Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

There seems to have been a big reduction over the last few months of posts relating to anything to do with wedding video work. Previously there was a steady flow of regular input regarding weddings, equipment requirements, methods of working etc, but the well seems to have run dry.

Are we all quietly getting on with business, are there no new people requiring advice, or has some world wide epidemic struck down wedding videographers? Will I be next?

From my own point of view, last year was the busiest ever and this year is at the same level. We have seen an increasing demand for our combined video and photography packages, which now take just about all of our bookings. and clients seem to be booking much further ahead than 3 or 4 years ago. Are others finding a constant level of work, or is the wedding video market shrinking in some areas?

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I think it's just message boards in general. This one is the most active out of the couple I used to visit regularly (others were not video related, but have since faded off nonetheless).

People may have moved on to FB groups, or just their time on social media took away from their free time for a message board.

That said, I had an interesting fall last year. 1 Photogs second shooter didn't show (got the dates mixed up), 1 needed a 2nd shooter for the following day as the 2nd cancelled last minute, 1 DJ cancelled (could have been a money/contract thing, didn't ask) so the Block Party DJ Uncle covered, and I was booked a week or two before (which happens on occasion) only the photog told me her 'friend' videog was supposed to be shooting it. Again, I didn't ask what/why it fell thru, could have been a money/deposit thing but tbh I didn't get along with the photog all that much anyway so didn't bother asking. She had a pretentious way of telling me, as if I wasn't good enough for her. Oh, and 1 of the photogs was shooting his last wedding & getting out of the biz, got a FT job & was stoked over it. That happened the year before too.


I find there seems to be about a 10 year run in this industry. Having kids, losing weekends, also just not getting the business side going. Alot of photographers I run across tend to be friends of, or friends of friends of the couple. Affiliated in some way, which works when you're 25-35ish, but years later that tends to run dry, and you're left to your own advertising/marketing strategy, as well as constant referrals, but less on friends of friends.

I think that's alot different than this message boards slowing down tho, I think that's just the way of the internet lately. I do miss some of the posts/posters & discussions.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

They are all on Facebook. I have been a member of huge wedding videography facebook group with over 11000 members where you also found the more known videographers like Ray Roman, Rob Adams etc but eventually I left the group and Facebook alltogether because I got tired of some big ego's who only talked about how much money they where able to get out of brides as that seemed to be the only thing that mattered, if you where charging anothing below 3K you where doing the entire weddingindustry a disservice.

It was interesting at times when gear was discussed or when new trailers where shown but I got more frustrated over time about the mentality, the sometimes condescending tone and insulting language. There where helpfull and polite people in there but also a bunch of a-holes.

You have few trendsetters who are measured on how much they make and then you have a lot of followers who are after the same pot of gold, I just don't fit into that group because I don't follow trends and just do what I like, this was also one of the reasons I left the group because I was not learning anything new. Also posts disappeared as quickly as they appeared so if you read something interesting today it most likely was burried down deep tomorrow and difficult to find again if there was no reactions.

I"d prefer to engage more with videographers who have a documentary style and who show a wedding like it was, not with the intention to make it look like fake cinema but those are Facebook groups are harder to find, if they even exist and since most interaction on dvinfo has died that just leaves me with more time to finish my weddingfilms :)

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

It's true that all the major forum sites (like this one) have been hit hard by FaceBook groups. But it's not over yet, by a long shot. Noa has already pointed out the major problems that exist in FaceBook groups. He's absolutely correct in his assessment. I'm actually seeing a bit of a resurgence in forum activity as more and more people get turned off by those groups (and by FaceBook in general). Almost every day I get requests for password resets from folks who've been away from the forum for awhile.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

What was the name of that group ???

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I'll remove the name or link of any FaceBook group.

Thanks for understanding when I say that this forum community is by far superior to any FaceBook group, and not just because we don't make you the product like FaceBook does.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

You won't find it back on Facebook, they changed the group from "closed" to "secret" not that long ago so you only will get in if you are invited.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Meanwhile, this forum is readable and searchable by anyone and everyone (no log-in required), is indexed by Google, is organized into an archived list of topics, and requires no invitation to get in.

(I guess I need to work on making it mobile-friendly though...)

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Facebook is the new AOL, and we all remember what the "A" stands for...

