for the benefit of other family and friends.

Lazy I don't think so!

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

At a place I like to shop the most, Costco, they actually have 3 streaming-equipped Blu-ray players priced at $69, $79 and $89, and no straight DVD players. This is what I've been waiting to see. Affordable Blu-ray and no DVD players. Because Blu-ray is backwards compatible it's now redundant to sell DVD players by themselves.

I love how my videos look on Blu-ray. The quality that I shot with is the quality the couple sees. No compromises. Because I include Blu-ray no matter what, there have been a couple of clients who bought a Blu-ray player when they got their wedding video.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

They have that already. It's called the Blu-Ray.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I believe I am correct in saying that m2ts files are packaged MP4 files. My old TVs that I replaced last week wouldn't play m2ts files, so I tried changing the file suffix to MP4 which resulted in the TVs playing the files with no problem, so might be worth a try.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Things are obviously different across the pond, because if you look at my post you'll see that I find even less BluRay players than DVDs. I'd estimate as low as 10% of DVDs and some of those are only 720p.

My clients don't need to buy a Bluray player just to watch their wedding video when they can get HD from the USB. They can also play it on their laptop, netbook, smartphone, PlayStation, Xbox, or even through the USB slot on the rare chance that they have a Bluray player. As I also film the weddings in 4K, it's an easy matter to supply them with 4K on USB if their 4K TV will handle it, not something that is presently possible with Bluray, a format that has never approached DVD popularity in the UK and never will now that streaming is sweeping all before it. I certainly wouldn't encourage my clients to buy a Bluray player as it will likely soon become another obsolete format.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

There are about 50 million homes that have Blu-ray in the States. So it's not going anywhere soon. But yes, preferences are changing, which is why I'm giving out a USB thumb drive. But they also get the Blu-Ray's and the DVD for that granny that couldn't make the wedding.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Hi Roger

Even if you supply a BD player to the couple it then becomes too much hassle to set everything up ..yes here BluRay players are rare as hen's teeth and a dying format.

Nowdays I guess you need to cater from Grandparents right up to teens who do everything on their phone..It's getting too complicated !! I simply ask the bride what she wants ..end of story!

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

My tv plays the m2ts files but it doesn't play the audio because the audio codec is not supported, but it doesn't matter much anyway, these blu-ray files are like a last resort if they would loose their digital files, that's better then having nothing at all and it's easy to just convert them to a playable format.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I think there is a difference between countries what delivery preferences are, since I started to deliver Blu-ray and HD files on usb stick only last year I only had one request for the optional dvd's which I charge extra for. I did have one wedding 2 weeks ago for a client that lives and works in New York but who have family in Belgium and they requested 6 extra dvd's.

I will continue to offer dvd as a paid option because like you said, there always will be family members with dvd players only and we should at least give them a choice. If they want to pay extra for it then why not.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

The PS3, PS4 & Xbox One all include a Blu-ray drive so there are many more Blu-ray players about than you might think.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Still a very limited market though Nigel and not one I need to enter as USB is more flexible and more versatile. I can't see Gran and Grandad having an Xbox either.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

DVD might be dying, but DVD is not dead. We don't have the power to lead the trend what consumers want. Hollywood studios do! Not us. As long as hollywood movies still release on DVD, they are not dead. DVD player is so common in household item. That is the easiest way to watch a wedding film on TV.

USB is a great option for us because of less work. No authoring, no design menu, cover insert, label, no burning, no printing. But it also does not have the hollywood movie experience. We tried so hard to get rid of the image of "boring VHS wedding" to "cinematic wedding" to make it movie like. But none of the hollywood movies ever released on USB drive.

With USB, there is no presentation of our work. User experience is plug to computer, open up Finder / File Explorer. Locate the drive, doubleclick a .mp4. No menu, no chapter selection.

