Help: DVX100a footage cropped on TV at DVinfo.net

Allen Nash · May 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM

I shoot in letterbox mode in my AG-DVX100a and then capture it using Vegas. The dimensions are 720 x 480. When I render, I'm now saving to a mpg2 format for SVCD, which outputs a file with 480 x 480 resolution. On a TV, this SVCD footage gets cropped on the left and right sides. What am i doing wrong? I want the rendered file to play on my TV like a 16x9 widescreen DVD and show all the image, not crop any of it.

By crop i mean the image itself extends further than what shows on the TV. Any help appreciated

Mike Moncrief · May 5th, 2004, 08:18 PM

Hello,

Well I am not familiar with shooting with your camera.. But it sounds to me that when you are rendering to the SVCD format you say it crops it to 480 x 480.. If you crop a 720X480 image to 480X480 then you will be cropping it on the left and right sides, while maintaining the correct vertical size(480)..Its pretty simple math..If you change the horizontal size, while not changing the verticla size.. then you are losing 240 lines of info horizontally..

Mike

Allen Nash · May 5th, 2004, 09:42 PM

the 480x480 conversion actually scales, instead of crops. Every part of the image is represented. Let's say on my computer monitor I open up the rendered mpeg. Horizontally I see this

123456789
(the full horizontal image)

after burning to a CD-R, and playing on a TV, i'll see

2345678

meaning that some off the left and right isn't appearing. Anyone know what's wrong?

John Cline · May 5th, 2004, 09:50 PM

Yes, it's called "overscan" and all televisions do it. That's what the "Safe Action" and "Safe Title" areas are all about.

John

Magnus Helander · May 5th, 2004, 11:37 PM

In vegas preview window you will find a small hashmark-button.
Clicking it will show you "safe zone" (outer) and "title safe" (inner) marks..

/magnus

Allen Nash · May 6th, 2004, 12:53 AM

some questions, then:

1) Do most TV's overscan by the same amount, and is anything inside the safe zone considered safe for all (or most) TV's?

2) What's the best way to resize my image to fit in the safe zone? Right now I'm scaling the footage in Track Motion. Is there a better alternative?

Steve Crisdale · May 6th, 2004, 07:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Allen Nash : some questions, then:

1) Do most TV's overscan by the same amount, and is anything inside the safe zone considered safe for all (or most) TV's?

2) What's the best way to resize my image to fit in the safe zone? Right now I'm scaling the footage in Track Motion. Is there a better alternative? -->>>

Why not just edit your footage without any track motion resizing (unless you specifically want a rotate-zoom or slide for effect) and just use the "Render As" command > select 'Mainconcept MPEG2' > then select SVCD NTSC or SVCD PAL as the 'template'> then click custom settings button > in the customs setting dialogue, click the "Video" tab > under 'Aspect Ration' select 16:9 display......You can now render out the file, or if you're feeling game you could see what's available under the other tabs....allow field based motion compensation might be worthwhile if you feel there might be heaps of action/abrupt scene changes....

The rendered file can then be written to CD in any SVCD renderer of your choice. Personally I prefer Nero's SVCD renderer for this but that's just me!!!

Edward Troxel · May 6th, 2004, 07:14 AM

Quote:

1) Do most TV's overscan by the same amount, and is anything inside the safe zone considered safe for all (or most) TV's?

All TV's are slightly different. Older TVs will, generally, have a larger overscan area than newer TV's.

Turn on the "safe zone" overlay in the preview window (button looks like #) This will put two new border lines on the screen. The inner line indicates the text safe zone. All text should remain inside this area. The outer line indicates the action safe zone.

Quote:

2) What's the best way to resize my image to fit in the safe zone? Right now I'm scaling the footage in Track Motion. Is there a better alternative?

For video, shoot with the safe zones in mind. For images, adjust using Pan/Crop and keep the safe zones in mind. If you want to adjust an entire track smaller then Track Motion is a viable method.