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Some interesting comments, and I do think that this forum is much less about self promotion than the facebook groups and more about general discussion. I've tried a couple of FB groups but rapidly lost interest through the lack of real depth.

Like Noa, I have never been a trend setter or fashion follower, doing my documentary coverage in my own way. David mentioned about a fairly short lifespan of wedding videography businesses. Over my 34 years in the business, I have seen a lot springing up like mushrooms overnight with glossy packages and prices to match, but they seem to disappear again almost as quickly. I think his comment about friends and family contacts is probably quite true and I suppose I am fortunate in not having come down that route, always having had to promote for clients.

On the occasions that we have a video only shoot, the photographers tell me that they rarely see a videographer, so I think that the combined package has kept our bookings up, particularly with those that may not have had a video otherwise.

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Funnily enough we have seen a huge surge here in wedding videographers, especially female ones so they could easily be photographers who are tired of competing with hundreds of others trying to make a living. I honestly don't think any Facebook group can even come close to Chris's DVInfo .. the only ones I'm part of are purely local ones that I use for advertising not for support. If I need help I will automatically come here as I have always done. You cannot really compare this forum to any I have ever seen on Facebook. Sadly for us Facebook is a necessary evil for self promotion as that is where the brides hang out but certainly not any use for support or general discussion on video.

Keep up the good work Chris

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Next time you need help, just send the ticket to this side of the pond Chris.

I agree that Facebook has taken the place of some wedding forums. I was a member of the Wedding Wire professional forum until Wedding Wire got tired of hearing how bad they are from vendors and shut it down. So it moved to Facebook and has had some success in terms of supporting each other.

But as a member of DVinfo.net, much of my success has come from the support on this board. This board is a virtual encyclopedia of everything video.

I just hope one day to find the secret secret secret room here where they have free donuts.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hi Steven

I always do ..my first port of call is always DVInfo ... As already mentioned I only join Facebook groups to advertise ..never used them for support at all.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I avoid Faceache as it's just such an unholy mess. The structure of forum software allows for questions, answers is persistent & searchable. There are so many advantages over the dumb rambling conversational mode of FB groups. It also helps that there are relatively few contributors so there is more of a "family" atmosphere.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I think as others said, Facebook has played a part in reducing new members, plus when I joined discussions were on the still controversial area of using DSLR like cameras for Weddings as opposed to "proper video cameras". However since many of those who were against DSLR have now turned to the dark side along with the rest of us, there's less to argue and debate over. :-)

Plus work is a lot busier now. Thanks to Ray Roman and his like teaching the merits of co static short videos, demand for longer videos is not always being met. I've got almost 90 Weddings on the book this year. But it does mean I edit more and spend less time on the internet.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

In the UK at least the number of weddings each year is inexorably going down despite an increase in population.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I know at least some of the wedding shooters here know I am one of the few "event guys" that frequents this section. I don't say much about wedding specific things because thats not my specialty. But I chime in when I have something to contribute. I have followed the posts here for many years.

I am glad the subject of declining participation came up. I have avoided the subject out of respect for Chris. I did not know how to bring it up properly. I do know that Chris has always had a very hands off approach to governing this site. He has said many times that it is OUR community. So....I am not speaking for him and I hope he corrects me if I am wrong. I think we can all help this amazing forum thrive again. It is not just the wedding and event subforum that is lacking in participation. It is forum wide. At one time the numerous wedding guys were almost a forum of their own. Some of you asked all of your technical questions here regardless of the topic, because you wanted to hear from wedding guys. Even if it was about audio, lighting cameras etc. In the last couple of years I have noticed several of the veteran wedding guys active in many of the other subforums. I would encourage all of you to do that. Lately there are new boots and returning members checking us out. You will find them in the other forums. Some of you guys have an amazing amount of knowledge and experience to share. By branching out of the wedding forum for technical discussions in the proper category you will help bolster the community as a whole.

DVINFO is and always has been the best information resource for video professionals and enthusiasts. Let's do everything we can to RALLY and keep this place strong. We are all video professionals, we just happen to shoot different specialties. There is a wealth of information here and it is all over this forum.

Kind Regards,

Steve

And thank you Chris Hurd for providing an information resource for me since 2002!

