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-   -   60p (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/wedding-event-videography-techniques/534541-60p.html)

Pete Cofrancesco August 15th, 2017 06:01 AM

60p
 
I've always filmed weddings at 24fps but I'm thinking of renting an 80d and filming everything in 60fps that way I can do slow motion where ever I want and use it to smooth my steady cam, pans and slider shots.

Anyone shoot all in 60 or do you switch back and forth?

Noa Put August 15th, 2017 06:17 AM

Re: 60p
 
When I shoot in HD all my camera's are set to 50P, recent wedding I have started to shoot 4K on all camera's and then it's all 4K 25p except my gh5 which was shooting 4K50P.

Cary Knoop August 15th, 2017 08:41 AM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco (Post 1935547)
I've always filmed weddings at 24fps but I'm thinking of renting an 80d and filming everything in 60fps that way I can do slow motion where ever I want and use it to smooth my steady cam, pans and slider shots.

Anyone shoot all in 60 or do you switch back and forth?

If you shoot everything in 60p how do intend to show both the slow motion and the regular speed shots in the same video?

Practically speaking you can't switch because variable frame rate encodings are not mainstream instead you would need to cut frames to go from 60p to 30p because going from 60p to 24p is not going to be smooth.
Also you would have to adjust your shutter angle to maintain a good flow.

Pete Cofrancesco August 15th, 2017 01:33 PM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary Knoop (Post 1935560)
If you shoot everything in 60p how do intend to show both the slow motion and the regular speed shots in the same video?

Practically speaking you can't switch because variable frame rate encodings are not mainstream instead you would need to cut frames to go from 60p to 30p because going from 60p to 24p is not going to be smooth.
Also you would have to adjust your shutter angle to maintain a good flow.

I havent filmed or edited 60p so I'll give it a try. I believe my editor FCPX takes care of everything. You simply slow the clips you want in the timeline. But it sounds like it would be easiest to film it all at 60p.

Jeff Pulera August 15th, 2017 02:56 PM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cary Knoop (Post 1935560)
If you shoot everything in 60p how do intend to show both the slow motion and the regular speed shots in the same video?

Practically speaking you can't switch because variable frame rate encodings are not mainstream instead you would need to cut frames to go from 60p to 30p because going from 60p to 24p is not going to be smooth.
Also you would have to adjust your shutter angle to maintain a good flow.

Hi Cary,

I think you are missing the point of how this works. You shoot the footage as 60p, and edit as 24p or 30p. Extra frames are disregarded by the editor, for instance Adobe Premiere. The 60p footage in a 30p sequence really just displays every other frame, and looks just like it was shot at 30p.

Now, if you choose 50% speed for a given clip, a one-second clip becomes 2 seconds, because the source has 60 frames every second, so in a 30fps project it takes 2 seconds to play 60 frames = perfectly smooth slow motion.

If editing as 24p, I believe the magic number for slow-mo is 40% speed.

I shoot weddings at 60p and edit/deliver 30p and the slow-mo is silky-smooth that way.

Thanks

Cary Knoop August 15th, 2017 03:16 PM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Pulera (Post 1935574)
I think you are missing the point of how this works. You shoot the footage as 60p, and edit as 24p or 30p.
Extra frames are disregarded by the editor, for instance Adobe Premiere. The 60p footage in a 30p sequence really just displays every other frame, and looks just like it was shot at 30p.

Now, if you choose 50% speed for a given clip, a one-second clip becomes 2 seconds, because the source has 60 frames every second, so in a 30fps project it takes 2 seconds to play 60 frames = perfectly smooth slow motion.

I am not missing the point.
Skipping every other frame works but you would have to take into account the shutter angle.

But from 60p to 24p at normal speed is going to be a problem. You either get stutters or you have to blend frames.

Noa Put August 15th, 2017 03:27 PM

Re: 60p
 
I shoot 50p but edit in a 25p project, this enables me to get smooth looking slowmotion at 50% if I need to slow my footage down. I always shoot at 1/50th of a shutter in low light and just ramp the shutter up to compensate for too much light. I don't use a nd filter because those are too cumbersome at weddings to switch between all my lenses. Not having the "right" shutter does not bother me much as my footage looks great regardless.

Nigel Barker August 16th, 2017 06:29 AM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1935576)
I shoot 50p but edit in a 25p project, this enables me to get smooth looking slowmotion at 50% if I need to slow my footage down. I always shoot at 1/50th of a shutter in low light and just ramp the shutter up to compensate for too much light. I don't use a nd filter because those are too cumbersome at weddings to switch between all my lenses. Not having the "right" shutter does not bother me much as my footage looks great regardless.

