How long do you give yourself until you delivery DVD after Wedding?
 

i just shot one on Saturday =). now i gotta know what's a reasonable deadline?

4 months. longer during peak times. no promises. it's done when it's perfect.

i started off at 3 months,
then that jumped to 5 when business kicked in..

soon after i hit the 8 to 10 months delivery, but i make no promises to them whatsoever. .
putting down a delivery date in writing is probabaly the biggest headache i am dealing with now. No seriously once there is a date ther, if they get it one day late, they'll hate u.
Now consider that youre a one man band, everythign is done yourself, all
consultations, filming and editing. This is ALOT of work for a measly 2 grand...

I learnt the hard way with promising delivery times.. now i just tell them between 6 to 8 months depending on the workload of the studio.
I also tell them that if they want short form, they will definately get it sooner.

See editing doesnt take long. I can cut maybe 12 hours of multicammed footage and get it all ready with artwork etc within 10 days. Thats how i work and i know im faster than most, but thats not the problem.
The problem is that when u shoot 50 odd weddings a year you literally WILL NEVER be able to deliver the finished goods on a tight deadline like 3 months.. its physically impossible even with 2 machines.. the other factors surrounding the business just get in the way.. from sales, to marketting to emails, to cionsultations, through to living life like a normal human...

ummm, wouldn't the bride&groom get irritated? is this the industry norm? delivery after a few months?

Four weeks in my contract. Alittle longer during busy months. I can only double book weekends(two photography, two video a week) so things don't get to backed up. I agree that things would get backed up if you do everything yourself and had more than two weddings a week. I know a guy that claims to have 11 weddings a week(both photography & video).

One thing about having your own business is that you set your own hours. I know alot of lazy editors that don't work a full 8 hour(or more) day. You can get alot done in a day if you work hard esp with real time editing on a fast machine. I also do all my digital photography files aswell? 50% raw files to boot. Rarely hits six weeks.


John

One to Two weeks.

i know photographers that deliver in 6-8 months, and we're talking one or two data dvds with cropped and color corrected jpegs.

i can do a dvd in 3 days if that's all i have going on. but take into consideration that we are filming weddings almost every weekend (sometimes two weddings in one weekend for every weekend of the month on peak times) and i still have my day job animating for videogames and it works out to be something like 4 to 6 months.

yes, i can probably go faster, but quality gets lower.

One to two weeks. Any longer than that and you risk them parting and not wanting to pay the balance. I had one couple that parted after 3 weeks but the good news was she had me back 5 years later to film her second wedding. Nearly 3 years now, so she made a better choice this time.

tom.

thats why they pay in advance, and if they dont want to pay in advance, they can go elsewhere.. on top of that, if theyre worried abotutheir investment, they have a 3 part contract which protects it..

They probably 'go elsewhere' and come to my door Peter. I always want to see the work a man does for me before I pay him. If he carpets my floor, photographs my children, digs my garden, makes me a suit I want to have a good look at his workmanship before I hand over the dosh.

I treat my clients in just the same way. I hand over the DVDs and they hand over the money. Never yet had a defaulter.

tom.

Good rule of thumb, try to get the video done prior to the divorce. Any later than that, your S.O.L.!

Working part time (wedding videography is not my full time job) - it took me a little over a month and a half to get out a one and a half hour DVD to the customer (which they loved, BTW). Working full time, I probably could have had it out in a two week period. I shout about 11 hours of tape on this particular wedding.

I guess it all depends on how good you are with an editing system, and how anal you are with the details. I go untill I am 95% satisfied with it (I am never 100% satisfied with anything I shoot and edit - I always want "more") - and then ship it. You need to remember that the customer wants to see this ASAP in most circumstances, so I try to keep that in mind as well.

Ryan

In 10 years of requiring payment in full before the wedding I have had only one bride and groom balk at the idea. I require half at the time of booking and the other half 2 weeks before the wedding. I am a photographer and this is for photography but I see no reason why it would be different for Video.

