The Rationale of an SDE
 

I'm opening this thread up as some discussion in the feb 12 sde thread may get buried. Victor mentioned some very valid points and I'd like to address them here.

Vincent:
I can see the reason for stills photographers showing their proof prints at the reception i.e. try to sell as many prints as possible, but this is not so commonm these days.. Perhaps I am missing an oppertunity to generate a few extra DVD sales by not offering a SDE, but generally I find the people are busy enjoying themselves and I try to capture as much of this as possible. Jason says he spent 3-4 hours editing, I would rather spend this time shooting.

Me:
Why do one?

1. Perhaps the best marketing tool available for us wedding videographers. (the wedding video will be viewed by the couple and at most, their family, the SDE is screened in front of hundreds). You don't miss a couple of DVD sales, you miss a chance to sell your services to a lot more poeple.
2. It's a moment where the couple can take a break and relive what's happened (the day was a blur for them, it's nice to watch it in slo mo this time).
3. It's a good piece of entertainment (if done right)
4. On my part, it's very fulfilling once I see the audience response especially the couple's.

Vincent:
1. Yes, of course showing your work to the guests is a good marketing tool, and no doubt you will pick up some extra work. From a clients point of view I wouldn't like anyone pitching for business on my day. But I am sure that your not doing a hard sell.

2. Take a break on your wedding day? Surely, talking to guests, enjoying the day has to be the important element of the day.

3. Yes, it's a good piece of entertainment, but then so is the father-in -law doing his John Travolta dance.

4. I'm sure it is a very fulfilling for you to see the audience, but that's a bit self indulgent.

It's quite fortunate that most of my clients don't mind a very brief bumper at the end of the SDE. I have one future client who prefered not having my name at the end and I acceeded to this request. I'm sure there are tacky ways to market oneself though which we generally try to avoid.

There are so many "moments" on a wedding day. We are just offering the SDE as one of these many moments.

I admit to the self indulgence. But an artist needs an audience :-).

I posted this question in the other thread, before I noticed this one, so if you prefer to answer it here, that's fine.

My questions is . . . what is the shortest amount of time you've had to put together an SDE?

I usually measure the alloted time from the point when the ceremony ends until it's time to screen the SDE. The shortest length of time I've been alloted is one hour.

Knowing this before hand, I try as much to finish before the ceremony ends and adjust the editing - less filters, more slomo, and less timing.

Where do you find the time?
 

My partner & I have been doing wedding photos and video for a couple of years. He is the photographer, and I am responsible for the video. We occasionally bring along a 3rd person for 2nd camera work.

The wedding we did this past weekend is fairly typical. The timing of the day goes like:
1:30PM - Arrive at church, begin equipment setup, photos & video of bridal party preparation.
2:30PM - Photographer gets pre-ceremony pix of the bridal party. Video equipment is setup.
3:30PM - Bridal party scurries away... guests are arriving. more photos and video. get b-roll now.
4:00PM - Ceremony begins ... all hands on deck!
4:30 - 5:15PM Ceremony ended... begin packing up equipment. Photographer takes post-ceremony pics.
6:00PM Race to the reception site
-6:30PM Setup equipment. Photos & video of venue and guests. Talk to DJ to get a plan of atack
7:00PM - Bridal party arrives
7:15PM - Toasts
7:30PM dinner for all ... including hired help (us)
7:50PM - Cut the cake
8:10PM - 1st Dance
8:15PM - 8:30PM Father-daughter, Mother-son, bridal party dances
8:30PM - 8:45 PM general dancing and drinking and drinking
8:45PM - 9:00 PM Bouquet toss... garter toss.. garter retrieval
9:00PM - midnight & beyond ... continued drinking, dancing and drinking ... all captured on video.

Now, where in that hectic schedule does one find 3-4 hours to do an edit ... and have it available early enough before the assembled crowd disperses or is blind drunk?

What do you mean by "finish before the ceremony ends"? Do you mean finish the SDE, or just finish shooting video?

