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So who's the best?
Ok, this question is being posted not to slander or brag but rather to learn from the best & meet new videographers.. SO I am posting who I think are the very best in the market in wedding films, who are on the cutting edge & successful in their marketplace.
Please post website, and any other (confirmed) information that you may know. P.S. if you post yourself please leave links to demo work. Look forward to seeing your posts ___ Heres my list (in no particular order) - Iris Cinema - they do amazing work, I love their stuff; use the DVX & charge 5-11K. Check out the love story video at the bottom of their page. My jaw hit the floor when I watched it! http://www.iriscinema.com/film_clips.php David Perry Films - David Perry has it made, he is a personal friend of mine and I was fortunate to spend a week with him in Utah. He uses the Canon Gl2 & Glidecam 2000. Absolutely fantastic videographer; very creative. Prices range from +$1-3K www.davidperryfilms.com Our wedding video - this guy is a bit more well known around the weva circuit. Does very good stuff, very creative & unique. Uses the Sony Z1U HDV camera and promotes HD from start to end. Although prices don't reflect his work & I think are a bit low, especially for HD; However that may be all he can demand in Texas? www.ourweddingvideo.com Lastly, I'll post myself. In our opinion we are very creative and on the cutting edge of wedding films. We have a unique style but have also learned from others and implemented it into our look. We use the Canon Xl2 & Varizoom Aviator Steadicam rig. We range from $1700-3700K. I'll be updating our website this month & I'll post some newer stuff soon and send a link. www.visualmasterpiece.com |
I'm going to throw stones at other people's houses even though mine may be made of glass. :) Oh, and I'll keep my mouth shut about copyrights.
For ALL of the samples, I thought there was too little substance and over-stylization. I won't say this is necessarily bad since these are quick samples. iriscinema.com Knowing their prices, I wasn't blown away. Regardless, they ARE good. I did detect audio clipping during the vows in one of their samples. I like a lot of their stuff, but bad audio is a no-no. David Perry Great shooter. Nuff said. Still, I was dying to see people talking. Ourwedingvideo.com Great imagery, but that is all there is. I don't know anything about the people except for the way they look in their wedding best. They LOOK good, but they are only images. Visualmasterpiece.com I hate to say it, but you are the best shooter of the bunch. Why? Because the images are beautiful AND I felt like I was getting to know the people through the images. I think iriscinema.com is a close second with this, but they get marks taken off for audio technicalities. I think moving images should start to register people's personalities. Perhaps I favor a photo-journalism style, but I think it is justified. Simple images of people aren't enough if you are documenting someone's wedding. The images should tell something about the people, not just their fashion designers. |
WOW, thanks! Thats an amazing compliment... but I have to ask... whats the "hate to say it" all about :) J/K.
Thank you though, thats very encouraging... we give out 150% and we do everything journalistic style, nothing ever set.. well, rarely setup anyway. We have no shot-list(s). (if this is true, we need marketing help.. we could use more original business right now) Its alot of fun to learn and acknowlage everyone, thanks. |
I hate to say it because I don't want you to get a big head and allow yourself to get lazy! :) If you don't mind, I'll make a criticism to prevent this and to give you something to work on. I thought your demo video was paced well, but there is a section near the end where you use quick fade-to-white transitions on the beat of the music. I like syncing to the beat, but any transition overused can start to look bad. I think cut, crossfade, fade-to-black, and fade-to-white are probably the only viable transitions, and well-edited cuts are the best. This is my personal opinion, so brides may not care at all.