Allen Nash · May 6th, 2004, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Why not just edit your footage without any track motion resizing (unless you specifically want a rotate-zoom or slide for effect) and just use the "Render As" command > select 'Mainconcept MPEG2' > then select SVCD NTSC or SVCD PAL as the 'template'> then click custom settings button > in the customs setting dialogue, click the "Video" tab > under 'Aspect Ration' select 16:9 display......You can now render out the file, or if you're feeling game you could see what's available under the other tabs....allow field based motion compensation might be worthwhile if you feel there might be heaps of action/abrupt scene changes....

The rendered file can then be written to CD in any SVCD renderer of your choice. Personally I prefer Nero's SVCD renderer for this but that's just me!!!

I also use Nero's SVCD renderer. One thing, though: When I click "custom" nothing happens. I had assumed that there were no custom settings for mpg2.

Steve Crisdale · May 7th, 2004, 08:28 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Allen Nash : I also use Nero's SVCD renderer. One thing, though: When I click "custom" nothing happens. I had assumed that there were no custom settings for mpg2. -->>>

I assume you're referring to Vegas 4's 'Custom' file format options button (under the 'Render As' command.....). Vegas is where you need to render the Mainconcept MPEG2 file.
I hope I didn't imply that Nero has the options available for optimizing MPEG2 output... As you mentioned that you capture your DV directly into Vegas, I figured that the simplest approach would be to edit/finalise & output everything via Vegas (but without the need to crop or track motion your footage to get the proper 16:9 aspect).

All you need to do with Nero is select SVCD as the CD type....A new window will be created with a 'Video_TS' & 'Audio _TS' folder in the left pane - and your file tree (for selecting the MPG file created in Vegas 4 that you wish to write) in the right hand pane.

Drag & drop the *.mpg file written in Vegas 4 to the 'Video_TS' folder...No re-rendering of the file is necessary or asked for by Nero..... and then BURN!!!!!..... before serving up in any SVCD compatible DVD player.

Allen Nash · May 7th, 2004, 02:23 PM

Yeah I meant the "Custom..." button in Vegas 4.0e after clicking "Render As" and selecting mpg2. When I click it, nothing happens, just like nothing will happen for other formats that have no options to customize. I wonder what's up with it....

What version is your mpg2 plug-in

Edward Troxel · May 7th, 2004, 03:09 PM

Yes, the custom button works. This is a known issue with some installations. Here are some old instructions to fix this problem:

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic Foundry\MC MPEG Plug-In\1.0\License]
"key1"="" <--------- !!!!!REMOVE THIS KEY!!!!!!!
"CurrentKey"="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"
"InstFlags"=dword:00000010
"AppGrade"="0x0010"

I'm sure you'll now need to change "Sonic Foundry" with "Sony Media Software"

Allen Nash · May 7th, 2004, 05:54 PM

excellent, thanks Edward!!

May 5th, 2004, 08:05 PM	#1
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	Help: DVX100a footage cropped on TV I shoot in letterbox mode in my AG-DVX100a and then capture it using Vegas. The dimensions are 720 x 480. When I render, I'm now saving to a mpg2 format for SVCD, which outputs a file with 480 x 480 resolution. On a TV, this SVCD footage gets cropped on the left and right sides. What am i doing wrong? I want the rendered file to play on my TV like a 16x9 widescreen DVD and show all the image, not crop any of it. By crop i mean the image itself extends further than what shows on the TV. Any help appreciated

May 5th, 2004, 08:18 PM	#2
Mike Moncrief Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: orlando florida Posts: 426	Hello, Well I am not familiar with shooting with your camera.. But it sounds to me that when you are rendering to the SVCD format you say it crops it to 480 x 480.. If you crop a 720X480 image to 480X480 then you will be cropping it on the left and right sides, while maintaining the correct vertical size(480)..Its pretty simple math..If you change the horizontal size, while not changing the verticla size.. then you are losing 240 lines of info horizontally.. Mike __________________ Mike Moncrief mikemoncrief@gmail.com www.themikemoncrief.com

May 5th, 2004, 11:37 PM	#5
Magnus Helander Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 221	Hash mark In vegas preview window you will find a small hashmark-button. Clicking it will show you "safe zone" (outer) and "title safe" (inner) marks.. /magnus __________________ Magnus Helander, Crossmediageek on G+

May 5th, 2004, 09:42 PM	#3
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	the 480x480 conversion actually scales, instead of crops. Every part of the image is represented. Let's say on my computer monitor I open up the rendered mpeg. Horizontally I see this 123456789 (the full horizontal image) after burning to a CD-R, and playing on a TV, i'll see 2345678 meaning that some off the left and right isn't appearing. Anyone know what's wrong?