That's pretty much my day as well...and I work solo most of the time, so I've wondered the same thing as well.

We don't yet offer SDE's but I figure if the time comes that we do, it'll HAVE to be with a crew of at least 3. (1 editor, 1 shooter, 1 gopher/2nd shooter) Plus, most of the edit seems like it will have to be cookie cutter, with a spot to drop in that day's ceremony footage.

Well, that's how I think it MIGHT work...

That is pretty much our typical schedule. I would leave the ceremony right away and start editing until the first dance. Have the video exporting during the dances and then it is ready to show right after. That actually looks like a fairly good schedule all things considered. While I'm gone I would have another videographer covering the photo-session and cocktail hour etc.

I'm in pretty much the same boat, except like this:

8am-10am
Shoot footage of groom/groomsmen golfing first 9 holes.

10:30am - 12:30pm
Shoot footage of brides/bridesmaids getting ready (hair, makeup, nails, etc).

12:30pm - 1:00pm
Shoot footage of groom/groomsmen getting ready.

1:00pm - 1:30pm
Shoot footage of final bridal preparations (dress, jewelry, garter, shoes, makeup touchups, etc).

1:30pm - 3:30pm
Shoot footage of the photoshoot.

3:30pm - 4:00pm
Set up for ceremony.

4:00pm - 4:30pm
Shoot ceremony.

4:30pm - 5:00pm
Shoot mingling with guests or receiving line (assistant is breaking down and packing all gear) and then haul ass to the reception site.

5:00pm - midnight
Shoot reception (toasts, dances, bouquet/garter, special additions, general dancing, personal messages, etc.)


I'm with you Ron. I generally don't even have time to eat on the wedding day (literally), so I can't comprehend offering an SDE.

When we show an SDE paired with a love story, it absolutely engages the audience and moves many of them to laughter and tears throughout the 12-16 minute running time. The couple often needs a 10 minute break following the presentation before they can do their speech as they are so emotional. We have also been told several times that previewing the love story and SDE at the wedding was one of the best parts of their day.

When done right, as Jason does, it is pretty insulting to compare the entertainment value to the father-in-law dancing.

On the other hand, I think adding a love story to the beginning really goes that extra step and tells the story of the couple. An SDE can really move a crowd, but having a 10 minute setup where you can be entertained and learn how the couple met etc, just makes the SDE that much better.

Patrick

Hey Jason! I just wanted to chime in on this thread... SDE's are awesome! I've done 2 before and as you know, they bring the house down! The majority of the people around here have never even heard of one or can fathom the fact that they can be done. (Wedding video is more-so still an afterthought around here.) Anyways, we have a big one coming up this weekend (April 22nd) and I already have the song picked out, the edit in my head, and will be doing the titles and setting my markers to time with various cutpoints to make things go easier on the wedding day.

This particular bride hired me on several factors and SDE was one of them. I believe she saw one in a larger city and knew the value of it. We talked about the timeline of the day and she wanted some first dance footage in it... given that timeline, it wouldn't be possible, BUT she rearranged the order of the WHOLE reception to make it work! This gal VALUES video!

I don't do fullblown SDEs like you and some others do, basically all I'll be showing is a photomontage and a trailer... this trailer will be about 2 minutes long vs. my "standard" of 1 minute.

Yes, there is some self-gratification in absorbing the whole viewing by the guests, but even more-so with the client.

We as an "industry" need to expose good quality product to the masses, and SDE's are just one method of a "cheap" way to do this... The more people that see what is capable, the more people will value a great video.

Jerome,

I assume you get a premium for the SDE. Without me asking too personal of a question, how much more would you say the SDE demands over your normal fee? (30%, 50%, 100%, etc.)

Thanks,

Mark

I have done 8 SDE's in past few months and they are quite the hot commodity here in Hawaii. I have had nothing, but good feedback on SDE's I have done. I am usually contacted by a photographer looking to hire someone to do a SDE. I am there shooting strictly for highlight footage. When the couple leaves for the reception I edit the footage. I tipically have 2 to 3 hours for capturing, editing, rendering and printing back to tape. Due to the short time I usually will have already have made the intro and ending using engagement photos provided by the photog. I usually do not put my credits at the end of the video.

