Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

There doesn't seem to have been much wedding chat recently, so just wondered how everyone was doing for the coming year.

Last year was our busiest ever, but we took on too much as we hate to turn work down, but it slowed up our editing and led to delayed deliveries compared to normal years. We kept everyone informed of delays, but it meant no time for a life for us and a decision to cut out the double wedding bookings for 2019.

By the end of last year, 2019 was looking a bit thin on the ground and although we had a roll over into 2019, we were beginning to think it would be a very quiet year. We exhibited at 3 wedding shows over 3 weeks in January with our favourite one being the last of the 3. We have a policy of engaging couples in conversation about their wedding at shows, but won't take bookings as we always visit them first. Before we had arrived home from the last show, we already had 5 email enquiries from it. We had decided this year that Claire would take over the visits to potential clients and has made 11 visits in 16 days. 10 of those were from the same show and she has converted every one to a full booking. We have a further 9 reserved dates from the 3 shows and so far they are the best results we have ever had in such a short time. The dates are split between 2019 and 2020 and we have just had a couple of new ones for 2021.

We have found that couples seem to like the sound of 2020 rather than 2019 and we have turned down 5 enquiries for 20/06/20 which seems to be the must have date. It also appears in the UK that weddings seem to be becoming more popular again, perhaps as a result of the Royal weddings.

We have also found the Facebook has been good for us, with regular enquiries, usually from friends of couples we had previously filmed. People also seem to like the fact that they can see a lot of reviews and follow a blog about our weddings. We have also decided to increase our prices considerably from 2020 as new and past couples have regularly told us that they think our service is worth more, so who are we to disagree :-) We will include some extras that won't really cost us more, but will sweeten the packages for the higher prices.

So that sums up what we are doing, so how how is everybody else finding the wedding business?

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hey Roger

I noticed too that there wasn't too many people saying much on here as well! As I reach my 73rd year I feel more that ever that I need to not over commit on weddings and keep some time for myself. I'm a water baby so if I cannot take my kayak out at least once a week I get withdrawal symptoms!!

My first course of action which I put into place in early 2018 was to stop doing these crazy weddings that finished at 1:00am so I ended up getting to bed at 2:00am!! The next day I was a zombie so our maximum time now is up to 9:00 - 9:30pm when they do the first dance and after that we are out of there!!

My second course of action also last year was to stop editing footage ...spending the weekend shooting meant spending the week days editing so I really had no time to myself so we went the live stream route and edited live via switching software ... the bride gets a live video, an online video and a copy the next day on a USB. You cannot imagine how good it feels to complete your shoot on the day and you are actually FINISHED ..no editing at all! we can even create the USB drive direct from the computer.

Lastly I take preference to brides who just want the ceremony so that eases up the shoot even more and gives me even more free time to go and play in the ocean!!

Has this affected our bookings ..not at all! WE are full for next month as we always are and booking extend right into 2020 as well ... We don't make as much money overall but our hourly rate is now way better so we are working smarter not harder or longer and down under our aged pension system pays you the difference between your generated income (weddings) and the normal pension rate so we get to do what we still love and still make a nice income!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Like Roger, 2018 was a big year. Not my largest for number of bookings, though close, but workload was phenomenal and likewise I didn't get a holiday. I rely on Google for my advertising and I dropped the ball in 2017 July to August, where I lost my Google ads due to some technicality, but didn't pick up on it till September. Thankfuly, 2018 benefited from both an early Easter and the Chinese believing the number 8 is lucky. So I got loads of Chinese Weddings last year and my Wedding season kicked off early due to the early Easter break. I did very well in profits, my highest ever.

2019 is so far proving a tougher sell. I concur with Roger that couples are holding out for 2020 and next year is looking set to be a great year for bookings. I've met a few Photographers who have felt the same about 2019 and 2020. I'm still getting a great deal of bookings, better than 2016, my toughest year so far to date, but it's not going to turn as healthy a profit as the last 2 years. January to May is about 15 bookings down, though Autumn is looking better than last year. I wonder if Brexit has also impacted on early year bookings. Maybe knocking couples confidence. I'm not sure if last year's Royal Wedding has helped much. Feels too early to see the affect of it to my Business.

Being in my mid 40s, I'm not so keen to settle down and am looking to expand if anything. So am going to launch a 2nd Business more targeted to Business and may even use it to test the waters with more high cost Wedding Video services. At the same time I am looking to lower my workload by dropping DVD production as an included extra for my packages. Frankly DVD is feeling old fashioned now. I use to get £600 of extra DVD copies a year and that was on top of offering a healthy number of copies included in my Wedding Packages, but each year requests for extra copies goes down. Some clients don't even have a DVD player. And frankly sending a USB is much easier than preparing a DVD.

