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Old January 8th, 2018, 04:22 PM   #1
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New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Hi everyone, just wanted to plug a new project I am working on, a youtube tutorial series aimed at setting up a wedding videography company from scratch, covering the basics of what kit to buy, how to get new customers, set up social media, how to edit, music licensing etc...

I know there are a few good youtube channels for videographers, but they all see USA based, so I was hoping to create something for the UK folks, but hopefully this will be useful to all newbies!

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLiA13cwnvILZN1TFMElzDMYCzHL3kBMN
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Old January 8th, 2018, 05:24 PM   #2
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

This might seem a silly question, but ... what is the actual benefit from doing this?

Andrew
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Old January 9th, 2018, 05:37 AM   #3
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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This might seem a silly question, but ... what is the actual benefit from doing this?

Andrew
ditto

I could understand if you were charging for this but why encourage people to enter an already overcrowded market & ultimately compete with you?
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Old January 9th, 2018, 06:06 AM   #4
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Hi James,

I would ask the same question as the previous posters i.e. what is the point?

I would also say that having looked at your first three 'tuition videos,' it felt as though you were justifying your own choices rather than actually teaching anything. Your advice on camera choices is not based on any sort of technical appraisal or assessment of advantages and disadvantages of various cameras. You dismiss DSLRs as being photographic cameras and a bit complicated, whilst ignoring the fact that an understanding of the relationships between ISO, aperture, shutter speed etc is essential to getting the best out of still and video cameras. What about the generally much larger imaging chips and interchangeable lenses on DSLRs that is one on the reasons they have become popular with film makers. Choosing the right camera is based on learning what makes a good camera for your own requirements and why.

Anybody can go out and buy a camera, stick it on a 35 tripod as you suggest and call themselves a videographer, but trying to tell people that they can become a successful wedding videographer following that advice is disengenuous.

You freely admit that you are not technically minded, but there is a hell of a lot more to teaching people about a subject than just saying 'this is what I do and it works for me'. You need to be able to teach visual flow, shot composition,using natural and artificial light, colour balance, working in low light, high contrast, use of filters, shallow and deep DOF and myriads of other things.That's before you even get into relationship with clients, family and venues. If videographers don't understand that sort of depth, they will never be more than another Uncle Bob out to make a few pounds and undermining the serious wedding videographers.

Roger

Last edited by Roger Gunkel; January 9th, 2018 at 06:07 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old January 9th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #5
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

I take it that you've never heard the phrase, those that can't do, teach. If you're successful, why encourage competition as others have said.

I also agree with Roger in that you seem to pushing people to buy your choice of cameras, which is at odds with what other Videographers might choose and be happy with. I'd admit I'd be pretty peeved if in my early days, someone had pushed me down your route. In fact I did start with Canon with a 60d and boy did I regret it later on. Changing to Panasonic which I was happier with carried some cost. For that reason, you should look at competition and offer a number of choices rather than just 1 selection.

I read books on Wedding Videography when starting out and whilst gear selection was included, it simply listed a range of cameras at different price points and allowed the readers to choose from them. Pros and cons of each were given but there was no attempt to force the reader down 1 route.
Maybe you should read a few of these books and see how they teach the subject and then apply this to your video tutorials. I would be wary teaching my experiences of Wedding Videography, only because it is my own and there are other methods and ideas that are equally valid. So perhaps see how others are doing Wedding Videography and add that to your teachings.

Also showing them eBay and methods of buying, irrelevant. You're not teaching people to buy cheap goods on eBay, they should know that already. Since everyone has a different budget and means of acquiring gear, I think this part is not needed. Leave the research for good prices to the pupils. It can change quite frequently anyway.

Also the editing by cropping the picture I find a bit distracting. A 2nd camera to the side would produce a nicer effect. It looks too obvious that its the same camera image, but cropped in.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 10:36 AM   #6
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Ugggh, didn't want to watch it, tbh this thread comes off as spam. Read the reviews tho & I was curious as to your camera recommendations section. Tried watching the video, the first 5 minutes taught nothing. You'll lose a ton of interest right there, sorry, get to the point.