SDE's are an important part of the wedding day now because the bride and Groom are normally too stressed out to even remember what just happened. Typically 20 people are at the wedding and 200 at the reception, so this allows them to enjoy with the couple. This world today is about instant gradification and if we don't take advantage of that, then someone else will. Like photog's offering video services.

An SDE adds $300 to my basic package.

Ron

Yes finish as much as I can editing the SDE while another videog takes my place.

Geography was mentioned. I'm glad Hawaii is picking up. They're pretty big in Cali and NY already.

In Manila, all videogs I know do SDEs.

We all have busy days on a wedding, It's a matter of picking the right tools and planning the logistics to pull off an SDE.

I'd like to add too, that I do mine with a crew of three. Joel Peregrine does one still ALONE. Am I safe to say then that there is no excuse?

I guess for me it still comes down to lack of time.

I have a 2 man man crew and we shoot the ceremony with 3 cameras, so leaving the ceremony early is not an option.

I don't have any time between the ceremony and the reception because the time the couple leaves between the two is usually based on how long it will take their guests to drive from one to the other (and I don't own a helicopter so I can't get there any faster than the guests).

My assistant shooters are not nearly as experienced as I am, so I can't leave them to shoot the first half of the reception (the most important stuff - entrance, first dance, father-daughter and mother-son dances, toasts, etc.) because that's a big risk. And by the time that stuff is over, most people start leaving (only the family and hard-core partiers tend to stay).

So I guess I still have an excuse. Time. d;-)

I'm sold on the love story idea -- taking a bunch of footage on a 'date night' and having it ready to finish with some ceremony shots at the wedding. If the couple likes doing something like swing dancing or motorcycling, or carnival rides you could come away with some very fun and challenging shots.

I also like the idea of couples sharing how they met -- those can be inspiring to singles in the crowd. You just might help someone out!

This is what I plan to offer next year. It seems like it might possibly be a bigger hit with the guests than an SDE since many of them will have already been a part of the ceremony, but won't know how the couple met or what they like to do together. It's also hard to not get sucked in by hearing an interview with the couple. So until SDE's make financial sense for me, I'm probably going to stick with love stories and just keep admiring Jason's work, lol.

Just go to my site and see my prices... www.jcdv.com Basically I'm one of the highest priced in my "area". Charging $600 for SDE (actually SDT "Same Day Trailer" with photo montage.)

You'll have to choose a package without an addon included to see the price....

I worked for a guy for about 5 years that did SDE frequently. We worked this way.

I shot the mobile camera during the ceremony because of my stabilized monopod. I usually shot bride OTS to get the groom's vows then moved to the aisle to get the rings and the kiss then walked backwards down the aisle to catch the recessional. We usually stayed to get the signing, but would leave if they wanted to do lots of pictures before getting in the limo. You just can't wait 45 minutes for photography if you are doing a SDE. In the beginning, we drove separately and he would go back to the shop and do the editing.

It almost always takes 2.5 hours. In Hawaii, there is almost always 1.5 hours between the very end of the ceremony and the entrance of the wedding party into the ballroom. There are usually cocktails served to the guests between ceremony and reception at a hotel ballroom. Dinner is usually at least 1.5 hours. This leaves at least 3 hours for editing and transportation.

Of course, while he would be editing, I would shoot the beginning of the reception. Sometimes we had a third person to help move equipment because the guy I worked with also was often the DJ. Actually, I should say VJ since we set up a projector for the SDE and to show video disco. That's a lot of equipment to set up.

The SDE was almost always done before the buffet closed so everyone got to eat and we would usually set up a second camera to shoot the special reception events. It's fairly easy to shoot up to dinner with one camera.