I'm going to use the lighter start to the year to sort my Business out top to bottom and work out some things I am not happy with. Wedding Industry is good but I'm keen to branch out and not put my eggs in 1 basket.

It is quiet on there forums these days. Facebook pages has stolen I think much of this forums chat. Alas I don't have much regard for Facebook as a location for good information exchange.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hey Steve

I do agree that a lot of people are using Facebook but information exchange is still way better here ...Yes I use Facebook but only to advertise my services. It's not by choice but a simple fact that that's where 99% of the brides hang out ... what really annoys me is if you find something on Facebook and go and grab a cuppa it's gone forever because it's been replaced with a thousand new posts ..so not my favourite place!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Facebook is a pain but the brides are on there so I think we're stuck with it - I promote posts through facebook but haven't bothered too much with google after spending way too much for little result some years back.

I'd certainly be interested in hearing about methodology and success with google & other forms of advertising.

I'll end up doing around 30 this year, same as last year but 2020 is looking promising.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hey Paul

I found a good idea is to create your own generic wedding group. The issue with even a local group is that every Tom Dick and Harry is posting furiously so your post ends up out of sight very quickly and brides miss it. Some vendors will also watch posts and wait for others to do their post before adding their own so you are "pushed down"

Now, if you create your own group called say "Wedding Suppliers Central Coast" and invite all other vendors to join it it grows quite fast ...just make sure its a public group so all brides see it! The secret here is to then create your own ad but then mark it as an "announcement" and also "pin to the top" That way your ad is always at the start of the group and only you can do this cos it's your group. It gives you a lot of exposure and works well for me!!

Can't see the point of using Google any longer as most brides seem to have their smartphone permanently glued to their hand and are on Facebook 23 hours a day ... I don't really like it BUT if you want to take home dinner you need to go where the fish are feeding!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Over the last 35 years, I have tried just about every type of wedding promotion, from wedding magazines, to newspaper ads, Yellow Pages, specialist Facebook promotion companies, Google ads, wedding shows etc. Most have been a waste of time and money, with the two noticeable exceptions being Wedding shows and our business Facebook page. Our FB page started as a simple blog of weddings we had been filming, and new couples we had visited. We later added stills from the video and photos from our photo packages as 'Taster Pics', which Brides love. We don't use any FB promotions, relying on the couple's friends and family all wanting to see the taster pics and passing the link to others. It took a couple of years for it to really work well, but it is much more personal and direct than some other ways of using Facebook.

We also rely heavily on building a very good relationship with potential clients and never take a booking without first visiting and chatting with them in a very relaxed and informal way. This frequently starts with wedding shows where we need to stand out from all the other videographers and photographers. We never 'Sell' to people visiting our stand, never try to take appointments and never just hand out leaflets before we have chatted to them. We are also the same with visits, where we leave a booking form but insist on clients discussing between themselves first. That may all sound like a recipe for disaster, but we find that couples love the fact that they can relax and not feel under pressure. We hear endless tales of hard selling and constant follow up phone calls, and that puts off a lot of couples. A lot of suppliers think it is too much time, cost and effort to travel up to 100 miles to see a possible client and instead rely on email enquiries and exchanges. For us though, the extra effort is worth it in secured bookings.

We feel that selling yourself is as important as selling your product. The product is either what they want or it isn't, but if you are going to be with their family and friends on what is an intimate and very personal day for them, they want to feel very comfortable with you.

The final clincher for us has always been that we take no deposit at all and full payment is made after the wedding when we are ready to deliver. Most suppliers hold their hands up in horror at that idea, but we are protected by a water tight contract with strong cancellation clauses, and penalty clauses for any delay in payment. We don't have payment problems, with only 3 difficult ones over 35 years and we still got our money. We did have a recent cancellation with 4 days notice and received full payment by transfer the next day.

Our way of promoting and working is probably unsuitable for most businesses, but has been very successful for us. This year so far, every visit that we have made has resulted in a booking, so we will not be changing our modus operandi.

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Face to face doesn't work so good for me. I'm terrible at small talk and even good friends I've made have since admitted being unsure about me on 1st meeting. I'm quite shy meeting new people in person, so for that reason fayres and bookings where I do meet clients first are more miss than hit. So email is where i feel my strengths lie. I'm always good at responding quickly to emails and that does help when some services can take days to respond.

I'd be interested Roger in how you've laid down your water tight cancellation policies. Mine could use some work. I charge only a small deposit and get payment a week before the Wedding. Some pay in instalments leading up to it and I don't discourage that. I've had bad experiences with people who I did allow to pay after. Still my contract could use some work there.

