A bit confused about Vegas HD to SD workflow at DVinfo.net

Jean-Philippe Archibald · September 3rd, 2008, 12:24 PM

Hi, I'm new to HD, just got an XLH1a a few weeks ago. I just came back from a corporate gig shot in HDV 60i and I want to find the best way to works with the footage.

The end result will be a widescreen SD DVD.

So I have two solutions, I want to find the best one for me.

First I can downconvert in camera. I tested it and I think that the result is great. Working with DV footage is familiar and the quality is on par with what I am used to with the XL2.

But, I can capture HDV, edit HDV and downconvert at the end. From what I have read, the images will be sharper and I will have the freedom to crop without any loss in quality. seems great.

I just did some tests with this workflow and found that there is a problem with the aspect ratio of me outputed SD files. I get some black bars each sides. (see attached pic)

What I have done is this: I put the HDV files on the timeline in an HDV60i project. Then I rendered a section using mpeg2 DVDA widescreen template.

What can I do to prevent this to happens?

Michael Wisniewski · September 3rd, 2008, 12:44 PM

Maybe you set the project properties to 1920x1080? The footage from the Canon HDV cams are 1440x1080.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · September 3rd, 2008, 12:45 PM

No, I am using this template: HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080; 29,970 fps)

Rob Wood · September 3rd, 2008, 01:07 PM

the attached image is 873x480... is this some variant of 864x486? ... your image size numbers seem a bit off (as the pillars suggest).

~

i'd suggest changing the Project Properties in your Vegas project to "NTSC DV Widescreen" since that's your target and work from there.

l8r
rob

Edward Troxel · September 3rd, 2008, 01:07 PM

First of all, remember that those "bars" are in the safe area that typically is not seen on a TV anyway. If you really want to get rid of them, put the HD footage on an SD timeline and then set the Pan/Crop to "Match Output Aspect" and it should zoom in slightly. During rendering you could also check the "stretch to fill frame" option.

Edward Troxel · September 3rd, 2008, 01:09 PM

873x480 is 720x480 widescreen with the pixels changed to square pixels.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · September 3rd, 2008, 01:13 PM

Edward, so you are telling me that it is normal to see those bars? I though about just using the pan and crop tool to get rid of them but was thinking I was doing something wrong.

Rob Wood · September 3rd, 2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

873x480 is 720x480 widescreen with the pixels changed to square pixels.

Wouldn't WS be 853, not 873? (480/9x16=853.3)

unsurely
rob

Edward Troxel · September 3rd, 2008, 09:24 PM

Jean, those bars can be normal. Some options were given to get rid of them if you really want. However, if you're making SD DVDs, it will probably never be seen as small as they are.

Rob, I'm just going by what the preview screen shows. If you look in the project properties, the widescreen PAR is 1.2121 so we can then do the math. 720*1.2121 = 872.7.

Jean-Philippe Archibald · September 4th, 2008, 05:44 AM

Edward,

Yes, I definitely want to get rid of them. They are not so small in my opinion. I know they are outside of the safe area but the DVD will most likelly be presented lot of times with a laptop and projector.

When I capture the donwconverted SD footage, the black bars aren't presents. I would like to end up that way. Full widescreen SD footage, no black bars.

Edward Troxel · September 4th, 2008, 06:20 AM

Then use one of the options provided.

Pan/Crop Match Aspect
Pan/Crop slightly stretch
Track Motion slightly zoom in
Render "stretch to fill frame"
etc...

Test the various options out and see what you like best.

Rob Wood · September 4th, 2008, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

If you look in the project properties, the widescreen PAR is 1.2121 so we can then do the math. 720*1.2121 = 872.7.

ah! thx. i'm always mixing up WS with 16:9 -rob

Herm Stork · September 5th, 2008, 10:31 AM

How about adding a border?