Skipping thru the second video, 20 minutes just to price point the equipment you have, with little overall explanation on what they should look for (as mentioned shopping Amazon for your camera/lenses was excessive). I didn't hear much debate over videocamera vs DSLR pros & cons, and I'd probably give 2 or 3 price points (cheap, average, all out investment) for people to consider.

It's just over gratuitous. And the mention of Americans $10,000 dollar beachfront weddings made me lol. I had 2 cold & rainy weddings in Nov/Dec, and a NYE wedding in well below freezing weather. Not mentioned in the video, weddings are hard, lugging gear around, fast paced and run & gun. It should've also explained more about 'A wedding day' in the intro, what goes into it, preparing, talking to the couples, charging batteries, getting there early to avoid traffic, customs etc.

I agree with others you're just gonna set yourself up to be cannibalized by rando's & cheapskates who give it a year or two while undercutting the value.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 04:51 AM   #7
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Hi folks, thanks for the feedback, and I'm sorry if you didnt like it.

Whats the point of making this? Well whats the point of any youtube tutorial? Share what you know, your journey, or fill a niche. Theres some brilliant youtube channels for videographers out there but I dont feel there was anything for this particular niche, so im trying it out. Maybe you dont like it, but this is aimed at newbies, not professionals, and ive had plenty of nice feedback elsewhere from newcomers that said this was helpful and exactly what they were looking for.

I've made it very clear that I am not a gear head or highly technical, and that there are hundreds of other sources on youtube where people can learn the technical nuances of all the things mentioned above, I'm not touching on it because I know there are much more knowledgable people who can do a better job. I'm just offering my advice and experience to people in a similar situation to me.

I personally think that spending thousands on a new camera, only to find out you hate weddings is bad advice. My advice is, buy relatively low price kit, do several FREE weddings and discover how you feel about videography and if its really for you , learn your craft with low end gear before moving on to higher end stuff and real paying clients. Thats my view, you may not agree with it, and thats fine.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 09:35 AM   #8
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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I take it that you've never heard the phrase, those that can't do, teach. If you're successful, why encourage competition as others have said.
That hasn't stopped Ray Roman and other high end videographers to make a ton of money on workshops filled with people who also want a piece from the same pie and it also has not stopped him to continue charging 10K+ for each wedding. :)

And yet here comes James offering the experience he has build up totally for free (although he could start making money if he gets enough subscribers and views) and you all question what the point is then? What would the point of this forum be if people where not willing to share?

I for one would encourage James in his initiative and I wish we had more open minded people like him who are not afraid to share information for free, you may not see the point in doing this but no-one is forcing you to watch his films or to subscribe to his channel. I have skipped a bit through his videos and while he probably will not be teaching me anything new there will be people who will find it helpful, I actually have subscribed to his channel because he made me laugh when he said: "I turn the dial one way or the other and it goes wibbly wobbly" refering to the iris while he was trying to explain shallow dof :) I personally do find it important to know what effect the iso, shutter, f-stop, ndfilters etc have on my image but not knowing all the technical details have not stopped James to make some pretty good films when you check out his website.

I also ask myself why we should fear newcomers (who James is targeting with his youtube videos) who you eventually might have to compete with and who might undercut or undermine you but that means that your level of your work is not better then someone who just picks up his first dslr, or that you are targeting very low budget weddings. Just raise your prices so you separate yourself from those weekend warriors and make the quality of your work reflect your higher pricing. For all I care there will be 10 new videographers every day who might come and go, I will never worry about them because I know my work will stand out and that is what my clients see as well and that's why they are willing to pay more for it, I don't need to compete with cheapskates.

Also, among these "cheapskates" there might be someone being really serious about filmmaking but who is just looking for some guidance to make a start, you can either look at that person as your future competitor and treat them as such or you could also work together with them so you can help eachother out if needed. I have had a few beginning videographers reach out to me the past years for information and I gladly share my knowledge for free, why? Because I wished I had someone that would have helped me when I started out 13 years ago, I had to learn the hard way instead.

