Can Vegas read timcode metadata on audio tracks? at DVinfo.net

James Binder · August 7th, 2008, 01:14 PM

Can Vegas 8 read timecode metadata imbedded in audio files? We Recently shot a feature on a Sony EX1 where we used a smart slate to send timecode info to the audio track (recorded on separate recorder).

If so -- What is the procedure in order to read timecode meta data (on audio tracks) in Vegas?

The main edit is happening within Final Cut Pro -- however, I am putting together a trailer in Vegas. Right now I am syncing audio tracks to the slate clapper (visually), which is fine -- however, I wouldn't mind being a bit more precise...

*Or* am I not understanding the timecode function within Vegas properly?

Thanks --

Chuck Pullen · August 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM

James, I have been trying to find the same answer for a while, as I use an Edirol to record in .BWF. The only answer I received was that by looking at the properties of the audio file you will see the time code in the first frame. That's not very useful for me, and you probably will find the same for you as well. Hopefully someone will come across your post and give us an answer.

Chuck

Mike Kujbida · August 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM

I'll state up front that I don't deal with BWF files. I've only read about them on various audio forums.

Both Vegas 7 & 8 are supposed to be able to read (but not write) BWF files.
There's a lot more listed but here's a bit from the online help:

You can also add Broadcast Wave Format files to your project by dragging them from the Explorer window to the timeline. However, if you drag a BWF file to the timeline, events are created where you drop the file. Using the Import Broadcast Wave dialog ensures that events are arranged according to the timestamps in the file.

I searched the Sony Vegas forum (keyword BWF) and found a few threads that indicate this is feasible.

James, please let the group know what you find out, good or not so good.
Thanks.

Chuck Pullen · August 8th, 2008, 04:51 PM

Mike thanks SO much for taking the time to look this up for us. I personally have never had an issue importing or working with the files. Mainly my issue is how to see the timecode of the file. Obviously you can’t view timecode on an audio track the way you would on a video track, so that’s where I’m stuck.

Mike Kujbida · August 8th, 2008, 05:06 PM

Chuck, step 6 of the online help says:

Choose a setting from the Positioning drop-down list to indicate where imported audio will be added to the timeline.

Setting: Use ruler time

Description:
Adds each imported file to the Vegas timeline at the exact position indicated by its timestamp. For example, if you import a BWF file with a timestamp of 00:00:30;00, the media would be added to the timeline at the thirty-second mark on the ruler.

This says to me that you'll be able to read the correct timecode on the ruler display.
Or am I mistaken?

Seth Bloombaum · August 8th, 2008, 07:09 PM

Chuck, Mike - yes, that's a good summary of a typical BWF import workflow where you used time-of-day or other common free-run timecode on all cameras & audio recorders. Then, you would read the starting timecode of your matching video clip(s), and set the cursor to that TC in the timeline, snap the video to it. Then listen for echo between the camcorder audio and the audio recorder audio and slip (numpad 4 and 6) the audio audio to remove echo. This can be done at finer precision by turning off quantize to frames (but never slip/cut video without quantize "on"!! and remember to switch it back on when sync is done).

James - As to TC on an audio track, I think you're going to need an external LTC reader hooked up to an audio output to read the code. Unlike AVID and FCP, there are no native or third-party tools to read TC on an audio track for Vegas that I've ever heard of. I seem to remember Edward Troxel writing at some point that the scripting function doesn't offer a method to connect to TC on an audio track either, so it would be up to Sony to provide a solution on this.

Chuck Pullen · August 8th, 2008, 09:25 PM

To Mike: That's a great approach that I have never though of, I see what you're getting at. So instead of seeing the timecode, it'll just get put where it belongs on the ruler. Only problem I am thinking about is that since I have to use time of day, and I shoot all day long, I may end up with a ten or twelve hour long timeline!

I guess if I was shooting something at say 10:00 A.M. I would set the timecode to start at say 09:30;00 and then import the audio files first before anything else? I can't wait to try that thanks again.

To Seth: I have Blackmagic Decklink SP card, do you think I can set up an LTC decoder to one of it's outputs?

Chuck

Seth Bloombaum · August 8th, 2008, 09:50 PM

Haven't used the BM cards - if you have a hardware TC input on it, and a sw utility to display TC... then it's certainly worth trying a soundcard output to the TC in. Then map the Vegas TC audio track to that soundcard output.

Here is a more detailed BWF sync workflow for Vegas along the lines that Mike suggested.

Chuck Pullen · August 10th, 2008, 06:45 PM

Mike and Seth, thanks so much. With your help, I have finally figured out in this major hurdle in my workflow.