I don't use Facebook as much as I should. Though I wonder if Instagram has taken some of its thunder too. Social media is a side to my business I don't explore as well as I should. Google Ads made a good difference to my Business. Back in 2016, I only had 35 bookings by the end of February that year, below my usual amount. However I started Google Ads that month and by the end of the year, I had 77 bookings. My usual amount to that point. Since then I got about 95 in 2017 and 2018, so up from my usual 75 to 78 annual bookings. A fact I attribute to Google Ads. It's clear when I'm not using it that enquiries go down by about 50%. A fact I should have picked up on in 2017 when it did, but being a busy summer, I didn't notice this till the September.

I suppose it all depends on your business and how you work. I've spend ages refining my Google Ad to make it work for me. Every few months I chat with someone to work through updates and make changes based on how it performs. May not work for some, but seems to be for me.

Still Chris, your Facebook group idea seems a neat idea and one I shall have to look into. Mind you, I want to put my focus on commercial work to. Wedding advertising is something you can put too much time and cost to, as there are only so many popular dates for couples to get married on. I could double my time and cost on marketing and only benefit in enquiries I am already booked for.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Steve,

You are right about the face to face, it only works well if it suits your own personality and style. If it doesn't come naturally then it is always going to make you feel uncomfortable. Both Claire and myself seem to be able to make people feel at ease, but why that is I really don't know. I have been a musician and entertainer since 15 years old, so I suppose I am very comfortable being in front of people and talking to them easily. One of my sons seems to have inherited the gene as he is the international distributor liaison officer for Red Cameras, and spends his life taking distributors out and setting up massive new deals.

As regards contracts, we have very clearly stated cancellation clauses which cover cancellations from 3 months to 6 weeks before the booked date, with a sliding percentage depending on how close to the date the cancellation is. If we can replace a cancelled date, we would waive the cancellation fee. We also have penalty payments which start 7 days after the due payment date. They are based on a percentage of the amount due and accrue on a weekly basis, so the longer they are outstanding, the higher the amount due becomes. It's a very efficient deterrent to keeping us waiting. It also means that in cases of genuine hardship, we can choose to waive the penalties when the contracted amount is paid. However it would be difficult to add a non payment clause to an invoice for work delivered, which is why we put it into the booking contract.The contracts used to state 'Payment on delivery', but we changed that to 'Payment on completion' after a few clients some years ago were delaying delivery. We do not hand over any finished work under any circumstances until full payment has been made, which is also clearly stated in our contracts. I have only ever needed to draw attention to the late payment penalty clause on three occasions and all resulted in full payment, so the clause seems to work.

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hey Roger

To be honest I threw my hands up in horror when I saw you take no deposit. We even had issues when we used to take 1/3rd to book and a second 1/3rd 2 weeks before the wedding and the final 1/3rd on delivery. I STILL have a couple of DVD's sitting in a cupboard from 5 years ago where they simply never paid the final 1/3rd ..It was a small wedding too so why someone would pay $800 up front and never pay the final $400 is beyond me. I even offered to let them pay the final amount in small installments ...We also had a couple of brides who offered to pay cash when I delivered and then, of course, never had the money when I arrived at the house) Sorry but now they pay 1/3rd to secure the date and pay the balance 2 weeks before the wedding ...I must admit it's nice to deliver a wedding once it's done and get a big bundle of money but I got tired of being ripped off!!

Nowdays on Facebook yes we only use a FB Business page too ..gave up on ads but one thing I did find was if I included stills (around 10 images) in my posts the engagements tripled and we got a lot more bookings so when I do a wedding now I take a second still camera so I can grab a few shots to use in my Facebook post! I guess brides like posts with images far more than those without or just with a generic image??

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Chris,

I think that your policy of deposit to secure date then balance before the wedding is common through most of the wedding industry, but I have to admit to being surprised that you were tired of being ripped off as it hasn't happened to me. I am not buying in materials for a wedding or making a dress that is unique for the bride, so I prefer to be paid for the service I have rendered, with clients being well aware of their legal obligation to us and vice versa. In the event of me needing to take legal action for breach of contract, the client would have received nothing at that point and be liable for the full amount plus accrued interest and legal costs, so I really have no concerns. I do like the big bundle of money on completion though :-)

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Roger

It probably was only half a dozen clients over a couple of years but it still annoys me that I have worked my butt off at their wedding (some of those were 14 hour days) and they never pay me ..then again they did pay 2/3rds of the total amount so it surprises me that they are happy to get absolutely nothing for their outlay! Maybe your clients have a lot more integrity??

Actually my photographer mate Richard only charges $100 deposit and he also gives them their money back if they cancel BUT he still insists on upfront payment before the wedding!