So James, don't let anyone discourage you in sharing and use the comments you get, even if they sound negative, as something to improve your blog but you don't have to accept everything they trow at you.
I already see a few positive comments on your videos so it looks like you start to have an audience who appreciates what you do.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 04:37 PM   #9
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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That hasn't stopped Ray Roman and other high end videographers to make a ton of money on workshops filled with people who also want a piece from the same pie and it also has not stopped him to continue charging 10K+ for each wedding. :)
It's an expression about those that can't do, teach. True its not applicable to everyone. And yes those that are successful do teach and I must ask, why. Maybe because charging 10k+ doesn't give them enough work to keep them busy for a year. If it did, they'd find little time to teach would they. And charging people for your knowledge is not the same as offering it for free. Again incentive here.

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And yet here comes James offering the experience he has build up totally for free (although he could start making money if he gets enough subscribers and views) and you all question what the point is then? What would the point of this forum be if people where not willing to share?
Being a part of this forum is part of an online community. Yes we help when asked but its not the sole purpose and often we are helping each other. We are not encouraging new people into the Wedding field.

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I also ask myself why we should fear newcomers (who James is targeting with his youtube videos) who you eventually might have to compete with and who might undercut or undermine you but that means that your level of your work is not better then someone who just picks up his first dslr, or that you are targeting very low budget weddings. Just raise your prices so you separate yourself from those weekend warriors and make the quality of your work reflect your higher pricing. For all I care there will be 10 new videographers every day who might come and go, I will never worry about them because I know my work will stand out and that is what my clients see as well and that's why they are willing to pay more for it, I don't need to compete with cheapskates.
Why should those starting out be weekend warriors or cheepskates. There are few newbies that are charging 1800-2000 in my area alone and clearly have a natural talent if starting new. Perhaps fueled by a University Degree on Film making. On the other hand, those starting out on a smaller scale can impact the market. When supply exceeds demand, market value goes down, often across the board.
Plus quality is subjective. How many couples know exactly what they're paying for; how many do their research. I feel many couples are too ignorant on quality to always recognise it when they see it. I don't think being good always guarantees a successful Business. It would be nice, but the World isn't always that kind. Maybe in your area, quality stands supreme in the clients minds when looking at Videographers; its not true everywhere.

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So James, don't let anyone discourage you in sharing and use the comments you get, even if they sound negative, as something to improve your blog but you don't have to accept everything they trow at you.
I already see a few positive comments on your videos so it looks like you start to have an audience who appreciates what you do.
I made an initial comment about the point of it, which you seized on, but the rest was a critical analysis of the videos, which I stand by. Again, the section showing how to find items on Ebay and Amazon seems superfluous. The options given on gear seem too narrow and more based on what the OP uses himself. I started out by reading books and I felt they were better grounded than the videos I saw.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 04:49 PM   #10
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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Maybe you dont like it, but this is aimed at newbies, not professionals, and ive had plenty of nice feedback elsewhere from newcomers that said this was helpful and exactly what they were looking for.
Well you asked Professionals, so I assumed you were after a Professional opinion. I'm sure it differs from Newbies, but remember, we can see the end game of your advice; they can't. I had some bad advice when starting out, that I only realised later on.

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I've made it very clear that I am not a gear head or highly technical, and that there are hundreds of other sources on youtube where people can learn the technical nuances of all the things mentioned above.
It's not the technical aspects so much. I have only seen the first 3 and they were on gear acquisition. The first part seemed wasted. I'd have liked to have seen more footage from the Weddings to break up the video. Some B roll would be nice. I'm not a fan of talking heads for too long, even though Vloggers tend rely on it, but then they have their own style. That said, I feel its an issue of many tutorial videos. They seem over long, slow to get to the point and meander. So maybe I'm not the target audience. I prefer to read than watch.

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My advice is, buy relatively low price kit, do several FREE weddings and discover how you feel about videography and if its really for you , learn your craft with low end gear before moving on to higher end stuff and real paying clients. Thats my view, you may not agree with it, and thats fine.
I do agree with it. As I said, it's presentation, the narrow range of the gear you recommend, which happens to mirror your own, and the stuff on Ebay and Amazon, which in this day and age is unnecessary. I'd have liked to see a discussion on different camera types. Did you go into 1" sensor cameras vs DSLR; I didn't see it. I started out on small camcorders, though now a hybrid 1" sensor camera is my 1st choice to recommend to new people starting out. Canon XC-10, Sony RXIII and Panasonic FZ2000 come to mind and do better than a Canon 60d. Broaden the range of gear you suggest, tighten up Part 1 and I think the videos would be a lot better.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 05:45 PM   #11
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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And yes those that are successful do teach and I must ask, why.
Why do you think? it's just smart business, they are obvious better businessman then most of us and just cashing in on their own success, there is a lot of extra money to be made and my question would be, why not? Guys like Roman also lift the weddingindustry to a higher level, people who follow his course want to do better and raise their prices and by doing that their work eventually will be better valued. It's because of those that undercharge that weddingvideography will remain undervalued. James is targeting the absolute beginners who probably work for peanuts but everyone has to start somewhere.