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hey Steve

At over 8000 posts (mostly here too!) This is my most valuable resource if I need advice or can give it too. I have noticed that because we are in the Southern Hemisphere we are just exiting Summer but the vast majority of people that post here are just exiting Winter and not many brides choose a chilly Winter wedding. The forum always perks up around end of May anyway so not to worry! I really don't think the slowing down of activities is anything to worry about and very few groups on Facebook have technical wedding questions ..To be honest I haven't seen any "Wedding Video" or "Event Forum" groups on Facebook so I really cannot see the issue ... DVInfo still (and will always be) my first choice when my computer gets turned on as already said, we are a family. You can post a question here and go to bed and you will be sure some kind soul has answered you in the morning ..You don't find help like that anywhere else!

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

That's because the biggest ones are completely hidden from view, one I attended for a while had over 11000 (but could also been 13000, don't recall exactly) members and new posts every day, sometimes responses on posts where maybe 2 or 3 or sometimes no reactions but sometimes quickly ran up to a hundred in a very short timepriod. There is more going on on Facebook then meets they eye :)

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

More members isn't a good thing. Debate even amongst a small group can get out of hand as we can all testify to on this site. A site with over 10000 contributing is almost impossible to admin properly and I find frequently Facebook comment sections encourages short but pointless replies. I rarely contribute to any groups I belong to. For some its gets quite addictive, until social media becomes more important than your real life.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I am a new commer in the video work as it started as a bit of a hobby. My main thing is computer repairs and lighting as in stage lighting for shows. What started me was coveing for a friend at a event that he could not do as he was not well that night.

I enjoy reading the post here on the forum and have learned a lot from you guys here and even if someone seem to have asked a stuped question it still get answered nicely and it you all make it seem like it was not a stuped question as it may help others out who may not want to ask.

I spend more time on here and other forums alike not just the video world but to do with lighting as well.

I am a member of a few facebook groups and they are not the same as a lot of te forums out there. I find that they are very much for pros who will not ask the obvious and if a new commer does ask one they are made feel they should know the answer and if they don't they should not be doing it.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hey Tony

If you have a question that needs an answer then how can it be stupid. Remember we not only ask questions on DVInfo but we also answer questions ... I might have a huge problem with filming under stage lighting which I cannot solve myself but you can and that's where the "family" part comes in..if you don't ask questions you never learn and part of the family is to also give your opinions and help to others who have a lot less experience than you have. That's where is works so well!!

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hi Chris,

Thats why I like the forums. everyone is treats each other like they are family and there is no hate in answering question.

I know alot of people say facebook is destroying forum it maybe but there is always be forum that stand out better than groups on facebook. It is also easier to search and find posts and things alike on a forum than on facebook. I find facebook sometime it pick what it wants you to see not what you want to see which gets up my nose and that putting litely

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Some facebookgroups can be a bit hostile and you are right that newcomers generally are looked down upon, much has to do with the often almost complete absence of moderation and it can take quite a while before a admin reacts to discussions that compelety have derailled. The same if you are a budget shooter you get blamed for taking the entire industry down, it's also the most asked and discussed topic, how much you make and how much you could be making. The bigger names in the industry make good use of those discussions to silently promote their workshops. The most given tip how to make more money is to see what you are charging now and double that, that's it, genius right? :)

I also have to say that they also do contain a lot of valuable stuff like when they talk about gear or some members can also be very helpfull, not all are big egos, I once had someone translate a entire Kantonese speech into english for me so that I could edit it myself so these groups have been an advantage to me, as long as you are able to filter though the crap there is some good to be found.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Where have all the Brides gone? well for me thats the problem!
Seems like a lot here are happy with a few clips on a smartphone and a couple of minutes live on Facebook, then thats it.

Theres only about three or four videographers in my immediate area and maybe they're getting everything I dunno, but it's dried up for me. Perhaps the millennials arent as into video - who knows?

I still have stills work coming up, even bookings for next year, but nada for video.

I've already sold off some of my video gear.

Oh yeah! as far as Facebook is concerned I've never been a member, never will either, I think it's toxic, maybe that why I'm not getting clients! still not going to join up tho.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hi Rob,

Last year was our busiest ever year and this year we have equalled it, although the vast majority of our weddings are for the combined video and photography package. Because we find it easy to combine both we can give a big discount over the price of both individually, so we find that many couples who may not have thought about video are attracted by the combined price.