It's not really an issue nowdays for me as I just ask for the whole amount upfront unless it's a 2020 wedding as I mainly am doing ceremonies only now and broadcasting to overseas family ...Here that's less than an hour onsite which is a lot nicer than having to start at 10am and finish at 1am the next morning! Too old for that besides I'm enjoying my other "semi-retirement" activities!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Chris,

We all work different ways and how you work really doesn't matter providing it works well for you :-)

Enjoy your 'Semi Retirement' activities, I should be doing the same this year hopefully as I am the same age as you!

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

It's hard Roger!! This week I said "I'm going paddling a couple of days this week at least ..I have been shooting Realty yesterday and today (it's already 4:00pm here) and now another huge job for tomorrow.

Hopefully no-one will want me either Thurs or Fri ..fingers crossed!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I closed my business 4yrs ago back in Greece, but I'm allocated in Netherlands atm since November. If anyone needs someone on the editing team maybe pm me to email my resume, sry for taking it a little off topic.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hey Roger

The fingers crossed seem to have worked ..I have Friday and Saturday free and my favourite ocean playground has almost zero wind and flat water on Saturday morning ... I get a chance to enjoy my retirement activity again but we have weddings every weekend after that for the whole of March and April

Getting quite a few bookings for 2020 already like you guys have already mentioned

Chris

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Chris,

Got two weddings this weekend and a few edits still to catch up on, but looks like I may have a few days coming up shortly to get some work done on our boat at last. May even get it back in the water by the end of Spring :-)

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I'm having a tough time with them. Admittedly most of my time here I was a weekend warrior, holding onto my office/M-F job. In 2017 I was working somewhat of a customer service/phone job for a web host like a small version of GoDaddy. It swaying into billing & complaints & ultimately I left as it was mid-summer, a busy time for me, and the money was best for a time to go.

Last year, I obtained pretty good work doing web streaming, and I like it. It's part time/contract work, not quite livable but its passable for a few years. Hoping that will lead to FT work over time, although more likely it could lead to a positive step career wise. That's likely the direction I'll head in.

With that said, last Memorial Day (May) I had a pretty rough day of it. A busy weekend, my timing belt broke on the way to a Saturday wedding. Car broke down on the side of the highway, uggh. Fortunately it wasn't too far, the wedding was only 30 minutes from me and I was about halfway there. I called an Uber & got there just in time. However being a popular 3 day weekend I also had one on Sunday too. Had to uber back to my parents house, then take their car up about an hour away. Then work monday, it was a confusing weekend. It just made me think I really don't charge for the ancillary costs such as travel, advertising etc. Also I don't want them to impact my workweek with this job so few Sunday or Friday weddings.

I shut down all advertising & stopped promoting altogether, then I got hit with the vimeo/DMCA takedown (which I won, I'll post about that later) but it just was too much of a whirlwind 6 months & left a bad taste in my mouth. I had a sister of a past bride reach out, and I'm shooting hers but wish I really had NONE lined up for a period of time, I needed to step away from them.

I might rethink my business model & packages, hire a 2nd shooter, pay alot for Google adwords etc. A full rebrand, but I'm not sure. FWIW I worked with a photog a second time & we got to know each other & talk a bit more. He's my age, 45ish, and worked odd retail jobs into his 30s,and knew he had to get out of it. I think he got married & realized the prices they charge, and got into it. He was pretty desperate, but I'll give him credit he had the courage & paid WeddingWire or The Knot $1000/month to be on front page. He'd only get a few a year but even 10 or 12 would get him $40k albeit $12k on ads. Anyway, he said its been about 5-7 years but said its now paying off due to referrals are outnumbering paid leads anymore and they mostly instantly book. It's food for thought for me, again I'm not sure I have the desire anymore to do them, I posted previously about back/body issues, and losing weekends I fear I've given up much of my life. We'll see, but I had a downer year & mini-breakdown of 'em.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi David

It's a tough industry and I dunno about the USA, but here it's totally unregulated which means any Tom Dick or Harry (or Mary) can walk into a discount store, buy a camera and voila, they are now a qualified wedding videographer. The fact that cameras themselves do a fantastic job even with an idiot holding them makes the industry very competitive nowdays and a bit of a price war too ! Not really a nice situation.

I have noticed that a lot of the more expensive wedding videographers have simply shut up shop because they are tired of competing with the low ballers and brides don't seem to care that much about quality and creativity! That is why we moved to supplying a live broadcast for friends and family who cannot make it to the wedding whether they are down the road or on the other side of the world. Because we edit live and often only shoot with one camera there is no post work and it's really cost effective! I got tired if shooting weddings all weekend and then spending the entire week editing them! With ceremonies we are in and out in an hour and can often do two on a Saturday. Works well for us!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I've noticed that drastically with photographers. So many are just young couples who got married, spend $3K on wedding photos, and thought 'Why don't we do that'. Funny, I worked with one couple who was elated over their new venture, and it was gonna be their lifelong career together. I think they had a newborn & I commented from what I heard from other, older photogs "Yeah, it'll be great, until your kid gets older & plays sports & has birthday parties to goto". I didn't mean it as an insult, it was more a 'Yeah then the party ends' type comment. I could tell me their reaction the concept of it never crossed their minds.