The biggest problem is, you can't expect video playback on TV's USB port. Many people think they have a SmartTV. But they only have a TV with a USB port. Many TVs (even new ones) don't play video from the USB port. Only play JPEG as slideshow and MP3. There is no standard.

With all that said, I shifted my offering 2 years ago now default online and USB delivery as standard. But i still create DVD-style like menu for both. And I spent effort in the packaging too. If customer wants DVD or BluRay, i charge $300 authoring fee and each DVD is $10, BluRay is $20. I am very good at Encore so it doesn't bother me.

Just recently, I finished a young couple. They order 10 DVD and 8 Blurays as add-on. And I have an old couple 60th anniversary. The wife told me among the 3 vendors they called, I'm the only one who offers DVDs. So i was hired.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Very limited? You obviously don't appreciate the enormous size of the games console market. Estimated sales in the UK of the PS4 last year were 5.4 million units with Xbox One selling up to 2.4 million units. When I was still doing weddings I used to ask the groom if he had a PS3 & if not tell him that now he would have an excuse to buy one to play their Blu-ray wedding video.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I think that Taky's point here needs a lot more consideration. The bride is expecting a value for money package after her wedding and a bunch of printed DVD cases do exactly that ...You spend 12 hours shooting a wedding, many more hours editing it so would it kill you to throw in a couple of extra disks and cases. It makes the overall package appear impressive. (Just look at Taky's image above and ask yourself "Would a bride like a delivery like this or rather have a ting USB in her hand") Seriously brides pay a lot of money for their wedding so why not toss in 3 x DVD's, 3 x BD's and a couple of USB's?

As a photographer in the old days we took pride in our presentation and the bride was always presented with a big white wedding album in a custom box and wrapped in tissue paper and, yes, it blew her socks off because it looked good and represented a decent return of her investment. Nowdays we drop a tiny USB in the mail and still expect the bride to be over the moon??

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Agreed Chris, which is why we supply a package that includes 2 DVDs in photographic cases like Taky's and a DVD in a nice presentation box. It gives something feely touchy and attractive in return for their money.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Yet that engagement ring with that glittering diamond perched on top is a magical object of eternal gratification
held in great regard and admiration. It is only a shiny rock. A small shiny rock, far smaller than a USB.
Perhaps if one can come up with a shoe box size gold gilded and adorned with pearls and shiny stones, a velvet lined encasement to house the lowly USB stick. Would that change her feelings towards it ?

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Many times in other wedding videographers forum, I heard wedding videographers complained our work is being undervalued. Video requires a lot more gears and post editing work. But brides in general consider video as "nice to have". Photo is a must have. Yeah it is very true. But can we blame them?

Photographers spent effort in presentation. When the couple hold a leather bound piano finished high gloss cover magainze albume with their own glamous wedding pic at front, it screams "THAT'S MY WEDDING ALBUM". Customers create an emotional tie to the product they held in their hand.

What about us? a USB flash drive with your own studio logos on it. Yeah you are so stoke about it and brag about it on facebook. It's because that's your studio logo. But when a bride received that in their hands, it has no emotional tie to them.

As I said in the above post, we tried so hard to lose the boring "VHS wedding" image. We tried so hard making it film like, calling it cinematic wedding films. We want to make it a hollywood like production. Yeah the video has that quality, but the product has no presentation. That's why I just use standard DVD and BluRay case. Try to mimic like a hollywood blockbaster. Once I was late to deliver. So i made a in person delivery to the couple. Bride wasn't so please as I was late. But once she held the DVD case in her hand, she starting to have tears. There is no equipvalent when deliver by an email with a link. Or a USB drive with your studio logo on it.

I heard even a videographer deliver mp4 files using a portable HDD the couple provided. He said, that lower his cost, thus packge price. That also avoid warranty problem is the HDD went bad, it's their drive.