It could also be down to marketing, which we keep very personal. We do around 10 medium and small wedding shows per year which give us a chance to talk face to face with couples and they have been very successful for us. We also have a Facebook business page, which was slow for the first few months, but after a couple of years now it brings in a steady flow of enquiries. We keep a regular blog on FB so that couples can see what we have been doing and enjoy seeing what other couples have done. Many couples come back to the page regularly even months and years after their wedding just to view other weddings and keep in contact. We also make a point of visiting every single enquiry, as it gives a chance to show both our video and photo work. We put taster pictures on the FB page, which clients love and it gives a chance for others to see our work. One of our recent wedding's taster pics had around 1500 shares amongst their family and friends. If you message me, I'll be happy to give you our FB address to give you some idea of how we use it and comments from clients.

I think personal visits are the best possible sales tool, as our success rate of visits to bookings is over 90% and it gives a chance to build a rapport with the couple. If they like your work, it often comes down to whether or not they like you and we often hear stories of how friends of our clients didn't get on with other photographers and videographers. Investing your time in the sale pays dividends in my opinion.

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hi Rob

I guess we should be envious that Roger is doing well but he does work very hard on his marketing and doing photo/video packages also helps! Brides seem to like "all-in-one" packages so maybe team up with some other suppliers

I dislike Facebook too but I do advertise in Facebook groups ..You don't need to be active on your own page and post what you had for lunch and what colour socks you have on today!! Just an occasional post in bridal groups and a link to your webpage is all you need.

The biggest issue where we are is best shown by a post yesterday where a bride was asking for a videographer as hers was already booked for December ...the booked videographer was charging her $450 to cover the ceremony and reception up to the end of the first dance ..Are you kidding me? Excluding booking chats, travelling etc etc she would clock up at LEAST 6 hours or more shooting and at LEAST a day to edit and package ... Just based on hours she is earning $30 an hour before any running costs!! I wouldn't even try to compete with those prices and I'm sure you wouldn't either ..!! Our live stream shoots (which are edited live so NO post processing) are at least double these prices. Maybe she shoots the wedding on an iPhone but I have no idea but something like this would definately make videographers look elsewhere for work!!

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Hi Chris,

I think the combined package has brought in a lot of video work that we may otherwise not have had, but it's definitely about a balance between marketing, quality, price and relationship with the client. Your $450 lady may just be filming with one handheld camera and have limited editing. That's why we place so much emphasis on making sure that potential clients know exactly what they are getting for their money and encourage them to check carefully what others supply.

Although we have as much work as we want, I don't think we are anywhere near the number of weddings that Steve Burkett has, although I wouldn't want to handle that editing load. In the UK, I think there is plenty of work out there if you market correctly. For the real big money, you probably need to involve more operators and delegate some of the work to employees/subcontractors, but at my age I don't have a requirement any more to build an empire.

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Everyone is holding out for 2020 dates.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Thanks Roger

Yeah combined packages certainly do help a lot!! Nope I haven't seen what this lady produces but I wonder if brides base their decision on a single demo clip ... she does photos too at just as crazy prices ! On Facebook she has a long list of new brides saying "PM me I'd like to book!" Even if you have a full time job I wonder if working for minimum wage rate is worth it?? If she adds up her costs she's probably working for under $20 an hour!! They all seem to be either cutting each other's throats or offering a host of free extras like 3 videographers, drones cranes and work until midnight!! I'm glad we are out of that side of video!!

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Yeah for $450 I'd guess its single camcorder, very little post/editing. If you do it right I suppose it could be an ok setup so long as your customers aren't expecting much. Could be a 2nd revenue stream like a side job (weekend warrior) or the hubby works M-F while she cares for the kids & then she runs out & make a decent wage for essentially 1 days work.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

They are holding out for a long time then as numbers have been in decline since 2012.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Overall weddings may be in decline, but we have seen a gradual increase in our bookings to our highest levels. At the moment 2019 is slightly down on last year at the same time, but early days as yet and we have a lot of wedding shows still to go. Danny might well be right on 2020 though as we are getting more enquiries than usual for that far ahead.

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Is getting a lot of requests for wedding video and or photo also not for a bigger part a result of targetting budget brides who don't have the budget for paying more then 1K for video or even video/photo combined?