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We are not encouraging new people into the Wedding field.
So if someone new to weddingvideography would ask for advice on this forum you think this should not be encouraged?

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On the other hand, those starting out on a smaller scale can impact the market. When supply exceeds demand, market value goes down, often across the board.
That only affects those charging bottom prices, if you charge as low as some untalented weekend warriors you are degrading yourself to their level and you are competing for the same target, you then become a part of the problem the newcomers are causing.

Quote:
Maybe in your area, quality stands supreme in the clients minds when looking at Videographers
Ray Roman once said his highest paying clients where all from the UK and there are a few other videographers in your country that do particularly well, in the UK there is much higher potential to find clients who value video more then you think. I also always thought that in Belgium video was not valued until I started to raise my price up to the level of the higher end photographers and only now I sometimes get booked before a photographer or get asked if I can recommend a photog, I also clearly see they value my work a lot more which is because I charge more, that results in higher expectations so video is not an afterthought anymore, it often becomes that if you target low budget weddings.
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Old January 11th, 2018, 06:48 PM   #12
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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Why do you think? it's just smart business, they are obvious better businessman then most of us and just cashing in on their own success, there is a lot of extra money to be made and my question would be, why not?
Because if I was in their position, I'd rather spend my time filming than teaching. Then again I spent 13 years working in a University before I went fulltime. I'm through with it. Someone like Ray Roman is not typical. I've met plenty of teachers and their income from filming is not quite in the same league. There's more of them than there are the Ray Romans of this World.

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So if someone new to weddingvideography would ask for advice on this forum you think this should not be encouraged?
Helping someone here with a reply that takes a few minutes is not the same as taking time out of earning some money to help competitors get a foothold. You get brownie points for a philanthropic gesture, but as you say even Ray Roman sees the benefit of selling his knowledge as smart Business.

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That only affects those charging bottom prices, if you charge as low as some untalented weekend warriors you are degrading yourself to their level and you are competing for the same target, you then become a part of the problem the newcomers are causing.
As I said, not all newcomers are low weekend warriors. I have seen newcomers charging 1800 to 2000. Many charge my price range, which is higher than weekend warriors. It's a myth to think those starting out come in at the bottom end of the scale. The marketing of cinematic videos tends to favour higher prices.
Besides newcomers don't stay newcomers for long. Maybe 10 years down the line for you isn't an issue, but it is for me. :) Do you see McDonalds teaching other fast food shops how to run a successful Business. Sure anyone watching these videos aren't going to be a threat to your Business immediately, but 5-10 years down the road, it maybe a different picture. The odd bit of advice is fine; giving away all your knowledge for free could just as easily come back to bite you one day. Unless you're in the top league like Ray Roman, but few are.

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Ray Roman once said his highest paying clients where all from the UK and there are a few other videographers in your country that do particularly well, in the UK there is much higher potential to find clients who value video more then you think. I also always thought that in Belgium video was not valued until I started to raise my price up to the level of the higher end photographers and only now I sometimes get booked before a photographer or get asked if I can recommend a photog, I also clearly see they value my work a lot more which is because I charge more, that results in higher expectations so video is not an afterthought anymore, it often becomes that if you target low budget weddings.
Ray Romans clients include Royalty and Sports Personalities; hardly suggests the average Joe in the UK is in the same league. However when I said my area, I didn't mean the UK. My area of the UK doesn't seem to attract high priced Videographers. Those newcomers who charge a lot will come and go or end up travelling far and wide. I for example tend to travel on average 90 mins for Weddings; I rarely get work within 30 mins despite living within 15 miles of 3 cities. I admit I could target different clients if I raised my prices, but I'd be marketing more to clients in other areas of the UK, which can be difficult. Then again I have a very successful Business targeting those at my current level. Yes it brings with it some issues, but then someone I know charging in the 1800 range has to employ a 2nd cameraman on every job, and competes with other high end Videographers that has caused a few issues for him. So we all have our problems.

