Raid or more Ram? at DVinfo.net

Glenn Gipson · August 9th, 2007, 09:21 AM

When I edited my last project I could only afford 1 gig of ram. Suffice it to say, the project became a nightmare to edit as it became more complex on the time line (naturally.) So this time around, for my next big project, I have a little bit of cash to upgrade my system. My question is, should I upgrade my Ram, or should I upgrade to a raid setup? My CPU is a Core Duo @ 2.4 ghz, by the way. Thanks.

Glenn Chan · August 9th, 2007, 11:41 AM

For big projects it can sometimes be a good practice to work in smaller chunks/chapters/scenes.

Jon McGuffin · August 9th, 2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Gipson

When I edited my last project I could only afford 1 gig of ram. Suffice it to say, the project became a nightmare to edit as it became more complex on the time line (naturally.) So this time around, for my next big project, I have a little bit of cash to upgrade my system. My question is, should I upgrade my Ram, or should I upgrade to a raid setup? My CPU is a Core Duo @ 2.4 ghz, by the way. Thanks.

Sorry to break up the "Glenn" party but I'll chime in here... :)

Where did you see performance suffer the most in your previous project? Also, what is your existing drive and is it at least a drive that is not the same as your boot/OS drive? 1Gb of RAM should be sufficient. I operate with 2Gb and find it's enough. The price of RAM right now is dirt chep and i'd consider maybe doing both. 320Gb SATA2 drives can be had for as little as $70/ea and 2Gb of RAM can be bought for $100.

Jon

Glenn Davidson · August 9th, 2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon McGuffin

Sorry to break up the "Glenn" party but I'll chime in here... :)

Jon

PARTY!!!!!!!!

Glenn Gipson · August 9th, 2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Chan

For big projects it can sometimes be a good practice to work in smaller chunks/chapters/scenes.

For the most part, I did just this. But there comes a time when you must put all the pieces together on one time line, and this is when things choke up.

Glenn Gipson · August 9th, 2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon McGuffin

Sorry to break up the "Glenn" party but I'll chime in here... :)

Where did you see performance suffer the most in your previous project? Also, what is your existing drive and is it at least a drive that is not the same as your boot/OS drive? 1Gb of RAM should be sufficient. I operate with 2Gb and find it's enough. The price of RAM right now is dirt chep and i'd consider maybe doing both. 320Gb SATA2 drives can be had for as little as $70/ea and 2Gb of RAM can be bought for $100.

Jon

This is my system:

Core Duo @ 2.4ghz
1 gig Dual Channel Ram
Three IDE drives, one main for the OS/Vegas and the other one does Audio while the third drive does video only.

By the way, the footage is HDV 1440x1080 24f (Canon) footage. The Audio is a mixture of 16 bit and 24 bit.

I just wanna put about $500 bucks into my system, and thus I was wondering if that money would be better spent on Ram or Raid.

Alastair Brown · August 9th, 2007, 03:54 PM

RAM is for pennies at the moment. Play.com are selling 1Gb of the stuff for $18 ($36) delivered!

Jon McGuffin · August 9th, 2007, 08:16 PM

Since you have $500. Why not spend $100 on good Dual Channel 2X1Gb Sticks. Put them in, pull your existing RAM out and see how it goes. Your next step might be to buy a 6850 that runs at 3Ghz or maybe a Quad Core for $290.

Glenn Chan · August 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM

In my testing, low latency RAM doesn't improve performance noticeably. You can pay a premium for RAM and get lower latency stuff (and overclock your existing RAM)... but there isn't a measurable difference.

You do see some small improvements from not crippling memory bandwidth... though this probably isn't something that is noticeable.

To not cripple memory bandwidth, use PAIRs of identical RAM.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18841

2- Another way of working is just to render out your finished segments, and then stick em into a master sequence.

Stephen Eastwood · August 9th, 2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Gipson

This is my system:

Core Duo @ 2.4ghz
1 gig Dual Channel Ram
Three IDE drives, one main for the OS/Vegas and the other one does Audio while the third drive does video only.

By the way, the footage is HDV 1440x1080 24f (Canon) footage. The Audio is a mixture of 16 bit and 24 bit.

I just wanna put about $500 bucks into my system, and thus I was wondering if that money would be better spent on Ram or Raid.

Add some ram and get gearshift to do the major editing on dv files and switch at the end of the project to render when you are done. Great thing is being able to render a final dv in a very short time to see how the whole thing plays and if you missed or need to rework anything before the long render.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Richard Iredale · August 14th, 2007, 11:37 AM

Quick test: download the freeware utility called RamPage. It installs in your System Tray and shows you how much ram is sitting unused. If you load your project and it drops to "0," then you can speed things up with more ram.

BTW I think you'll be surprised how little ram is needed for many Vegas projects. I only recently went from 1GB to 2GB of ram because I use DeShaker frequently, and on HD clips the second pass of this excellent program can soak up 400MB of ram all by itself.

