Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

One thing I'll admit to, I think I made a mistake in using Vimeo as opposed to Youtube. This just hit recently, but they're a social aspect & SEO/algorithm reasons YT seems it had a better payoff in the long run, albeit moreso in the last 2 years I'd say.

Ironic, because early on brides seems more concerned to NOT have their videos put on youtube, opening it up for the world to see and 15 year olds to comment on & mock their wedding day. Now however, couples seem used to or expecting it to be on YT. I & alot of us used Vimeo for its professionalism and streamlined video hosting purpose, while doing without any social aspect. Kinda saw the trees but not the forest.

Also, just to have better mastered it as a whole. It's dashboard & interface takes some tinkering around with to figure out all the intracacies to it, including things that could be more practical to business/corporate promotions and marketing tools & videos.

I think Facebooks on its way out. Even already you're better off mastering Instagram than getting onto FB to attract the younger demo. In America at least, its basically going to become (if not already, there's jokes & memes about it) "Where old people go to argue about politics".

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi David

Dunno about the claims that Facebook is on it's way out but at the moment it seems to be where the brides hang out .. over here we have a myriad of wedding groups that both suppliers and brides can join and of course you can even create a new one if you want to. Brides tend to post in these groups "I'm looking for a photographer/videographer" and it's honestly scary when she gets something like 60 odd desperate vendors saying "pick me. pick me" We certainly have a glut of vendors that have sprung up in the last 12 months all fighting for business and cutting each other's throats. If you want demo video exposure brides still expect it on Facebook here.

Honestly a year or so ago there might have been no more than 10 local videographers sharing the spoils and charging fair prices but that has just multiplied over and over including most photographers also claiming a piece of the action as video/photo experts!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I can only speak on my own markets, but I find the business is thriving, and I have the opposite problem. Being pulled into it as the safest road to lucrative video production, but not really having the passion for it and wanting to do other stuff.

I've always loved the appreciation from couples, and it's a great feeling to have created something meaningful for someone.

I just find it so stressful. I've done about 100 now and it never really goes away. Not because of the couples themselves, but the circumstances. Racing around, finding parking. Setting up 2-3 cameras and audio sources by myself, shooting around guests. All the usual wedding production stuff you're all familiar with.

Doing corporate videos, other live events, hell even TV and film camera OP work is so much easier. Every other form of video production feels like a day off compared to a wedding.

I was in Vancouver, and I'm now in the DC area. Both areas are saturated with companies, but both also have a never ending stream of wealthy clients willing to pay good money. Even half assed wedding wire profiles and word of mouth is enough to get a decent amount of bookings. Might not apply for some small town in Idaho, though.

I think forums are on their way out, sadly. Not just here. DVXUSER, creative cow, all of them have way less traffic than they did 10 years ago. Most of it now is either on reddit or facebook groups. Reddit isn't bad, but facebook groups are a messy way to have conversation. Plus they both seem to skew younger, and I appreciate the perspective from older folks in the industry.

I especially liked this forum, because there was a much stronger human experience element being discussed. There's gear talk of course, but I like threads like these that discuss other people's experience in the field and how things are going for them, their thoughts on the creative direction of the industry etc. Sometimes I feel like reddit and facebook groups are %100 focused on obsessing over the latest gear, and it gets tiresome.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Weddings can be quite stressful and this year Claire and I made a decision to do away with the solo wedding bookings and concentrate just on those that we both do together. Last year we took on too many and the result was that we were working 7 days a week for most of the time and still falling behind with the editing. This year we will be having some of our life back and getting some 'us' time.

We did exhibit at another small wedding show last Sunday and had some serious interest that we hope will transform into some new bookings. We had a mix of new couples, some previous clients coming round with friends and some that had already booked us and just came by to say hello. We like to create a good rapport with couples and always get a buzz out of seeing them months or years after their wedding. It's also very interesting to get their views on how they feel some time down the road on their photos and video. It gives the opportunity to see how we can improve or add to what we do. The other thing I like about wedding shows is that we get a feel for how couples feel about other suppliers and their approaches to clients.

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I can relate to the stress side guys! However what we do now is far less stressful and because there is no editing I have heaps of me time. We also have very few city based Church weddings nowdays and the ability to be able to drive into a venue with ample free parking makes life a LOT easier ...This Saturday I'm doing a ceremony at 2:00pm at a local park and I can actually choose where I want to park to minimise carrying gear to the wedding area. The second is on the beach with again with tons of parking. OK we don't make nearly as much money as we used to but we have normally the entire week free as "editing" is now comprised of copying the recorded footage onto a USB as a backup!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Weddings are stressful and I can understand you can get to a point where it's not worth it. However I'm not at that point. There are plenty of jobs out there that can be stressful. I've done a few. They didn't though give me the satisfaction I get when at the end of the day, I've done a good date filming, or when I'm sending off a completed full length Wedding Video or Highlights piece. If your hearts not in it, then give it up. Or if you're doing too much, pull back.

It's our own lives in the end, and how much we wish to give to our work is down to us in the end. I do agree Wedding work is probably the toughest video work you can get. Especially if you're working alone. Expectations are so much higher now.