I also joined a FB wedding group for my area, it really took the life outta me. Just people complaining about rates, then likely the same people bidding on lowball weddings for photogs friends or for people who get double booked but don't want to say 'No' so they outsource it to another rando. Weird novice complaints about B&G's or venues. I mostly lay low & don't like to comment on things.

I do think video is a bit safer as the amount of editing required, and skill set & software required is pretty intense, but yeah I hear about teams going rogue & shooting weddings. Whereas photography can be spray & pray, shoot 3000 images, deliver 600.

Anyway I hate to complain & can admit I had trouble getting the business side going. Never had the conviction to go all in & invest into marketing, which probably led to my demise. Anyway, we'll see. And FTR there weren't any complaints or nasty couples that contributed. I had one last year I 'thought' might try to nitpick, but never heard back from her either way, and another later last summer at a wedding saw a bride as a guest who loved her video from 2 years ago, gave me a really good compliment.

Thanks though Chris, I love your concept about livestreaming weddings & think you mentioned before there's a demand for it there due to alot of international residents (UK?). It could catch on here over time, but for the most part most family friends can attend weddings here, so the markup would be a minimal addon for Grandma in Florida to watch.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi David

Most photogs here don't even advertise themselves as such they now say "photography and video" ... I guess it's easier than getting a job that pays $25 a hour when you can be a mediocre wedding supplier for $100 an hour. Even photos need to be edited .at the very least a crop and contrast correction but our local government post school establishments offer a myriad of photo courses and it's mainly women that do them.

Yes the livestream is a niche market so it does have that attraction to couples with family that cannot attend but the other attraction is the "instant video online" feature. At the end of each event (say the ceremony) we post instantly to the event page so people can actually watch it minutes after it is completed. My biggest complaint was having to shoot a wedding then spend days putting it together but here when the wedding is over we are done! (we do send them a USB backup a few days later) but no real editing is done as it's done live ..huge time saver for me and the attraction of no waiting for your wedding video for the bride.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

After this coming May, I'm done with it! going to sell off all my equipment (if I can)

Things have dried up the last while, I think the advent of smartphones and live streaming on FB has had a big impact at least in my area.

There are some part timers around making really lowball offers, that, quite frankly I wouldn't get out of bed for. The other fact (here anyway) is that 95% of weddings are on a Friday or Saturday because most of these events have turned into two or in some cases three day events, so theres not much call for mid week weddings because it presents too much problems/expense getting time off work for guests etc. So it has slowly turned into almost exclusively a weekend job for the most part.

I believe of a lot of people are happy enough with a few clips on their phone etc. and even the traditional (expensive wedding) album for stills is dying away too.

I've asked around from in my area, are they content with just watching clips on their phone /tablet v on a big screen TV and most seem to prefer it on the phone etc. and really aren't too bothered with the big feature or a highlights video, the older would prefer that but it's the young couples that are getting married and mostly prefer the clips/photos on Snapchat or Facebook or phone. It's still a big family event here in Ireland and people will travel back from as far as you can imagine to attend, so I don't see too many offering live straming as it's not in demand.

i can say I enjoyed it and it was good while it lasted, but everything has a shelf life, I certainly wouldn't like to be trying to start out today.


cheers

R

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

That's really a shame Rob but I can see your point! In fact much the same is on the rise here ...couples are taking cheaper venues and the traditional video I used to do with 14 hours coverage is a thing of the past. Yes eventually phone footage will be accepted by most brides (they already can shoot in 4K!) but seriously brides couldn't care less ...I very much doubt whether anyone watches their wedding on a big screen TV any more ...it's mostly shared between phones and tablets and of course footage that would look terrible on a 55"TV looks stunning on a phone!!

There is a small market for live video here and I bet there also is in Ireland ... it's not just the live content that is watched ..I will often be streaming a ceremony and the server shows 15 or less people online BUT an hour later you look at 350 people have watched it!! Not bad for private videos ..I find that the "instant video after the event" is a marketable product and I have seen many brides waiting for the photographer and staring at their phone saying "this is so cool" and on enquiry they are watching their own ceremony! Everything is on phone ..some marketing guru said to me ..if your product is NOT available on phone soon you can forget about selling it ... I have kept things REALLY simple ..one single camera on a dolly ...Broadcaster Pro encoder going to a private event page and only a 720P video too!! It looks stunning on a phone ..you have no editing and on civil ceremonies you are done and dusted in under an hour!!