As a "by the way," the bride and groom that balked at the idea, I made a special arrangement for payment in thirds, one third at booking, one third three months before and the final third upon delivery. They went ahead and paid in full two weeks before the wedding anyway, I think they trusted me at that point.

Bill

deposit due with contract to seal the date, balance due 2 weeks prior to the wedding. i have not yet had a client complain. i want a video i can be proud to show from packaging to content, from start to finish, and that can take time.

I usually do one of two payment methods:

- Half up front/Half on Delivery.

or

- 1/3 up front, 1/3 at wedding (when filming is complete), and 1/3 at delivery. (This is usually how I work Independent films and other event Videography - usually not weddings).

A program like Quickbooks is essential when you have multiple customers with different payment cycles . . .

Ryan

in almost every post that i've made in the wedding forum, it starts to boil down to $. is everything in the wedding industry about $? what about art? not everything is about $.

I provide a rough version, then a final. My target, not promise, is to get the rough out 3 weeks after the wedding. I shoot & edit documentary style, so 3 weeks is comfortably reasonable for me.

The rough is for all practical purposes my final except I superimpose a timecode across the bottom, which makes it a lot easier for the couple to pinpoint and discuss with me exact scenes. Also, I suspect the large timecode discourages the couple making their own dups to give away.

I started doing the timecode thing last year after getting several requests for frame grabs -- so they could get photos (albeit lo rez) made of some treasured moments the photog missed. Turned out to be an easy way to generate a bit more revenue.

The final is done within 2 weeks after we discuss and agree on any changes requested.

So, if the couple gets back to me right away that they're happy with the rough, the final + copies are in their hands within a month after the ceremony.

if it was all about money i wouldn't take time to edit right and give them a half-ass edited version in 1-2 weeks. no magic bullet color grading. no custom motion menus, no custom designed and fiery printed cover on glossy 10 point stock, no custom designed and printed disc. no bonus features. no photo montages.

in fact, if it was all about money i'd be a wedding photographer.

then why do people fall back on talking about payments? that's very strange =). all i asked was, the time of delivery of DVD after wedding, as you scan the replies, the responses slowly delve into, $ this $ that. same with my other threads even when i specifically ask people not to talk about $. i should just start a $ thread! =). i realize that $=time, bla bla bla, all those arguments are fine. i'm OK with that. it's just i'm asking about technique/timing/technical stuff, NOT THE MONEY stuff.

TIME IS MONEY

tracking back on the thread i can see where we got derailed. i'm sorry if i added to the distraction.

Payment and Completion of Wedding Project.
 

If you aren't paid in full up front, I'd recomment a quick turn around, while the wedding is still a good memory. Take it from an attorney who does family law, the bloom can leave a marriage very quickly, and payment for video of the wedding may seem less important only a few months after the wedding.

Chris Barcellos

Funny thing about inviting people into a conversation... you can't control how the topic evolves.

How can you believe that $ has nothing to do with time? You say you just did one - did you charge for it? If not, take your time. Did they pay for it in full? If so, put the freebies aside for now.

However, I get the feeling this is this the only one you've got to deal with right now and as you've learned there really is no industry standard as it depends on time available.

My edits include baby/growing up photo montage, couple photo montage, and honeymoon montage along with ceremony and reception.

It still takes 1 to 2 weeks but I am counting from the day the honeymoon pictures arrive at the studio.

It is not half-ass.

But to correct myself the date I count from is when I receive the honeymoon pictures not the date of the wedding.

just in case i haven't already made it clear, i'm not implying anyone's work on this board is half-ass... it takes me 4-6 months to turn things around starting from the date i receive all the assets (pre-production packet, photos). it usually takes me 2-3 weeks once i finally get to it, from start to finish, but because of wedding shoots, backlog edits and other things going on in my life, 4-6 months is the norm.

it's not that i believe $ has NOTHING 2do with time. i just went on a rant about that! =).

but what i want to know is industry standards&practices (SOP/the norm/"the way we do things"). i don't care about the $ aspect of it yet. it's really just a hobby of mine, i do it for pleasure and not $.