Oh and I can relate to the parking. Last Sunday, the Ceremony was in West London and I had to park half a mile from the civic building it was taking place in. Then the Reception was at a restaurant where there was no parking spaces left and I had to park on double yellow lines. Thankfully so did many of the guests, so I wasn't the only one. Being late Sunday, we were all spared a parking ticket. However such days are very much the exception for me. Most of the time, parking isn't a problem.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I think doing them solo has been the killer for me. Just having a second set of hands to help move stuff quickly, or have one person find parking while the other gets to the location with a camera can make all the difference.

I would even joke to my wife about having to remember not to be in "wedding mode" while we're driving for leisure. If we miss a turn, miss a light, and have to spend an extra few minutes, it doesn't matter! I'm so conditioned to needing those minutes really badly and being on edge about them while working.

But as was said above, the feeling after a long day with well captured footage will always be satisfying, not to mention delivering the finals.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I have often had to ask my wife to drop me and my gear off if it's a city wedding with dubious parking ..I then will give her a call when I'm done ...However that only works for a fixed venue sadly and it's tough to expect your partner to spend the whole day as your driver ! If parking is likely to be a problem I will leave early just to be safe but often I get there maybe anything up to 90 minutes early and find a parking straight away so I have to sit on my bum for ages AND I don't get paid for that extra time! I wonder if brides even realise that if we film, say, a Church service for 45 minutes we actually spend a LOT more time than 45 minutes!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Great thread but slow forum these days.
I'm in the process of adding a couple new services to my wedding offerings - live streaming and a photo booth.
Also expanded my photography gear to offer photography in the future but skills not good enough for that yet.

The info about making a facebook group is interesting. I really dislike FB and haven't been on in several months (with no intention of getting on soon) but you guys do have a point that brides nearly always have their phone attached to them and are on FB.
So I'll have to deal with it because that is where they are.

In my area I'd say the market is not great. 20 years ago there were few competitors doing video but today there are DOZENS. And many of them will do it CHEAP.

As far as the talk about forums going away, I hope not. Things sure are slow on the video forums I'm on, indeed. I find these a valuable place and since I work most of the time visiting on the forums is my fun time. You guys have been great since I first signed on here in 2011.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi David

I switched to live streaming so I could create a niche market that the cheap weekend warriors couldn't get into (or were too lazy to) It is a way to work smarter not harder as you can reduce your prices (only if you have to) but shooting with a couple of static cameras feeding a switcher on a computer means that you can edit live so all the previous edit time becomes pure profit ..even if brides don't want a live feed it's still a cost effect way to record a ready to view wedding video ..no more waiting either for brides as you can deliver just days later!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I'm not sure laziness is the reason weekend warriors have failed to jump onto live streaming. Most weekend warriors are exploiting a hobby for extra cash. Putting their work online for their friends to see. Live streaming may not give them that same satisfaction as a well made Highlights Video.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

In 2017/2018 (after nearly 20 years) I really began moving away from doing wedding videos to doing wedding photos.

Photos is just easier and way more forgiving and a quite frankly a lot less equipment and hassle. Of course the trade off is the responsibility is quite a bit greater because the photographer is usually running the day.

I can show up, shoot the day, upload to my edit shop and relax... vs having to try and edit a video. I know there are video outsource shops, but again photo outsourcing is cheaper.

I have clients fork out $2000-$4000 and not even bat an eye for photos... but man trying to get $2000 for a film is a challenge.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

This is part of what bugs me about the wedding industry. Plus, twice I've worked with photographers who were shocked at the amount of time it took to edit them. (The first was a photog who was trying to dabble in video more and knew limited editing skills, so that was quite an undertaking, which he admitted. The other was more a guy with a video background who ventured into wedding photography and offered a video for a friend. Just let a few weeks go by & mentioned how hard to pick it back up is after time as passed. He said photo editing is more something you can start/stop with ease, whereas video you need to get in a rhythm or in the mindset of the wedding.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I’ve done both. With photography more of the skill and work is in the front end. Get those great shots, properly, pose, frame and expose then the rest isn’t hard. With video more time and thinking is on the backend.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Seriously video SHOULD cost more than photos too but wedding photos are traditional so they have a higher pecking order! If you think about it you can produce a very nice set of wedding photos on a good sub $1000 bridge camera and a (decent flash if you do the reception too) and a 20 -24mp sensor will produce a very pleasing image to 99% of brides. With video to stay competitive nowdays you need multiple cameras, gimbals or a stedicam and then a drone is almost mandatory too as brides expect it! There is a much higher capital investment and a lot harder work with video compared with photos I guess brides still like the fact you can physically pick up a photo album and show it around so it has a higher perceived value If I was given an option to do a wedding for say $2000 and had the choice of video or photos I would choose photos every time ..less gear to carry, no audio to worry about and really a lot easily day!!