Jason.....imo, you don't need to explain anything, your work rocks....period, if someone needs explaining of why your work looks so good in such a short time......I doubt they would ever understand anyway!

I also do SDE's.....and they are damn good too, and not cheap!

For me....I only offer SDE's to clients who have a buffer of atleast 2 1/2 hrs from the end of ceremony until the piece will be aired.....but thats me. I do like the pressure of pulling them off....in a very creative way....a sick pleasure I supose.




Keep up the great work on the SDE's......and keep raising the bar.

The rationale...

hmm...

for business.. good... for potential future clients.. also good..
IF and ONLY IF the clients are willing to accomodate the requirements and PAY for it accordingly..

SDE's are always fine and dandy for the "wow factor"

the negative... well put it this way.. first of all, u have to find a client whos willing to pay for this..
In many markets this just isnt possible.. for many areas, its difficult enough to sell video as it is, let alone an upgrade to include an SDE..

theres also the issue of being considered pretentious and ostentatious.. for many markets, the discretion of what we do and having the ability to pull it off is offset by this kind of ostentatious display.

I for one am embaressed when we present slideshows or preshoots, or SDE's... Why?
Because my primary role is to archive the day in a discrete manner, not show off what i can do.
Fair enough the story is about the client, but as its already fresh in the punters minds, theres no point in rehashing a story theve just experienced not too long ago.. so there has to be a catch to make that story stand out....
So whats the catch of an SDE?
The answer is "wow factor"
And unfortunately, thats all there is to it...

In many cases, potential clients will see how one conducts themselves on the day, and will book based on what theyve seen of you.

To me, what i do on the day sells me, what im capable of sells itself...

I dont say no to an SDE, but i also dont need it to get clients, so i dont push it. Like i said, an SDE is wow factor...

There is a market for everything, and if u can tap into the higher end market, all the power to you, but in some places, its just not a feasable option, so theres no point in flogging a dead horse.
Put it this way.. here in Aus, average goin price is between 2500 and 3grand and to sell THAT is nigh on impossible unless youve got something up your sleave. An SDE will put at least 800 on that and in my experience, people are just not prepared to pay for that.. not here anyway..

Shame really, coz wow factor is always fun..

Hi Joe,

Sorry to take this off-topid, but I don't think I've seen any of your work. Wondering if you could share an SDE or a highlights?

Thanks

Patrick

I'm not seeing where it needs to cost that much more. STEs free up my week and give me exposure while costing me some extra hustle. I should be in better shape anyway! ;o) The biggest negative for me is how perfectionistic I am, but even that turns into a positive in that I cannot spend hours on some little detail that eats away my margin.

The only reason I only do linear SDEs is the cost of Firestores.

I want to clarify that this thread IS about asking Jason questions like "how he does such quality work in a short time". Assuming that asking the question means I won't understand the answer is stupid on your part. Let's show some professional respect here.

And for the record, wedding markets are different everywhere. Maybe in your market and Jason's market it is customary to have several hours between the ceremony and the reception, but it's not like that everywhere. So for those of us that live in a market where we have 30 minutes to pack up our gear and drive to the reception and start filming again, it was a mystery as to how you could pull off an SDE. THAT is why asking questions is a GOOD idea. Thank you.

I know you videographers are busy during the wedding day, I know your job is to not only capture images but keep your clients engaged and to make them feel like you are a part of the day which results in more intimate footage.

That's why you should hire a freelance editor like me to cut you SDEs. I meet you at the church,you drop off the tape, go do your photo session (around here, that is usually an hour or so due to the traffic and locations used) and I will meet you at the Hall and drop off the DVD with the SLE which will wow your audience during the Couple's entrance and create a real feeling of excietment

Um .. that wasn't too self promotional was it?

Here in Tulsa, the reception immediately follows the ceremony. We don't have 2-3 hours of down time. We don't usually even have a cocktail hour.

All of our receptions are covered with two cameras, so what we do is hire a third person for SDE's. Depending on the circumstances we will either have him, Jason or my son Matt, come for the ceremony so Trisha can edit during that time. Or other times, the third person comes towards the end of the ceremony so they can help us load gear and rush to the reception.