Isn't that something to think about before you get rid of all your gear??

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Sorry to hear that you are giving up Rob. I'm glad that I gave up five years ago as I think it's even tougher now that everyone has a halfway decent video camera in their pocket. Couples are very rarely prepared to pay a fair price for the work involved in a properly filmed & edited video of their wedding. Chris's live streaming & live editing seems a great way to go & is going to be a different product but maybe that's' what couples really want.

Making money out of wedding services particularly video & photography is always going to be problematical when most weddings are on a Saturday in the summer. It's a bit like being business in a seaside resort you have to make money while the sun shines & shut up shop in the winter. Diversifying into anything other than weddings is ideal as it gives you work during the week & in winter. I know Chris does/did real estate video surveys.

You can always become a YouTube blogger telling other people how to shoot wedding videos.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I'd rather have a job cleaning the latrines... Vloggers is one of my pet hates. :)

On the subject of Wedding Videography, no doubt the Business can be tough, but there are still plenty of companies out there and a few I know, some struggle, some don't and it isn't always about price. Some charge low and still struggle, others charge a lot and do well. I think you need to know your target clients and nail the marketing. It's a changing industry and keeping on top of the trends helps and not pigeon holing yourself into 1 thing. My service includes Marryokes, Parties and Corporate Work and whilst Weddings are the most lucrative, I get a few parties and about a dozen or more Corporate work a year to keep me busy.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

I do agree with Steve here. You have to diversify like crazy and not have all your eggs in one basket. Even if I would have been happy continuing with traditional shoot and edit video I think you have to work smarter not harder to outwit the "bottom feeders" who are making your life hard by offering prices that make doing your job hard. Things like Marryoke are in the smart basket because the guy in the street doesn't know how to do them. The market here is really tough !! A bride was looking for a videographer yesterday for May (so only two months away) and I was staggered how many of the companies that should be booked up solid for this year, offered their services so pickings must be lean!!

I have always said look for niche markets that the weekend warriors never think about and you can keep busy and not have to compete with the rabble that are all bust cutting each other's prices!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

If I was to sum up this year, its that my Business is in rude health. Takings were great last year, so I have plenty of money in the bank, bookings for next year are so far considerably up from the equivalents in all the years I have been doing Business, suggesting a bumper year in 2020 and even this year, yes its not great, but still better than 2016, my toughest year. And still nowhere near as bad as bad could be to be worried. If not beating the highs of the last 2 years is my biggest problem, it's not a bad problem to have as the last 2 years were exceptional.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Yeah I think Marketing of it is huge. Definitely to grow one needs to spend on advertising, unless you're at the point referrals are coming in steadily.

I will say, for my area at least, weddings definitely aren't just a 'summer thing'. In fact, Fall/Autumn is just about as busy as May/June/July, (from Mid July thru August its so sweaty hot here they almost die down). Spring is sorta popular but March/April can be cold & possibly snow. Always love that, couples complaining it's cold on their wedding day ("It's March 10th/November 25th??")

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Going back to the sad news about Rob quitting everything after May, something I did notice with myself is that I was getting far too complicated. I was buying stedicams and gimbals to get that perfect shot and then drones started to make an appearance so with cranes and multiple cameras I found I was just making more work for myself and was trying to impress everyone out there with all my fancy gear and I'm pretty sure that the bride couldn't have cared less what I shot her wedding with as long as she got a video.

The odd wedding ceremony we do now consists of a shoulder mount camera on a tripod and dolly and not much else and brides are still happy with the results. It's a lot easier to take just one camera to a gig instead of setting up 4 or 5 and doing multi-camera editing which takes a lot longer too.

Rob mentions that phones will take over from pro cameras one day? I wonder if someone will bring out a "prosumer phone" for weddings. I might have already mentioned it but I did read that a well known marketing guru said that if your business cannot supply your product to be available on clients mobile/cell phone by 2020 people won't want to do business with you and if you see people with their eyes glued to the screen day and night I can see his point!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Yes and no. Brides know nothing of gear, well most anyway. However aside from the fact that amongst guests can be someone who does and may relay that to the couple, the finished video will show the results of that gear. I had one guy shoot for me who used an A7s mounted on a shoulder rig - alas the quality of the shots were shakey and the footage I did use had to be pulled as the Bride although initially happy later when showing the video to friends had comments that it looked like mobile phone footage. So even if you trick the Bride into something of lower quality, she has friends and family and some of them may not be so clueless as the Bride.