Yi Fong Yu, I personally think (and people who are ACTUALLY doing this kind of stuff, feel free to correct me, because I DON'T do weddings, so actually I shouldn't be replying to this thread, but anyhow) most people do this kind of work because of money and not because of the pleasure.
I think many people still have more pleasure making money with shooting and editing movies instead of working in a factory, but I think that most people still do it for that: making money with it.
You can go a bit creative, but I think you are very restricted too because you have to follow what the couple wants and everything, and it has sooo much to do with business (contracts and stuff)...
I think people who really are into making things with digital video are mostly going to make documentaries and indie films, because there you have lots of more creative freedom. That's a more artistic area than wedding videography.
I think also many indie filmmakers are doing this type of work to earn money to be able to put that money into their indie films...

And please, don't think this is an attack on videographers, and I CERTAINLY won't say you guys ain't creative in making those menus and stuff, that's all first rate stuff!
But I think you can't argue that it's another type of creativity then doing an indie movie...?

And as I said: if this reply of me is a complete bullshit reply, that doesn't hold any sense, feel free to correct me, as I don't do wedding videography. I once thought about it, to earn money for my indie films, but then I thought I'm not that good with business things.
And it's also a complete different area with LOTS of responsibilaties (of course as an indie filmmaker, you have those too, but more towards other people who are paying you - the couple) which you should educate in before starting to do weddings.
And maybe I wrote this reply too much from my own point of view (indie filmmaker, not really interested in doing weddings, once thought of it because of earning some money with it to do really creative projects)

that's true matthieu,

on the other hand, as with all industries, there are industry norms. is the conclusion, then, that the "norm" of the wedding industry is that there IS no norm? i should think there is SOME sort of norm. first is the wedding ceremony itself. i mean, there should be one for the wedding video industry to exist. after all, you don't skip the ceremony and just have a reception and that's all! what i'm trying to find out is that some sort of norm, no matter how broad it may appear to be.

i would be one of those people.

i love doing weddings, i love meeting new people, i love being in different places every weekend, and i actually found myself crying at 3 ceremonies i've filmed in 2005 (and i don't know these people), the last one being 12/30.

...but the bottom line is that i'm saving up to shoot a feature.

What I wouldn't give just to holler, "CUT!" at a wedding ceremony. :)

With regard to editing? Yes, that's true. Like most everthing else there are no universal constants.

10 hours (raw footage only) to 1 year (one man crew that's overbooked).

Yi Fong Yu
There is no norm because videographers deliver differenty types of products with different levels of sophistication. Some can deliver in eight weeks, some in eight months. It doen't matter what the time frame is as long as it's clear to the client and stipulated in the agreement.


Mathieu
You got a pretty loaded post and I apologize If I misread it. But being a full time wedding videographer, it elicited some reactions ffrom me.

1. Indie filmmaking seems to be held up as the holy grail of digital videomakers. And if you're not one or at least aspire to be one it seems that "you're not all that". There are a lot of areas to digital video - weddings, corporate, indie films, MTVS. Each area necessitates creativity and skill and to dismiss all others as subordinate to one is pretty demeaning. Creativity and artistry are very subjective, to suggest that indie movie making demands MORE of them than do weddings is, umm, BS for me.

3. "And please, don't think this is an attack on videographers, and I CERTAINLY won't say you guys ain't creative in making those menus and stuff, that's all first rate stuff!"

This is pretty sly. You praise the wedding videographer yet for the wrong reasons. The menus are first rate?! Darn, no mention about the videos themselves. (maybe it's part of the "stuff".)
- Darn that was a pretty awesome short!. My favorite part was the trailer! -

I'm a laid back kind of person and don't easily get riled up. I just feel strongly about this one.

Cheers.