Regardless of my opinion or bride's opinions, your transitions are well-edited temporally and that is most important. I just felt the flashing might be a bit distracting. As you know, I was about to go crazy trying to watch videos from another company that were crawling along without really giving me anything but slomo images. The other end of this is the frantic jump cuts. Both are okay, in moderation. If you, and all of the others, work on maintaining beautiful images and focus on making those images tell a story, I think all would be fantastic. For you, personally, I would say that you could add more of David Perry's imagery (particularly his use of color) into your shots while still telling the story of the people. You would be top-notch (not that you aren't) and really worth the thousands. If Perry focused more on translating people's personality into the video, he would be improved. He focuses on architecture a bit much. He is good at it, but the architecture doesn't tell the story. He is really good at the raw image - clearly better than me! :) |
just my personal opinion
1. Iris Cinema (awesome film look, great color job)-- I really loved the love story video. Very stylish and artsy.
2. Our Wedding Video (HDV rules~ :) Didn't like the video look but not a problem) 3. David Perry Films (solid work but less appealing than the other two, IMO) I believe the guy from Iris Cinema can do much better job if he decides to make a feature movie for himself instead of a wedding video for somebody else. ;) |
Marcus, thanks again, and I agreed with everything said; I would definetly consider it constructive critisism.
Thanks. (does anyone have any other videographers they would like to add to the list? or are we happy with what we have..?) Young, thanks for your input; Iris Cinema has a real IndieFilm look, I dig it; but your right, for most brides its probably not what they'd want... unless they were film students ;) |
The Dirty Dozen
This is just my opinion of what I've seen.
In no particular order off the top of my head: joel @ weddingfilms loi @ bluecoremedia jan & jennifer @ horizonweddings jason @ jasonmagbanua glen @ gmelliottvideography terry & joe @ customvideobyterry mark & trish @ tulsaweddingvideos dave @ dvideography daniel @ dvartistry david @ dmbvideo stacy @ stacymarks david @ boulevardvideo Too many to list and I'm sure I forgot at at least a few dozen others. URLS's not listed out of respect for bandwidth limitations. Coincidentally, EventDV magazine has a Top 25 list of videographers which will be announced in Orlando on January 9th and printed in the January issue. |
i dont wanna piss in anyones pocket, but to go out and say who is "the best" is a litle out of line IMO, what you may think is good or bad, may not be what the client thinks is worth paying for... also what we may be valuing as good or bad value, may not be seen that way for a client who is shopping around comparing prices and packages and relaly only looking for the "needs" within THEIR video as opposed to their wants..
Dont get me wrong, the companies mention all do great work, from soem of the demos ive seen, their not too shabby.. nothings perfect, but there's always constructive criticism with anything, but to be honest with u, its nothing that hasnt already been seen or done before. On top of that considering the rates that some of these companies are charging, theres really nothing all that extraordinary that has really blown me away within this comparison thread. Theres a couple of regulars on this board who really do shine through and they havent been mentioned yet, but i have seen better work than whats ben mentioned And to be honest again, i dont like these comparison threads, as producers deserve merits within their own right, as each producer is different, they have their own style and deserve that recognition as opposed to being lined up and pointed out from the crowd.... whats the point of my post then u say... well, why bother?? why bother comparing producers work when all youre really seeing is the best bits OF the best bits for an online demo, which really doesnt represent the whole piece within itself?? Dont get me wrong, like i said, the work mentioned here is good, but if u pardon the pun, in these cases, there really is a bigger (motion) picture to consider... just my 2c Others might see it differently to the way i see it, and i respect that, so u can flame me all u like.. im just saying it how i see it |
Wow.. I really think you have misunderstood the reasoning for this post. I personally want to learn & grow my talent by seeing what other people are doing in the marketplace, I think it is one of the best ways for developing better skill.
That being said, you've said some fairly harsh things with nothing material to back yourself up; "i've seen better work than what's been mentioned", well ok.. that's fine, I'd like to see it. For that matter let's see what you got? Post your URL! |
What Peter said... We have better uses for this forum than "Here are some great people and aren't I great too?"