Adding such extra gear as you put it is what sets us apart from some Uncle with a camcorder or a phone. Take my Drone, its been very lucrative for me. I charge more for it as an extra than I do a Marryoke and its a lot less work, but not only do drone shots help sell my videos and my service too, but its now my best extra. People will pay a lot if they see value and its one way to sell the idea of Wedding Videography. I admit my jib doesn't get used. I have a gimbal setup permanently and also a Pocket Osmo which is wonderful for on the fly shots with hardly no setup time. I used it recently on a raining day to film the Bride's arrival. So there are ways to add gear and not make your life too hard.

I don't see phones taking over from Pro Cameras. Besides couples aren't paying for gear, they are paying for you to film the day. If they are not willing to pay for a Professional, then Uncle Bob with a camcorder can do the job. Again, its about making your work stand out from him.

As part of my service, I run a Guestcam, where I lend a camera out to guests. The quality of the footage even with a stabilised camera shows I have nothing to worry about from guests with phones taking my job. :) Same in any industry. Give me access to Professional DIY tools and I am not suddenly going to be a master carpenter competing with a Professional.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi guys,
Yeah I haven't made this decision lightly, really it's been some time coming to the realisation that in my area, I've noticed demand is diminishing.

There's around four video companies operating where I am, I really don't know how they're fairing, they'd hardly tell me if business is not as good as it could be. But i think it's a case of diminishing returns, I live in a reasonably small population area compared to the bigger cities etc.

As for prices, one of my competitors offers €750 for his 'Bronze' Package going up to €1500 for the 'Superior' one, i just had the one price for all day, i don't know if I should have started low and have a whole bunch of add-ons? perhaps my marketing wasn't up to the mark, I really don't know! I never went on Facebook, I think it can be toxic, one poor review could ruin a business.

I searched for streaming video in my area and apart from two funeral directors! as far as I can tell nobody is doing it, I've never heard of anyone asking for it either, so I'm thinking there isn't a market for it at this point in time.

I started out 24 years ago at first doing stills - freelance for news to fashion to commercial work then took on video, mostly weddings but also editing jobs, some web content and the odd commercial job, however it's time, for me at least, to move on, I'll keep a camera or two, but will sell off all my studio equipment and extra cams and accessories.

:-)

Rob

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

That's what I have done Rob .. Just kept enough to shoot a promo video or do a wedding ceremony !

No market for wedding video streamed live?? If there is nobody doing it then you cannot say there is no demand .. I thought so too and was surprised !! The instant video also attracts brides as they can send the link to all the other brides via phone.

You lack of business is probably because you are NOT on Facebook ...brides virtually LIVE there because they can talk to other brides and it's so simple to make a business page that doesn't have reviews!!

I'm cutting back hugely too so I have just one video camera, a tripod, a dolly and two wireless mic sets and that's it!!! I can do ceremonies live or otherwise funerals and even a bit of commercial stuff with it.

Good luck but please keep in touch and let us know what you are up to??

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Rob, demand is diminishing for you partly and maybe largely because you've not kept up to date to compete with webdesign trends and current requirements. Your site is not even "mobile-friendly" (the most common browser device type by far), and its not secure (needs to be https NOT http otherwise visitors will receive warnings). There is very little content and what there is or was (I think I nosed around it a year or more ago) is of now questionable technical quality compared to competitors.

You could buy a template site for peanuts which will already be mobile friendly and secure (if your host offers https which most now do for free). Low monthly charges. Search engine optimisation can be included with many hosts. Make sure its a Wordpress type and consider using Yoast for SEO. You should re-edit what 1080 files you already have and upload a bunch of attractive samples.

If you already have other means of finding decent new business without a decent website then fine. But that tends to be from recommendations from venues plus expensive wedding fairs and hard copy advertising. Otherwise you absolutely must sort out your website.

Roger has similarities up to a point - website way out of date with current "tastes" plus not mobile-friendly and not secure. But he offers unique advantages to new enquiry customers that in all probability would not work elsewhere n.b. he is in a relatively remote part of the country with slow roads. He is unlikely to receive lots of bookings based soley on his current site and he is unlikely to have lots of prospective clients drive to his location (all relative of course). In other areas such as the Thames Valley a completely different set of factors come into play e.g. many clients don't want a visit as they fear its a hard sell and would rather they make their own minds up online from the very large number of nearby competitors.

There's still a lot of negative comment here regarding "low-ball" competitors and that may be valid for standalone video. But in photography the full-time survivors now accept that there are very many cheap part-timers who can easily compete on price and certainly look the part using a sexy template site, a misleading or outright dishonest "about" page, and a bunch of portfolio shots. You are not going to compete with them if you charge a lot more and your own portfolio looks no different as far as the brides are concerned. You can see that both Roger and Steve here, both of whom are pretty active in business, are offering low rates.