I increased my price every year and the number of requests go down because of that, if I would lower my price by 50% the number of requests would triple.

From experience I know that the budget bride market in my country is huge, that can result in getting a lot of requests if your price is low enough but also a lot of work you have to put into it for a lower rate per hour.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

It's not quite as simple as that Noa. I've had budget Brides pay over £1100 for my combined service for a Wedding in a village hall, whilst a Bride getting married in a plush stately home having spent a fortune on the Wedding have booked my cheapest package.

A few years back my bookings were bad. However with marketing I've turned that around. Budget Brides are not easy pickings and a low price doesn't guarantee an easy ride.

Hourly rate depends on the hours you put into each Wedding. Someone offering a 20 min cinematic movie may spend more time than I working on a 2 hour documentary edit. I spent no more than 2 hours on a 5 minute Highlight video. I imagine those charging almost £2000 to put in more hours than that for such a cost.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I think a lower price and combination packages tick a lot of boxes too, like offering video and photo combined, or adding interviews or like I believe you do, marryoke or droneshots etc. The more you cram into one package at a affordable or low enough price the more chance you"ll have people want to book you.

If you charge a few Thousand for just one 5 minute film then they won't be lining up at your doorstep.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Thanks for the offer Roger and the input Chris, but I'm just not going to join Facebook, I suppose I should do more marketing but at this stage, I'm tempted to let it fade, probably burnt out at this point.
I used to offer combined packages Photo/Video but it was too much for one person. The problem here is that the photographer scene has reached over saturation, lots of peeps buy a black camera and boom! your a photographer! These are the people who'll undercut to such an extent that their working for very little, I had it before where a bride before we finalised a agreement said, can you match a all day gig for €200, I told her to jump at it, I don't know what she got in the end.
Undercutting isn't so prevalent in the video end of things, I think because equipment costs a lot more and editing skills are more demanding. I've seen photogs arriving with just one camera! no backup no tripod some using on-board flash!
But still having done some research locally many seem not to be bothering with video.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Marryoke aren't what they were. They've tailed off quite dramatically. That's what happened 2 years back and not my bookings hard.
As for Drones. It's an expensive add on for my packages and not necessarily granting me extra bookings. I'm doing no better than last year. At the moment I'm using it as a freebie, surprising the couple often when they see the footage. I only first starting flying it start of March. Official Bookings I have for it come later in the year, though the first ironically is for a village hall wedding in June. At the moment I'm practising as much as possible. Hence couple get it for free for now.

Most of my Weddings are just standard filming. In fact I've cut back on the extras i throw in or made them chargeable.

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

I think it totally depends on how you go about your promotion and what sort of quality you offer. We go to great pains to show our work to potential clients, and ask them to compare it with other suppliers. If you are losing work to £200 photographers, then either you are overvaluing your work, or the client is not aware of the differences between yours and the £200 tog. Or of course they just don't care. It doesn't really matter how much or little you charge, there is always a client base for your price range, you just need to talk to those people. If folks wanted a Bentley they wouldn't buy a Ford.

Roger

Re: Where have all the wedding videographers gone?
 

Our prices range from £795 to £1495 and I consider that a mid range price in the region we live. We don't deliberately target any budget brides but our prices are always on view, so some with a lower budget may want to see what they get for what they consider our higher price, and others looking for a higher price may also look at what they see as our lower one. We get clients from a huge range of wedding budgets ranging from £100K weddings down to £5K weddings. What they are all interested in is the quality of our work in relation to their own expectations.

I also think that the rate per hour is a red herringt as it is my annual income that I am interested in and how much leisure time I get. I usually allow 1-2 weeks to edit a wedding, so you could argue that amounts to 2x40 hour weeks or 80 hours. I would argue that I might actually only spend 10-15 hours editing during that 2 week time slot. If it's a nice day we might decide to go off to the coast, or go camping, maybe some decorating. What is important is maintaining your quality of life and income whilst having total freedom to work as you want.

Steve said that he has 90 weddings booked this year, he could triple his price and get less weddings for the same income, or maybe quadruple them and get even less and more leisure time. The one thing that is easy to forget though is that losing one wedding from a very small number of high earners is a big hit. Steve losing one from 90 makes little difference at all!

Roger