Now with my USB flash drive deliver, I created this flash drive box that takes standard 4x6 photos as front insert. With the similar DVD cover insert design, as least it is not a wood box with a studio logo engraved on it.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Presentation is very important and we deliver printed wrap around sleeves for the DVDs with on body disc printing and a jewellry box with plush lining, a white soft padded case and tissue wrapped in a glossy white card box. The whole DVD and USB package is delivered in a glossy white drawstring gift bag and is always hand delivered.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Regarding the diamond ..yes it's a shiny rock on a beautiful handcrafted gold ring. It has preceived value especially in it's presentation box. Take the same ring and double the stone size but leave it uncut ..it has a much bigger value but zero appeal.

Taky's presentation is good and I'm sure any bride would feel what she has in her hands is worth the money she has paid out. A plastic USB, regardless of what is on it has a very low perceived value when presented to a bride. So, getting back to Pete's question, if you present your end product well it really doesn't matter whether it's big or small as long as it represents the huge amount of money the bride has already paid you.

Take a bunch of stills and get an album in a custom box with a slot for the USB abd the bride will be delighted or use what Taky uses ..it's no big deal to toss in a couple of DVD's to make the end product look even better too.

You don't have to sell the usb at all .. sell your package!

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I often get together with photographer friends that I have known for years, many of which are still behind the lens, and t was no surprise to hear that many clients don't want a printed album anymore as they just want all the images either on a CD/DVD or a USB. They usually say that they will decide on an album later if they do want one. On photographer says his album sales over the past 3 years dropped approximately 40% as was explained why the client (usually the bride) decided on. However he also went to say that the client usually wanted, along with the USB, a small 5X5 or 5X7 keepsake albums for the parents. The photog says it doesn't really cut into his bottom line as his lower package fee is compensated by his lower cost to not produce a large album. But the trend here is that the images can be viewed on a large living room screen, preferably a 4K display.Even a 1080p will show great. I myself have 2 clients this year that do not want a large album. I used to be a full time photog but occasionally will do 1 or 2 a year, mostly for friend's children.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Good discussion. Definitely a perceived value issue with thumb drives. At the same time Blu-ray never became universal. DVD looks rather bad on HDTV. And few people even use optical players nowadays (not figuring in gamers). Except parents: Almost all of the movies we buy nowadays are for the kids. And we buy the bluray with DVD copy for the car trips.

The real issue is that most adults (our target market) stream their media. But how do we stream a wedding video to a couple's HDTV (along with all their family members and friends) without setting up a media corporation like Netflix? It's an issue I've been trying to figure out as I venture back into marketing my own wedding video business again. Ten years ago it was easy: DVD copies in a nice case with menus and chapter points. Added bonus of a low res online highlight montage.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

For weddings the most prevalent method is all video on usb to couple and only short 5 minute highlight movie online Vimeo/Youtube for friends and family to stream, and parents usually need dvds.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I switched to these last year. I do a full black bag/tissue/cardboard confetti wrap with a red bow. I've been pretty happy with them.

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

I deliver my weddings on DVD and USB to each client. The DVDs are on body printed, usually with a photo of the bouquet covering the surface of the disc overlaid with their names and wedding date and in a case with personalised photographic sleeve. The USB stick is a small metal one which has both the video and their stills on, as most of our weddings are for the joint package. The USB is presented in an ivory leather effect small jewellery box which is supplied in a white rigid presentation box. The DVDs and USB are delivered in a white glossy drawstring gift bag.

I've only once been asked for a printed photo book for the photos, which they paid extra for. We offer it as an add on, but I do point out that they can print their own without our overhead costs and even give them the suppliers they can use. I can't be bothered with the hassle of putting together an album, when they are so easy for clients to do themselves online.

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Same Roger +1

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Hi Steve, how did you get on with your writing to USBs in the end?

Roger

Re: 'Selling' USB delivery to clients
 

Hi Roger ye i sorted it, i exported using settings HD H264, bit-rate 8 max 12, vbr 2, level 4.2. The film was around 45 minutes long. The quality was excellent and played on four TVs. A longer film then i would go 6 & max 12. Steve