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I dont think YOU understand my point... im not here to bitch and moan, and im not here to get ideas for my own business growth within the marketplace.. Sure seeing peoples techniques gives u ideas, but it depends on what u do with those ideas as to whether its seen as learning, or whether its seen as plagiurism... What you do with what you see from others work is your business.. what im trying to say is that there are different needs and requirements for each client so what may work for one, may not work for another and cmparing one producers work against another simply doesnt make sense as their targetr clientelle may be totally different... As for learning, in this game, youre ALWAYS learning, so making a point of it is another thing thats entirely up to you. Each to their own It seems that you have also have misquoted me. I'll repeat what i said... "considering the rates that some of these companies are charging, theres really nothing all that extraordinary that has really blown me away within this comparison thread." Keyword here is "THIS" within this comparison thread Keypoint is the Rates which some of these companies were asking considering were looking at the US dollar here.. Your selective quoting also failed to include the key aspect of what i had written, being... "Theres a couple of regulars on this board who really do shine through and they havent been mentioned yet, but i have seen better work than whats ben mentioned" This means that there are quite afew others out there who do really great work (Some even better than what has been mentioned so far) Ive seen some trully astonishing work from afew of the guys here, and they deserve all the kudos they get. However as im not one to get into politics, im not about to starts dropping names in the hope that i make some new friends simply coz i like their work. To me its a respect thing. I respect and feel that ive known the producers here long enough NOT to have to fling their names around. Im not being negative in any way whatsoever so dont assume that i am. As for "nothing material" i deliberatly didnt want to get into "that" aspect as what i may find critical, others may find asthetically pleasing or vice versa. and like i said im not the type to get into the politics of what who is the best... to me that means shit considering that at the end of the day, if a company is out there in public selling their warez, their marketing budget will have a major influence on what dictates their sales figures, as opposed to the little guy who would rather invest in his studio instead of trying to get his name up in lights.. but does "better" work.... I dont post my stuff on the net for a number of reasons. The main thing being that for me, its a merketting decision which allows me to control who views what work, and in which environment they view it in. Im one of the very few businesses here in Aus (a handful actually) who is licensed with Dolby Labs, and to further that, im the only producer among the 1500 odd out there that actually offers this within a Wedding Presentation. but for me, i respect the privacy of my clients considering how volatile they are. Most of my clients are the type of people who are high profile business operators who would rather NOT have video simply coz theyre over it.. this is my main market. Its a difficult nut to crack and its teh "invisibility" of us which is the main selling point for thses clients. I also specialise in high end European weddings like Serbian, Greek and Maco. Thres alot of money in these jobs, but theres alos alot of work after teh day. Usually baout 2 to 3 times what one would normally spend on an edit.. I have associates who target the Japanese tourists getting married within australia, i also have another associate who targets Jewish weddings. So there are offsets of teh business which cater for different markets. And finally, i work as a supplier, tech support and trainier for about 70% of the wedding producers here in Sydney (as some members here can verify as ive sold them their equipment... ), and since i had one guy come up to me whip out my own demo asking me "how is this done" before he knew who i was, ive taken all demos offline and no longer send stuff out blindly. I also used to post out my contract for others to view on this actual board until afew people requested me to change teh letterhead to their logos and to copy it word for word... I thought i was helping people until they took it for granted... thats my choice and if you want to diss me on that, feel free to do so. I realy dont care and those that know me, know what im about, which is far more important to me. The only ppl i have to answer to are Dolby Labs and my paying clients. Everyones entitled to their opinion and forums like this are designed for that specific reason.. opinion... |
"im not here to get ideas for my own business growth within the marketplace."
If I'm not mistaken, these boards are here so we can further our knowledge about wedding/event videos. What better way than to compare people's work and discuss it online? Since most wedding/event videography is professional (paid) in nature, many of us here are talking about professional techniques. If one of my competitors came to me on this board and asked what is good and bad about his work, I would give him an honest answer. I am truly dismayed that people would consider the comparison of publicly available video to be inappropriate. Anyway, Michael, I thought of something else that I thought would make your video (from what I have seen in your demo) look better. Have your wife (the one with the more-portable shoulder-cam) go low-angle and shoot the children. I think getting down to the kid's level looks nice and they probably would be less intimidated by a lady. When I shoot kids at an event while they are playing, I flip the screen around so they can see themselves. When the kids see your camera down at their level, most of them will come running. Since the image is coming from the LCD, they don't even put their fingers on the lens! :) Even kids as young as about 1-year seem to get a kick out of it. Can your varizoom rig go low-angle fast? Kids tend to run around in circles. A low-angle tracking shot with the stabilizer rig might look really nice. If they understand what the camera is doing, they will probably buzz around it like crazy. You already seem to be trying to get the shot. I think the key may be low-angle and let the kids understand that they are on TV. I don't usually like to "interfere" with the day's events, but sometimes the kids look so bored that I can't help but try to entertain them a bit. |
another perfect example of selective reading i think...