But I'm still a videographer and that's what I enjoy even if it's lower paid and harder work it's simply the fact that we are lower down the list on bride's priorities!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Our joint video and photography package is still our most popular, but when we take a photography only package, it feels almost like a day off compared to video. With video you are trying to follow the action, setting up multiple cameras, trying to remain unobtrusive and working around the photographer, then all the editing. With photography I am in control, setting up poses, controlling the timing, no tripods and loads of gear to haul around and a much closer relationship with the family and friends. Editing and processing is far quicker.

Photography is more competitive, but our joint package has a very limited number of competitors.

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

(I'm starting to sound like a cranky old man now, lol) And that's another thing!! Nearly all the weddings I do there's a 2nd shooter for photos. Almost all. Occasionally I worked with a single shooter, who usually isn't even complaining just goes with the flow. I shoot video solo, and although 2 shooters seems like its becoming more popular, it's not nearly as common as photography imho. Plus I would need to raise my prices significantly to bring a 2nd shooter.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I've rarely seen a second photography shooter who contributes anything worthwhile to the shoot and constantly gets in the way of the video. Most photographers seem to employ a second shooter simply so they can charge more. We worked with one a couple of weeks ago who said that she frequently uses her 16 year old daughter or her husband, both of whom know nothing about photography, just to look like they are taking photos. Apparently a lot of her clients expect two photographers and pay more for it!!!

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Well I feel like a bit of an odd ball as a 61yo and about to embark on a videography career.
I've been dabbling with wedding videos for years on and off and when my day job finishes this December my plan is to go full time with wedding and event videography.
I'm already in the planning stages and learning more about social media marketing etc.
I've been reading this forum for a few years now, but I haven't had much to contribute, I'm sure that will change.
Its fascinating reading some of the stories and seeing the trends in gear. I only have a Sony A6000 and a couple of Sony domestic high end video cameras and a Sony FDR-AX3000 action cam at the moment but they have all served me well.
Before I kick off properly I'll probably buy a A6400 and one or two AX700's so I can get away from interlaced, oh and a gimbal and a Fresnel light and more stands and more audio gear.....and perhaps some streaming gear.....oh dear the shopping list is growing:-).
Anyway, I wonder who else is lurking on the forum and not saying anything. Please have a say.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Don't forget you need a drone too Merv if you want to keep up with your competitors ..that's probably the main reason why I simplified everything and went back to single camera shoots but in a niche market!

I found that the capital expenditure just wasn't worth what brides were willing to pay and a lot of your competitors have a couple of DSLR cameras from the discount house online and if they do have a drone they are perceived as better than you regardless of the fact that it is a semi-toy rather than a professional unit. Then again it's all about marketing too ..if I can offer a 6 camera shoot at a wedding as opposed to your two camera shoot then I am better than you ..the fact you have top of the range Sony's and I have 6 GoPros doesn't even enter the bride's head!!

Don't even worry about age mate ..I'm turning 73 this year and still do weddings and commercials shoots ..it's called experience!!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I've also discovered that I really am starting to hate the 6-8 hours it takes just to pick out music (aka find it) for these short wedding films. It really sucks. lol

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

What's even more critical Kyle is that if you do take 6 to 8 hours to find suitable music do you cost for that in your pricing?? Even at a mere $75.00 an hour that would add $600 to the video price which on top of your normal costing can easily make you a lot pricier than your competition!!

I wonder how many wedding videographers have actually costed out a wedding correctlyand see what you really should be charging ? I found that to do a full wedding from prep thru to midnight comes out to a costing that simply makes your price out of the question. Next time you are free, try adding up the actual wedding hours you spend including consulation, travelling, on-site on the day and post production then add your standard business expenses like insurance, fuel and media and see what you are REALLY making as an hourly wage??

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Our cost price, excluding wages is around £900.

So just to turn up at someone's wedding. Cost of fuel, electricity for charging, camera and equipment depreciation, maintenance, music licencing, credit card chart s etc.

So when we get those emails, that say how we should do their wedding for under £1000 and be lucky to attend their wedding I wonder how many other guests are giving the a gift worth as much as us turning up.

It's expensive what we do. It's expensive to keep reinvesting, fixing and to correclty store and keep their data.

I just done get those who we know use the search kit bag as us charge below cost price.

Julie has a little spreadsheet of our costs.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

It's been a while since I posted here, I'm on my 12th year doing wedding videography and to that I have added photography and photo booth services which really gives more headache and responsibility.

My marketing method is only through my website which is well optimised for SEO and word of mouth from my clients. I don't offer anymore highlights for I found it time consuming just looking for suitable music for the couple, instead I offer a full feature 60-70 minutes online streaming and also a USB, Blu-ray delivery.

For now, doing what I love to do is still okay but not as great 12 years ago.

Rickey
https://iclickfilms.com

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Rickey,,

Yup, still doing it after 37 years although my wife is slowly persuading me to do other things while she takes over the weddings.

We added photography as a combined package a few years ago and that has worked well for us, with the addition of a simple booth if asked for at extra cost. We do documentary style full feature with highlights as a paid for optional extra.

Most work for us is from our regular wedding shows, recommendation and Facebook/website.

Roger