I think that shutter angle is a hangover from the days of film that has little or nothing to do with shooting digital video. In my experience you can do as Noa does & use whatever shutter speed is required to match your light conditions without any adverse effects.

Cary Knoop August 16th, 2017 09:17 AM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker (Post 1935588)
I think that shutter angle is a hangover from the days of film that has little or nothing to do with shooting digital video.

I think differently, when you shoot 24p or 25p the shutter angle is very important, it is somewhat less important for 30p.

Noa Put August 16th, 2017 10:28 AM

Re: 60p
 
When I have the time to set up I always follow "the rules" and select the right shutterspeed and use a nd filter to achieve that, I"m aware that it makes a difference but the problem at weddings as a solo shooter is that time is not one of the luxuries I have while trying to juggle multiple camera's and lenses so I prefer to just ramp the shutter to compensate for incoming light.

In practice though the effect from a very high shutter is barely visible because I mostly shoot things that hardly move like a outdoor ceremonie or people having a drink at a reception so for my purpose it works.

Steve Bleasdale August 16th, 2017 01:04 PM

Re: 60p
 
On the canon 80d you can shoot in Mov but only in All-I at 25 fps, or you have to switch to MP4 to shoot at IPB at 25 fps OR shoot at 50 fps. This Mp4 is similar quality and 50 fps second slows down smoother than the 25 fps in ALL-i, in your case 60fps.
When you drop the 50 fps footage into premiere timeline and say you have chosen a dslr 25 fps timeline then it automatically says do you wish to change settings as these are not the right ones (not exact wording but ) So 50 fps second footage in the 25 fps timeline is great then you have the option of then dropping 25 fps footage on the same timeline with no problems and also the other way around. 25 FPS IN 50P timeline. steve

David Barnett August 16th, 2017 01:18 PM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1935599)
When I have the time to set up I always follow "the rules" and select the right shutterspeed and use a nd filter to achieve that, I"m aware that it makes a difference but the problem at weddings as a solo shooter is that time is not one of the luxuries I have while trying to juggle multiple camera's and lenses so I prefer to just ramp the shutter to compensate for incoming light.

In practice though the effect from a very high shutter is barely visible because I mostly shoot things that hardly move like a outdoor ceremonie or people having a drink at a reception so for my purpose it works.

Ever think about switching to the camcorder just for portraits & bridal party shots? It makes it soo much easier for indoor/outdoor usage, and most still capture a beautiful shot outdoors. The ND filter gives so much more control over exposure.

Noa Put August 16th, 2017 03:05 PM

Re: 60p
 
Quote:

Ever think about switching to the camcorder just for portraits & bridal party shots?
I have a sony ax100 that I use as safetywide during the ceremonie but even my little panasonic gx80 combined with a 25mm f1.4 or 42,5mm f1.7 give a much more pleasing look then my ax100. It's that typical dslr look with a shallow dof that a camcorder just cannot mimic.

Steve Burkett August 16th, 2017 03:53 PM

Re: 60p
 
I confess I hate watching video where the shutter speed rule has been broken, including my own. I avoid breaking it whenever possible and nearly always use an ND filter, mainly my variable one, for outdoors. Indoors its even more important, as often anything other than 1/50 can introduce flicker from the lights. With Projectors and some DJ light stands, I set at 1/60 to avoid the same issue.

Outdoors, it distracts me seeing birds make small jumps across the sky rather than smoothly glide across, or see wheels of car turning awkwardly or that awful stop motion effect when people walk. I ignore the rule when needed, but it's a rule that serves a purpose in video.

Rightly or wrongly, I use 1/50 for 50p, as either it's going to be used in 25p at normal speed or at half speed.
So I set it for final frame rate, not the recorded frame rate. There's debate whether that's the right or wrong approach. When I do 50p videos, I use 1/100 shutter speed.

David Banner August 20th, 2017 06:05 PM

Re: 60p
 
When I first started shooting weddings in HD we shot everything in 720 60P because our cameras couldn't do 1080 60P.
Then I started shooting the ceremonies in 1080 30P because I wanted more resolution and liked the motion cadence better of 30P and only shot the receptions in 60P (for slow motion options.)

If I don't expect it to be a lively bunch and no need for slow motion then I shoot the whole thing in 30P.
The exception being my action cameras which record at 1080 60P for both ceremonies and receptions.

60P footage works fine mixed on a 24P or 30P timeline. It plays normal speed but also gives you the option for smooth slow motion.


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