my reasons for being here may be different to yours, im here to strictly offer business advice and a business perspective to the producers out there asking business relevant questions. Its quite easy to lose the big picture in this game, and thats why i post what i do here.. also HOW i pst may be mistakenly recieved as being overly critical Those who have read some of my previous posts on other threads, would understand that im not out to be negative, but im being realistic with a real world perspective. In this case, its about business practices, and waht one may deem to be education, another may deem to be plagiarism... "im not here to get ideas for my own business growth within the marketplace." Youve selectively quoted me, which ive becomed accustomed to within this forum.... but again, those that dont know me, wouldnt get half the shit i wirte anyway...so im no too fussed.. but u failed to mention the other half od that statement being that "Sure seeing peoples techniques gives u ideas, but it depends on what u do with those ideas as to whether its seen as learning, or whether its seen as plagiurism... What you do with what you see from others work is your business.. what im trying to say is that there are different needs and requirements for each client so what may work for one, may not work for another and comparing one producers work against another simply doesnt make sense as their target clientelle may be totally different to yours... As for learning, in this game, youre ALWAYS learning, so making a point of it is another thing thats entirely up to you. Each to their own " Theres alot more to what i say than what can be quoted in one line.. to extend on my own quote.. if u limit yourself to one way of working, or any one particular style, you limit your clientelle options.. What if for example a potential client goes to your site and they want something totally out there.. and all you have to show for your work is those videos which are there... and nothing that caters for that particular person.. a "first impression" is what u have right there on ur site.. and if u dont nail that impression, you lose that client potentially... There would be nothing for them to look twice at you.. however, if u hold back, the client will tell you what theyre looking for, before they even see your work.. this also gives tehma shance to look at your prices and everything else you offer BEFORE they see work.. then if your out of their budget, u move to the next client.. BUT if you are within the budget, then u fish out the full presentation of that "out there" wedding which uve done in the past and show them the FULL piece... as the original client recieved it... This shows consistancy and your actual work for what it trully is as a WHOLE.. This is a different way of workng and requires a lil more research and time of your clients needs on ur part, however its that interaction before they even see your work, and that personal touch to THEIR needs, which makes online demos as well as online pricing so dangerous, as you lose this whole communication with your client before you even get a chance to sell to the them.. But the point here is to not limit yourself... and i guess an even more important point would be to focus more on ones own work and customer service as opposed to tryin to see what others are doing and tryin to emulate that.... if more people focused on whats goin on in their own backyard, this industry wouldnt be in the shambles its in.. Like i said, everyone is still learning.. and if ur not learning, theres something seriously wrong... but do it the right way.. this thread is not the right way... |
"But the point here is to not limit yourself...
and i guess an even more important point would be to focus more on ones own work and customer service as opposed to tryin to see what others are doing and tryin to emulate that.... if more people focused on whats goin on in their own backyard, this industry wouldnt be in the shambles its in.." I can't possibly selectively quote you here. I took the whole paragraph. I didn't suggest that Michael emulate other people's work. I gave suggestions as to what others may be doing better and also how I think it would be better. It is up to him to decide. That is where it goes into his back yard. He wants to know what can be done better and no single style is perfect. People learn from the works of others. It is as simple as that. People build upon what came before. Paying attention to one's own work entails making sure that one doesn't have problems that others have solved already. This thread IS the right way. Regardless of my other opinions, I like your comments about client interaction. Part of the solution is the responsibility of good web design. If a client sees a wide range of your talent, they will see that you are flexible to their needs. On the other hand, personal interaction right up front (as you mention) is something I would not like to lose. That is probably where bridal expos come in. Until a videographer has tons of personal referrals, they will probably need to use the web extensively to get the word out. Perhaps at a certain point it is appropriate to insist on direct interaction. |
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Thank you
Chris, thank you for the control.. I appreciate it.