Bill Busby · September 6th, 2008, 01:14 AM

I've never ever heard of 874x480 being what's translated to a 16x9 aspect ratio from 720x480. It's usually either 853 or 854 depending on where you look :)

I always expected the extra pixels make up the black bars on the side. Take that pic into PShop or whatever, crop the pic to get rid of the black... you end up with 854x480. So I think the original poster might want to check out his settings somewhere.

September 3rd, 2008, 12:24 PM	#1
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	A bit confused about Vegas HD to SD workflow Hi, I'm new to HD, just got an XLH1a a few weeks ago. I just came back from a corporate gig shot in HDV 60i and I want to find the best way to works with the footage. The end result will be a widescreen SD DVD. So I have two solutions, I want to find the best one for me. First I can downconvert in camera. I tested it and I think that the result is great. Working with DV footage is familiar and the quality is on par with what I am used to with the XL2. But, I can capture HDV, edit HDV and downconvert at the end. From what I have read, the images will be sharper and I will have the freedom to crop without any loss in quality. seems great. I just did some tests with this workflow and found that there is a problem with the aspect ratio of me outputed SD files. I get some black bars each sides. (see attached pic) What I have done is this: I put the HDV files on the timeline in an HDV60i project. Then I rendered a section using mpeg2 DVDA widescreen template. What can I do to prevent this to happens? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

September 3rd, 2008, 12:44 PM	#2
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Maybe you set the project properties to 1920x1080? The footage from the Canon HDV cams are 1440x1080. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

September 3rd, 2008, 12:45 PM	#3
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	No, I am using this template: HDV 1080-60i (1440x1080; 29,970 fps) __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

September 3rd, 2008, 01:07 PM	#5
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	First of all, remember that those "bars" are in the safe area that typically is not seen on a TV anyway. If you really want to get rid of them, put the HD footage on an SD timeline and then set the Pan/Crop to "Match Output Aspect" and it should zoom in slightly. During rendering you could also check the "stretch to fill frame" option. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 3rd, 2008, 01:09 PM	#6
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	873x480 is 720x480 widescreen with the pixels changed to square pixels. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 3rd, 2008, 01:07 PM	#4
Rob Wood Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 146	the attached image is 873x480... is this some variant of 864x486? ... your image size numbers seem a bit off (as the pillars suggest). ~ i'd suggest changing the Project Properties in your Vegas project to "NTSC DV Widescreen" since that's your target and work from there. l8r rob

September 3rd, 2008, 01:13 PM	#7
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Edward, so you are telling me that it is normal to see those bars? I though about just using the pan and crop tool to get rid of them but was thinking I was doing something wrong. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

September 3rd, 2008, 09:24 PM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Jean, those bars can be normal. Some options were given to get rid of them if you really want. However, if you're making SD DVDs, it will probably never be seen as small as they are. Rob, I'm just going by what the preview screen shows. If you look in the project properties, the widescreen PAR is 1.2121 so we can then do the math. 720*1.2121 = 872.7. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 4th, 2008, 05:44 AM	#10
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	Edward, Yes, I definitely want to get rid of them. They are not so small in my opinion. I know they are outside of the safe area but the DVD will most likelly be presented lot of times with a laptop and projector. When I capture the donwconverted SD footage, the black bars aren't presents. I would like to end up that way. Full widescreen SD footage, no black bars. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

September 4th, 2008, 06:20 AM	#11
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Then use one of the options provided. Pan/Crop Match Aspect Pan/Crop slightly stretch Track Motion slightly zoom in Render "stretch to fill frame" etc... Test the various options out and see what you like best. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 5th, 2008, 10:31 AM	#13
Herm Stork Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Erie, PA Posts: 121	How about adding a border?

September 6th, 2008, 01:14 AM	#14
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	I've never ever heard of 874x480 being what's translated to a 16x9 aspect ratio from 720x480. It's usually either 853 or 854 depending on where you look :) I always expected the extra pixels make up the black bars on the side. Take that pic into PShop or whatever, crop the pic to get rid of the black... you end up with 854x480. So I think the original poster might want to check out his settings somewhere.