If you only need one shooter for the reception, it would make the process easier, as long as you can count on that one shooter.

We just did a SDE last weekend. Trisha and I were subcontracted to do just the SDE, as the company that hired us shot for the full day wedding coverage.

Here is how it came off. We shot our establishing and prep shots and loaded them in before the ceremony started. By the time the ceremony was over, Trisha had all of the prep done and was ready for the ceremony footage. The edit was done about 2:15 after the ceremony. It wasn't shown for another 45 minutes, but in that time we made the DVD and duplicated 200 discs as party favors.

We are not especially fast editors. It is a challenge to be technically solid, while at the same time being creative, under a set time restriction, but it is possible. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Mark, are you using a DTE device?

I hear you. It's definitely possible for me to do an SDE. In fact, I've one already.

At this point, though, I think I'd rather present a love story video. I know and SDE would "wow" people as Peter mentioned, and I believe it, but I think a love story video could be just as effective. Actually, I think it could be more effective.

First, I have more time to plan, shoot and edit it, which means it will be more polished (face it, we can't all be Jason, lol).

Second, I think it's more engaging for the guests to learn about how the couple met and what their first date was like and where they first kissed and how he proposed . . than it is to relive moments from the wedding day . . especially since most of the guests will have been at the ceremony anyways.

Finally, it's less stressful for me on the wedding day, and also less expensive from an investment perspective.


That's not to say I won't ever do more SDE's, but I'm not going to push them just yet. And thank you, Jason, for starting this thread (sorry it seems to keep veering offtopic).

Hi Jerome,

We had an nNovia drive on the front camera, which had the grooms wireless.

I tested the nNovia with the Z1 and it worked fine, but on the day of the wedding the nNovia would not transfer the files, so we had to capture from the front cameras tape.

This is the first time in three years that the nNovia has failed me. Now to figure out why.

Hi Travis,

I didn't know you had already done a SDE. Congratulations!

Love Stories can be great to show at the reception. We have shown dozens of Love Stories at receptions. While our Love Story projections have been well received, they do not receive the same response as a SDE. Love Stories receive applause, SDEs get standing O's.

Even though the guest just came from the weddings, they did not view the ceremony from various angles and through our creative eyes. Most of the time they did not see the tear roll down the Brides face or even hear the vows. Hearing the emotion in the B&Gs voices is an incredible thing to experience, and many people have no idea what that is like until they experience the SDE.

A majority of people have not seen a good wedding video and showing a SDE exposes hundreds of people to good wedding videography.

SDE's are not for everyone. There are good and bad things about SDE's and you are totally right. SDE's are much more stressful than Love Stories.

I would want the floor to swallow me up if people gave me a standing O at a wedding. Yes, it's supposed to move people, but I don't want the attention on me for a second. Hmm.

I'm also thinking that if I brought *two* laptops to the wedding both my wife and I could work on the footage and cut the time down.

When I first saw Jason's video I assumed that most of the footage was shot days earlier. Some shots need to be formal, IMO, but certainly not everything. I've been brainstorming for ideas of a 'date night', where I could take the couple out for the purpose of gathering clips. Some ideas: Mini golf, boating, carnival rides. Other ideas?

Finally, someone on this board uses the tag "Render as thou goist". Is it possible to render all but the wedding footage to shorten the wedding day render time? I've always waited until I'm done and rendered the full thing in Vegas 7.

I was making $1500 a wedding 4 years ago after being the biz only 2 years.

I now average just under $4K now and my SDEs are huge part of this. But they built in to my packaging and are not "extra" per se'.

I don't push them either. People want them because I have developed a reputation for them. Coordinators refer me a lot because I do them and it makes them look good too.

Its funny that you say that Mark. I have a bride posting right now on the Knot and I am following along with the conversation and basically she is asking her fellow Knotties if she should do an SDE with me.