You guys are the best,

Chuck

August 7th, 2008, 01:14 PM	#1
James Binder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: NY, NYC Posts: 367	Can Vegas read timcode metadata on audio tracks? Can Vegas 8 read timecode metadata imbedded in audio files? We Recently shot a feature on a Sony EX1 where we used a smart slate to send timecode info to the audio track (recorded on separate recorder). If so -- What is the procedure in order to read timecode meta data (on audio tracks) in Vegas? The main edit is happening within Final Cut Pro -- however, I am putting together a trailer in Vegas. Right now I am syncing audio tracks to the slate clapper (visually), which is fine -- however, I wouldn't mind being a bit more precise... Or am I not understanding the timecode function within Vegas properly? Thanks --

August 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM	#2
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	James, I have been trying to find the same answer for a while, as I use an Edirol to record in .BWF. The only answer I received was that by looking at the properties of the audio file you will see the time code in the first frame. That's not very useful for me, and you probably will find the same for you as well. Hopefully someone will come across your post and give us an answer. Chuck

August 7th, 2008, 08:45 PM	#3
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	I'll state up front that I don't deal with BWF files. I've only read about them on various audio forums. Both Vegas 7 & 8 are supposed to be able to read (but not write) BWF files. There's a lot more listed but here's a bit from the online help: You can also add Broadcast Wave Format files to your project by dragging them from the Explorer window to the timeline. However, if you drag a BWF file to the timeline, events are created where you drop the file. Using the Import Broadcast Wave dialog ensures that events are arranged according to the timestamps in the file. I searched the Sony Vegas forum (keyword BWF) and found a few threads that indicate this is feasible. James, please let the group know what you find out, good or not so good. Thanks.

August 8th, 2008, 04:51 PM	#4
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	Mike thanks SO much for taking the time to look this up for us. I personally have never had an issue importing or working with the files. Mainly my issue is how to see the timecode of the file. Obviously you can’t view timecode on an audio track the way you would on a video track, so that’s where I’m stuck.

August 8th, 2008, 05:06 PM	#5
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Chuck, step 6 of the online help says: Choose a setting from the Positioning drop-down list to indicate where imported audio will be added to the timeline. Setting: Use ruler time Description: Adds each imported file to the Vegas timeline at the exact position indicated by its timestamp. For example, if you import a BWF file with a timestamp of 00:00:30;00, the media would be added to the timeline at the thirty-second mark on the ruler. This says to me that you'll be able to read the correct timecode on the ruler display. Or am I mistaken?

August 8th, 2008, 07:09 PM	#6
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Chuck, Mike - yes, that's a good summary of a typical BWF import workflow where you used time-of-day or other common free-run timecode on all cameras & audio recorders. Then, you would read the starting timecode of your matching video clip(s), and set the cursor to that TC in the timeline, snap the video to it. Then listen for echo between the camcorder audio and the audio recorder audio and slip (numpad 4 and 6) the audio audio to remove echo. This can be done at finer precision by turning off quantize to frames (but never slip/cut video without quantize "on"!! and remember to switch it back on when sync is done). James - As to TC on an audio track, I think you're going to need an external LTC reader hooked up to an audio output to read the code. Unlike AVID and FCP, there are no native or third-party tools to read TC on an audio track for Vegas that I've ever heard of. I seem to remember Edward Troxel writing at some point that the scripting function doesn't offer a method to connect to TC on an audio track either, so it would be up to Sony to provide a solution on this.

August 8th, 2008, 09:25 PM	#7
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	To Mike: That's a great approach that I have never though of, I see what you're getting at. So instead of seeing the timecode, it'll just get put where it belongs on the ruler. Only problem I am thinking about is that since I have to use time of day, and I shoot all day long, I may end up with a ten or twelve hour long timeline! I guess if I was shooting something at say 10:00 A.M. I would set the timecode to start at say 09:30;00 and then import the audio files first before anything else? I can't wait to try that thanks again. To Seth: I have Blackmagic Decklink SP card, do you think I can set up an LTC decoder to one of it's outputs? Chuck

August 8th, 2008, 09:50 PM	#8
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Haven't used the BM cards - if you have a hardware TC input on it, and a sw utility to display TC... then it's certainly worth trying a soundcard output to the TC in. Then map the Vegas TC audio track to that soundcard output. Here is a more detailed BWF sync workflow for Vegas along the lines that Mike suggested.

August 10th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#9
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	Mike and Seth, thanks so much. With your help, I have finally figured out in this major hurdle in my workflow. You guys are the best, Chuck