I also second the motion of using GearShift. I shoot exclusively in HDV, bring in m2t clips with HDVSplit, and immediately generate proxies with GearShift. I edit with the DV proxies, and only for the final render do I GearShift back to m2t. Works great.

Stephen Eastwood · August 15th, 2007, 12:52 AM

Honestly I cannot understand how gearshift is not made mandatory and licensed by sony for every Vegas out there. Its a real speed facilitator even with a dual quad running things, no matter what its faster to do anything especially multiple layers and effects.

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Ian Stark · August 15th, 2007, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Eastwood

Honestly I cannot understand how gearshift is not made mandatory and licensed by sony for every Vegas out there.

maybe cos we aren't all working with HD? I like the idea of not having to pay for things until I need them!

Glenn Gipson · August 15th, 2007, 06:14 AM

GearShift sounds amazing. It reminds me of old school film editing where you would make a "work print/copy" of the original negative to base your cuts on. Pretty neat stuff. I wish I would have known about this for my last project, it would have saved me a hell of a lot of time.

Jon McGuffin · August 15th, 2007, 07:27 AM

I'm going to ask a dumb question...

If Gearshift creates a SD version of the .m2t file, does it maintain the same 16:9 aspect ratio of HDV source footage?

Let me get this straight... you capture via HDSplit and it creates an .m2t file (can you use the Sony Vegas video capture utility instead? Does it matter how you get the .m2t file?). Then you load gearshift and create a "DV" equivelent of your .m2t file and start editing away. When the project is all done, you say "render - but use the source .m2t file instead of the DV files"

Is that right?

Jon

August 9th, 2007, 09:21 AM	#1
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Raid or more Ram? When I edited my last project I could only afford 1 gig of ram. Suffice it to say, the project became a nightmare to edit as it became more complex on the time line (naturally.) So this time around, for my next big project, I have a little bit of cash to upgrade my system. My question is, should I upgrade my Ram, or should I upgrade to a raid setup? My CPU is a Core Duo @ 2.4 ghz, by the way. Thanks.

August 9th, 2007, 11:41 AM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	For big projects it can sometimes be a good practice to work in smaller chunks/chapters/scenes.

August 9th, 2007, 03:54 PM	#7
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	RAM is for pennies at the moment. Play.com are selling 1Gb of the stuff for $18 ($36) delivered!

August 9th, 2007, 08:16 PM	#8
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	Since you have $500. Why not spend $100 on good Dual Channel 2X1Gb Sticks. Put them in, pull your existing RAM out and see how it goes. Your next step might be to buy a 6850 that runs at 3Ghz or maybe a Quad Core for $290.

August 9th, 2007, 09:43 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	In my testing, low latency RAM doesn't improve performance noticeably. You can pay a premium for RAM and get lower latency stuff (and overclock your existing RAM)... but there isn't a measurable difference. You do see some small improvements from not crippling memory bandwidth... though this probably isn't something that is noticeable. To not cripple memory bandwidth, use PAIRs of identical RAM. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18841 2- Another way of working is just to render out your finished segments, and then stick em into a master sequence.

August 14th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#11
Richard Iredale Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 67	Quick test: download the freeware utility called RamPage. It installs in your System Tray and shows you how much ram is sitting unused. If you load your project and it drops to "0," then you can speed things up with more ram. BTW I think you'll be surprised how little ram is needed for many Vegas projects. I only recently went from 1GB to 2GB of ram because I use DeShaker frequently, and on HD clips the second pass of this excellent program can soak up 400MB of ram all by itself. I also second the motion of using GearShift. I shoot exclusively in HDV, bring in m2t clips with HDVSplit, and immediately generate proxies with GearShift. I edit with the DV proxies, and only for the final render do I GearShift back to m2t. Works great.

August 15th, 2007, 12:52 AM	#12
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	Honestly I cannot understand how gearshift is not made mandatory and licensed by sony for every Vegas out there. Its a real speed facilitator even with a dual quad running things, no matter what its faster to do anything especially multiple layers and effects. Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com

August 15th, 2007, 06:14 AM	#14
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	GearShift sounds amazing. It reminds me of old school film editing where you would make a "work print/copy" of the original negative to base your cuts on. Pretty neat stuff. I wish I would have known about this for my last project, it would have saved me a hell of a lot of time.

August 15th, 2007, 07:27 AM	#15
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	I'm going to ask a dumb question... If Gearshift creates a SD version of the .m2t file, does it maintain the same 16:9 aspect ratio of HDV source footage? Let me get this straight... you capture via HDSplit and it creates an .m2t file (can you use the Sony Vegas video capture utility instead? Does it matter how you get the .m2t file?). Then you load gearshift and create a "DV" equivelent of your .m2t file and start editing away. When the project is all done, you say "render - but use the source .m2t file instead of the DV files" Is that right? Jon