Roger, Chris, could you clarify what you are suggesting as regards new business for Facebook? I think I get that you both have Business Pages on Facebook but I'm unclear as to whether you are largely using Facebook display ads or are you relying on Facebook members chatting with each other etc.

Pete

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Pete

I have a Facebook business page but put manual posts in all the local wedding groups on a bi-weekly basis. Yes my website is mobile friendly and I do agree that most brides will need one as their entire life revolves around their phone. Dunno about the UK but here 99% of brides expect their suppliers to be on Facebook in some way or other ... I dislike it but you have to drop your bait where the fish are biting. I would much rather depend on my website but it doesn't work that way!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Pete,

Our website hasn't been changed for a long time, but as our hosting is changing in August, we will be completely revamping it. Our work from Facebook comes from keeping a blog of our client's weddings and updates that seem to keep brides interested. We also have a lot of really good reviews which I think is key to getting new brides interested. As Chris said, brides live on Facebook and recommendations are absolutely priceless.

Wedding shows have always been a big success for us and we exhibit at 10 shows per year. I don't consider £2000 for 10 shows over 12 months as expensive, as last year we took about £40,000 of bookings from wedding shows, and I consider that about 10% of turnover needs to be put into promotion.

Roger

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

An interesting fact is that if I do a pretty much standard post with an image to attract brides it is dealt with as just another videographer peddling his wares BUT if I do a blog like Roger does on the lines of "We did a awesome wedding yesterday" ...and give details AND add half a dozen stills taken at the wedding brides love it and I get a massive interactive and enquiries too. This is the reason why I always take a still camera with me even if I'm only doing video and take at least a couple of bridal entry shots, some during the ceremony and they seem to love signing the documents shots ..I also make sure I add a photo of the couple with the celebrant and send it to her (or him) as they often get better traffic than me!!

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Sadly it looks like the few of those people who actually replied to Roger's post here have had their say and I really wonder if the same amount of videographers are still out there and working or have they quit doing weddings for some reason. I posted here (just after Roger) 4 days ago and in previous years the post would have had a huge number of responses ..I wonder if it's the industry or the fact that people are using social media more and more ?? Has anyone used DVInfo on their mobile device and is it mobile friendly?? Maybe everyone is still out there and as busy as normal BUT do everything via phone now???

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Hi Chris,
I don't know if it is just me, but I don't seem to have any free time anymore. It isn't like it used to be and I'm wonder if others are in a similar mode.

There was a time, before computers, where one would subscribe to a few magazines and have time to read them. Or, perhaps work on a hobby. Back when I always had older used cars and had to do repairs: break jobs, overhaul the carb, tuneups, radiator or water pump replacements, heck, even engine and transmission changes, mufflers, etc. Always had house repairs, frequent visits to the parents, and the list goes one. Even time to watch TV programs. All this and still had some discretionary free time.
Lately, though, times for me at least, have changed.

Spent the past several weeks on the computer writing specs for major remodeling job on a commercial building (actually been working on this for the past year), just got the first bid in and just finished a week of construction estimating ... all this and really should b doing other things.

Got two new cams last year and have hardly used them, part of the reason was all the smoke from forest fires last summer and the top priority was to get some great sailing videos ... got a couple short ones to test out the gear then the smoke was so bad I had to stay indoors with super-fine air filters on the HVAC. There's practically no free time anymore!

Just the laptop.

"Being busy is the new normal" (see first paragraph). Only had one short weekend cruise last year but this year I've promised myself it will be different. Or else! (or else what, I don't know).

Ed:
Disclaimer: I don't do weddings but, if you can't tell, I'm very frustrated with the lack of discretionary free time. Sympathy is welcome.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

It's not just this weddings forum but sadly I think that the traffic on DVInfo is a fraction of what it was 10 years ago. Unfortunately I think it's happening to all traditional online forums which are going the way of Usenet newsgroups & VAXnotes. I don't do Faceache or Twitter as I find them such a horrible anarchic mess. I much prefer the structure of traditional forums but I'm obviously in a minority.

Re: Wedding Guys, What's Happening?
 

Thanks Guys

I prefer a forum like this as well! At least you can find a post easily. On social media you see something of interest and turn around to say to your partner "take a look at this" and it's gone, buried in a million more posts. However judging by people walking in the street or in shopping centres they all have mobile devices super-glued to their hand so they wouldn't have time to go to an awesome place like this when you are continuously and furiously typing into their phone about what they are doing, where they are going and other useless trivia like that.

I have got to a semi-retired state now in life so I actually have a tiny bit of extra time to myself as I have trimmed my weddings down to live broadcasts and mainly only ceremonies so my entire week is not filled up with hours and hours of editing and it's great!!