Marcus, you are being more than helpful.. thank you for your constuctive criticism. ______________ Getting back to point: I have saved in my web files a list of (in my opinion) the best wedding videographers clips. Before I shoot I go back to all of the clips and review them for inspiration. This doesn't take away from my "style" but adds new ideas & passion for the day, esspecially if I'm feeling a bit stale or burnt-out. This really isn't about "who's" best, so perhaps I should have titled it differently, its really about who's out there doing really great work, although I think from my original post that should have been clear enough. I checked out a few of the people that walter posted.. good stuff; I haven't had a chance to look at them all, but I will as soon as I can. I notice their are alot of people that use good framing & depth in the shots; looks like a small range of tracking without steadicam gear. One thing I like about david perry's stuff is the very artistic angles and use of wide angle, esspecially when tracking across the church door etc., the very first thing that I noticed about Iris is the amazing framing...absolutly awesome. Marcus, about your question with the rig regarding low mode. Yes, I can flip it over quickly to get low shots, I have only started doing that... we filmed a couple down at redondo beach and I wanted to get a shot of their feet walking in the sand/water so I fliped my camea upside down... unfortunetly I couldn't see my LCD so I had to wing-it as far as footage goes, but it worked out. My wife was freaking out cus the camera was like an inch from the water. :) haha Here's a link to that if your interested, its a quick date video: http://visualmasterpiece.com/quicktime/robin_lanea.mov it may take a bit to dL? As far as with kids... David Perry does the flip thing with the LCD, and kids just love it, they are so attentive to him once he does (he's also very charismatic and even a little goofy - he's a very fun & likeable person!). Unfortunetly with the XL2's we just can't do that, there's no lCD :( SO on occations where we've tried getting close ups of kids, they just stare at us like "what the heck are you doing?" kinda looks, and that's no fun... any advice on this.. short of getting a camera with a pop-out lcd? |
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Do you think a GL2 would be ok to use alongside an XL2? I have been actually dreaming of using a GL alongside our XL's, as I've hoped that canon make something (GL3) of equal caliber to the XL2. Here's the delema, let me know if its just "hot smoke"; we shoot and deliver in 16x9, the xl2 chips are quite different, Also (so far) we have been shooting all our weddings in 24p & 30p (even for slo-mo) and I know that the GL only shoots in 60i. Other than that, there is really nothing that I can think of that is majorly different, the colors should be very similar. I've been considering a 3rd camera/backup camera, and I've been waiting for a GL3, but it seems like forever.. should I just give and get a GL2? |
So who is the "best"? Well the definition of the word "best" can be defined in so many ways by different people. What is considered the "best" by one person's taste isn't necessarily universal. Make no mistake about it wedding videography IS an artform- and as like any artform it's extremely subjective.
To me the "best" are the people who have a genuine passion for video, have good client relations, and are financially and socially sucessfull supporting a family doing none other than the thing they love most. |
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How about the man himself... Walter S Chelliah. Winner of the weva award of excellence and two first place Diamond awards this year from the 4ever group. Walter use to be with my company, but stay tuned as he unveils his own brand of wedding videography. I am sure his site ill quickly become bookmarked on your computers soon :) |
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Cool! Thanks for the post... Is there any footage of his online currently? |
pffft, my stuff doesn't belong in any list that has the word "best" in it at all. I think dmb is trying to get out of the $10 he owes me for helping him dump grass at the landfill.