And most of the responses from the other brides have been "no" and a few of them have expressed to her that watching the ceremony again would be "repetitive".

This is obviously the mindset of those who have not seen a good SDE done. This is why education is important. Because we both know that it is anything but redundant because like you said, we do them artistically.. It is not a mere "replay" of the ceremony.

Sometimes I am tempted to log into the Knot and say something to "educate" them but that has not always worked out very well for me in th past. ;)

I think the bride needs to see an example of one online -- that will slay any opposition.

Hi Dana,

When the occasional standing O does happen they are not looking at me as they clap. They are looking at the B&G. They were the stars of the SDE and not Trisha or I. Sure, we receive comments from some of the reception guests and more importantly, the other vendors, but far more people go to the B&G with their praise of how wonderful the viewing experience was.

We have been using two laptops for about a year now. Trisha will have the main project on our 17 incher and I will capture, slice and dice and then give her the good stuff from the 15 incher. Sometimes I have the time to pre edit quite a bit and other times just for a few minutes. Every SDE is different. They key for us in having two laptops is that if one failed, we have a backup.

As far as rendering goes, we don't render. Everything is realtime going out by firewire into our camera for the playback. This is done with Edius on a three year old laptop. The only time it is not realtime is when we need to make an mpeg when making a DVD for day of distribution to the guests.

Since you have to render with Vegas 7, I guess you could render during the ceremony, assuming you would be shooting during that time. There are also those occasional times when you need 30 seconds to take a deep breath and clear your mind. I don't know if 30 seconds is enough time to do much rendering or not. I just don't have a good concept of how long it takes to render things.

I guess I can relate to the brides who are saying "no". I mean, I'm a videographer and I've done an SDE (it turned out really well too), and I've seen other videographers do amazing SDE's also, but it's still just a recap of what happened only a few hours ago.

A love story, on the other hand, delves into a story that many (or most) of the guests haven't heard or seen. It seems to me that that would be more powerful. Not to mention it will be a more polished product than an SDE, which would actually represent the power of videography more in my opinion.

It seems like a paradox to me that your SDE's are getting standing ovations while your love story vids are not. It's possible that you're right, and that SDE's have more of an impact for whatever reason, but it doesn't seem like it should work that way. I know when I presented my SDE I got the pretty much the same reaction that I get from a slide show. Maybe it comes down to markets again, I don't know.

Hi Daniel,

Anyone that has seen a good SDE would know it is not merely a replay of the ceremony. That would be boring.

The most effective way I have found to educate Brides on the value of a SDE is for them to experience it first hand. The more we do SDE's the more in-demand they will become.

Good job on the last one I saw. I loved the shot from under the long veil. I'm not a big fan of zooms, but that zoom was amazing.

Hi Mark,

DVD distribution as well?! OMG! That's taking it to the next level.

Many questions: When you say 'capture' I'm assuming you mean from the Firestore. How do you give her the good clips? I know that Firestore gives you footage diced into mini clips, do you drag & drop through an ethernet connection? What apps do you use?

Also, you said, "...we don't render. Everything is realtime going out by firewire into our camera for the playback". Do you play it from within the NLE software after prerendering? Finally, I'm not sure why you would line out to your camera and not to the projector. I'm very curious and appreciate your help.

Thanks!

I'm going to guess that he lines out to the camera through firewire, which the projector doesn't have. If I'm right, do I get a cookie? d:-)

Hi Travis,

It depends on the crowd and the emotional content of the music, vo and editing techniques.

Some crowds are very quiet and reserved. Some are very loud and interactive.

A Love Story may have a great story, but seldom has the raw emotion that a wedding can have. When you combine an emotional person verbally committing their life and love to the person they are marrying, combined with dramatic music it is very moving. Now if the couple are just repeating what the minister says, without any emotion involved, it will not be nearly as emotional to the viewer.

On the other hand, I have seen some emotionally moving Love Stories, and I have seen some of the best, but not one that compares with the emotional impact of a SDE.