LOL!

Jason, I understand about what you said, although I should clear some things up: the reason why I said that about those dvd menu's was because (if I look back on it, it isn't a justified view) I was thinking: good shooting should everybody do, on a filmset OR on a wedding.
But for weddings it comes down in the end on the dvd you deliver. The delivery is soo much more important because you're under a contract.

But I'll admit, for indie movies you have to make a good dvd too, preferably with menus and nice animations too.

And believe me, I care about the shooting you guys do at weddings! I think I'll be one of the first to admit shooting a wedding would be much more difficult then shooting a movie where you can control the lightening and your actors, instead of having people running around and dimly-lit receptions.
Hey, I couldn't do it properly, I think!

So sorry if the post came over as too one-sided.
Best regards,

PS: Yi Fong Yu, I think your question was completely valid in the first place, but because of my inexperience I would be the wrong one to answer.

to be honest, in my 6 years doing "front of house" production where im shooting and directing etc, weddings are the most difficult..
Not to say im unskilled, but the lack of direction, the clientelle, and the "one man band" element of it is what makes it so hard..

wedding producers dont have it easy and there are no second takes..

i respect ANYONE who is brave enough to make afew bux and offer a decent weding presentation...

Of course, and I respect them very much!
As I said, (and like you pointed out) it's a very hard job, that takes up a lot of time and energy.

But I think still most people do this job for the money.
(BTW: I also think wedding photographers are overpayed or - more approperiate - wedding videographers are underpaid, especially in comparison)
When you make an indie movie, you don't have that much work, but you don't earn money too (most of the time). It's stupid trying to make indie movies for living. It's a nice try, but on the level of most people here, you won't earn enough to feed yourself with it.
I just wanted to react on Yi Fong Yu who at a moment asked: is it al about the money in wedding videography?
I don't think it's ALL about the money, but in the end, you want to make money, if you're doing this job, however much you feel for the weddings itself.

But maybe it's best to go back on-topic now.

jason,

while a norm is certainly hard to come by in virtually any industry, i think there are certain things. that's why i said, first you need a ceremony and not ONLY have a reception, ya know?

that's why i made the post. to get people talking. that's the key to understanding the industry more.

4 to 6 months delivery time is WAY too long....I am surprised that any client tolerates this. 2 1/2 months maximum is reasonable.

Perhaps better pre production will save you time during the edit....meaning, you know what you want to do in post ahead of time...prior to shooting.

brides are used to waiting 4-6 months for a good photo album.

they are aware of this wait ahead of time and are free to go elsewhere if they want it sooner. during slow periods they sometimes get their dvds in less than a month, but no way am i holding myself to that contractually.

i'm a big proponent in under-promise, over-deliver. ymmv.

Maybe not. Now it's down to a couple of weeks.

The last wedding I did, the couple got their pix from the pro photog in less than two weeks.

This photog shot everything digital, tossed the trash shots, color corrected or whatever the rest, burned to disk, and delivered the disk to couple. End of job.

So, it was up to the couple to pick whatever shots they liked, go to their favorite 1-hr Photo or whatever, and make as many of whatever sizes they wanted. But, bottom line, they had the pix shortly after returning from the honeymoon.

First time I heard of that being done around here, so I don't know if this is an isolated case or a new trend. Took the wind out of my sails, 'cuz I've always had my video done and delivered months before any couple received their photos.

Yeah....I frequent many bride forums to check out what they are saying to each other, and they do not like waiting 4 to 6 months for a video. They say things like, "I liked my wedding dvd, BUT, I had to wait 5 months to get it because ZYX Videography have been very busy"......the BUT part is what you do not want being said about your services. You want.....they did a great job and I would highly recommend them....that's that.

The ZYX Videography is made up for quoting purposes.

As for photographers.....now that most have gone to digital, atleast in LA and OC, California, their turn around times are much faster than 4 months. Many of them do "post" work but even with that they have fairly quick turn arounds.