Last edited by Steve Burkett; January 12th, 2018 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old January 12th, 2018, 02:31 AM   #13
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Why thank you Noa for your kind words!

I dont understand this whole "why teach your competition". You guys do know that Youtube is GLOBAL, right?

E.g If I set up a local class at a university to teach videography techniques, that would be training my competition, as they would set up their own business and compete. If I had someone ring me and ask to work for free on a few weddings to learn, I'd probably say no, same reason. But if I do a video, thats not necessarily going to affect my area. It might, but I doubt it. And if it does cause one to spring up, so what?
If your work is being threatened by the newbie who is offering a few hundred pounds in the first year or so is threatening you, you need to up your game.

Why dont I talk about sensors and stuff? As I made clear - BECAUSE I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. Why should I do a video telling people what I dont have a clue about? Did a knowledge of sensors play any part in my gear choice? I couldnt care less. I use a set of cameras - Canon 6D, Sony A7s , that many top videographers use or have used, why overcomplicate? You get a good camera and you shoot weddings. I dont know a lot about technical things, and so I dont share my limited knowledge because it may be either wrong or misleading, I am trying to show you dont HAVE to do all this stuff if you want to be a wedding videographer. Get a camera, shoot a wedding, learn, improve, get criticism (as savage as this forum is my videos would never be the level they are now without early savaging when I put what I considered my best work on here and it got slated, but that was also incredibly helpful) and improve some more. Works for me, maybe it will work for others.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 02:54 AM   #14
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

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I dont understand this whole "why teach your competition". You guys do know that Youtube is GLOBAL, right?
Agreed, but styles of videos can be influenced by local area. Will your training videos cover the demands and issues an American Wedding Videographer will face. In fact your opening video leads more to UK viewers with talk of rain. Despite living down south, I've done Wedding Videos in Ireland and Scotland and am more than happy to travel further for a good job. YouTube maybe Global, so are the competition. :) That said, you're in no danger of those starting out, but no one stays starting out forever.

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Why dont I talk about sensors and stuff? As I made clear - BECAUSE I DONT KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
I'm not asking you to talk about sensors, just open up your camera choice. As I said before, when I started out, I read books on the subject. I really suggest you look some up. How they handled choice of gear was not technical, but about laying out options. It suggested cameras for those on a small budget, those on a medium budget and those who have a higher budget. Don't assume your audience has the same amount of money to spend. True the idea that they shouldn't spend too much before jumping into Wedding Videography is sound, but most looking into this should already have an interest in Video; maybe they already have a camera or 2 they shoot with. Perhaps its a hobby.
You don't have to be a technical genius to see the pros and cons of hybrid cameras vs DSLR vs Professional Cameras. Or even to suggest the pros and cons of say Sony vs Canon vs Panasonic.

You asked for advice and my advice is open up your gear choice to include other cameras and price range. That's all.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 06:00 AM   #15
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Re: New Youtube series for UK Videographer Newbies

Not an entirely related matter but a couple of illustrations of how some "teacher" and information folks can achieve their "dream" in the face of what can appear to be insurmountable.

First, Canon Rumours, a stills-focused site, has just celebrated its 10th anniversary. And its proprietor makes his living full-time from it. All in the teeth of huge established sites like Fred Miranda and of course DP Review, not to mention the numerous free Facebook sites:

Canon Rumors Turns 10 Years Old

Another, the Digital Wedding Forum, was a child of its time and has now completely disappeared. It had tens of thousands of paying subscribers - my last annual subscription was $129.00 in July 2013. Monthly was much higher. Pretty much anyone who was anyone was an active member and the peer-group information aboard was of great value for a long time.

There are other very decent sites that make decent money. For example Tony Northrup has frequent in depth videos including good stuff on video usage, and another (stills at this point) is Dustin Abbott.

Goodness knows how many of these pop up from no-where and become genuinely successful long-term, but they do.

Video sites are not really in the same league and perhaps they never will be, but who knows.

Pete
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