Here are some sites that have some great videos: http://www.gpva.com/Theatre/ http://www.4evergroup.org/artisticac...entawards.html One video I personally wanted to recommend is the Stage Event Production Segment Diamond Winner by Peter Boardman of Lifestory Video Productions on the 4EG site. It's amazing. |
Walter thanks for joining us, I appreciate your post; i'm checking out the footage right now.
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ok, I just finished watching your video...
Diamond Winner DMB Video Productions Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Walter Chelliah Tyson Wedding Dang.. Now, I didn't know what to think at first; kinda shocked, amazed and horified all at the same time ;) so I had to watch it a few times in a row. I must say awesome editing & use of effects; great for the music it's set to, you did an awesome job. I have a date video that I shot and am editing right now; I always ask for the music in advance so that I can get a "feel" for what I want to shoot & edit for. This couple didn't deliver in time so when we went out I just did the normal stuff that we do - got some nice shots etc...I thought it had never really been a problem before. So a week later I got the music and thought to myself, wow.. did I screw up or what? the footage doesn't match the music at all! I would have done something totally different. (so its a Foo Fighters song - a real up-beat-knock-your-head-against-the-wall kinda thing; and don't get me wrong I've got long hair and jammed to metallica when in HS); but all the same it took me by suprise. So... How'd you do that? |
"One video I personally wanted to recommend is the Stage Event Production Segment Diamond Winner by Peter Boardman of Lifestory Video Productions on the 4EG site. It's amazing."
Wow, you're right about that! Very creative. |
I just watched it too.. that is very cool; quite an unusual bit. I loved the emotion that was transfered to film; great subjects; lighting; and I love the birds eye shots. They also have great camera movement.
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See... Walt and Dave's work is a testament to the fact you can't choose a "best". Wedding videography comes in so many shapes and sizes- their work is an exemplorary example of cutting edge style that is light hearted and fun. How can you compare that against a slow and dramatic Joel Peregrine piece? You can't. They are both great in their own right, both in very different ways.
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Yeah, that's cool... isn't it great!!! I'm a fan :-)
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best at what?
Do you mean best at wedding video. AFAICS all the links in this thread point to highlight clips that do little to showcase the skills unique to wedding video. There was a post on VU recently about a book for grooms, very negative about video the guy sounded like he had an ax to grind, but one thing he did say, which I think this thread kind of supports is that "wedding videogarphers try to turn something they hate (wedding video) into something they love (movie directing)".
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although I am not planning on doing weddings for more than 5 years :) |
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That is one person's narrow minded negative view and if he causes some people not to get videos , so be it. Their loss. All kinds of video sells, from an uncle Charlie basement bargain to the Cinematic Multi shooter setup. From the MTV to the candid.. If you selling videos with you currant style and enjoy the work..and happy with the money you make. If your clients are happy and send you referrals and tell you they LOVE IT. Then what else matters. Don't fix something that isn't broke. |
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I feel very blessed to be able to make a living filming weddings, and if its what I'd always dreamed about, there would be no reason to stop. |
absolutely right David
making a living is job 1. But improving a product can sometimes involve more than tweaking. 90% of weddings don't have video, and 90% of videos AFAICS are sold at a price that could not possibly support a professional business.
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Michael - I thought you were joking
sorry for misunderstanding
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Michael love your work. in my opinion i think you are by far the best out of that bunch.
Quick question, What is the name of that song on your show-reel piece? its ver poweful... |
many thanks... im in the middle of totally revamping the site with new stuff; I'll let you know when its up. Should be late this week.
As for the song... I got that from a friend, and to be totally honest I don't know if I can release that info. Sorry, but yeah... music (for me anyway) makes all the difference; when I edit to a song I just don't like or has no beat (or too much - HardROCK... go figure?), things just never turn out right, I get all frustrated and start doing other things because I just don't want to edit, I end up spending way too much time on the project, and then I'll sometimes call them up and ask for a different song :) When you watch a feature film, listen to the songs they choose, often times they are alternative/modern songs that you may never hear on the radio... but they are often the best songs to edit to. |
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