May 5th, 2004, 09:50 PM	#4
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Yes, it's called "overscan" and all televisions do it. That's what the "Safe Action" and "Safe Title" areas are all about. John

May 6th, 2004, 12:53 AM	#6
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	some questions, then: 1) Do most TV's overscan by the same amount, and is anything inside the safe zone considered safe for all (or most) TV's? 2) What's the best way to resize my image to fit in the safe zone? Right now I'm scaling the footage in Track Motion. Is there a better alternative?

May 6th, 2004, 07:11 AM	#7
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Allen Nash : some questions, then: 1) Do most TV's overscan by the same amount, and is anything inside the safe zone considered safe for all (or most) TV's? 2) What's the best way to resize my image to fit in the safe zone? Right now I'm scaling the footage in Track Motion. Is there a better alternative? -->>> Why not just edit your footage without any track motion resizing (unless you specifically want a rotate-zoom or slide for effect) and just use the "Render As" command > select 'Mainconcept MPEG2' > then select SVCD NTSC or SVCD PAL as the 'template'> then click custom settings button > in the customs setting dialogue, click the "Video" tab > under 'Aspect Ration' select 16:9 display......You can now render out the file, or if you're feeling game you could see what's available under the other tabs....allow field based motion compensation might be worthwhile if you feel there might be heaps of action/abrupt scene changes.... The rendered file can then be written to CD in any SVCD renderer of your choice. Personally I prefer Nero's SVCD renderer for this but that's just me!!!

May 7th, 2004, 08:28 AM	#10
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Allen Nash : I also use Nero's SVCD renderer. One thing, though: When I click "custom" nothing happens. I had assumed that there were no custom settings for mpg2. -->>> I assume you're referring to Vegas 4's 'Custom' file format options button (under the 'Render As' command.....). Vegas is where you need to render the Mainconcept MPEG2 file. I hope I didn't imply that Nero has the options available for optimizing MPEG2 output... As you mentioned that you capture your DV directly into Vegas, I figured that the simplest approach would be to edit/finalise & output everything via Vegas (but without the need to crop or track motion your footage to get the proper 16:9 aspect). All you need to do with Nero is select SVCD as the CD type....A new window will be created with a 'Video_TS' & 'Audio _TS' folder in the left pane - and your file tree (for selecting the MPG file created in Vegas 4 that you wish to write) in the right hand pane. Drag & drop the *.mpg file written in Vegas 4 to the 'Video_TS' folder...No re-rendering of the file is necessary or asked for by Nero..... and then BURN!!!!!..... before serving up in any SVCD compatible DVD player.

May 7th, 2004, 02:23 PM	#11
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	Yeah I meant the "Custom..." button in Vegas 4.0e after clicking "Render As" and selecting mpg2. When I click it, nothing happens, just like nothing will happen for other formats that have no options to customize. I wonder what's up with it.... What version is your mpg2 plug-in

May 7th, 2004, 03:09 PM	#12
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes, the custom button works. This is a known issue with some installations. Here are some old instructions to fix this problem: [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Sonic Foundry\MC MPEG Plug-In\1.0\License] "key1"="" <--------- !!!!!REMOVE THIS KEY!!!!!!! "CurrentKey"="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX" "InstFlags"=dword:00000010 "AppGrade"="0x0010" I'm sure you'll now need to change "Sonic Foundry" with "Sony Media Software"

May 7th, 2004, 05:54 PM	#13
Allen Nash Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: S.F., California Posts: 61	excellent, thanks Edward!!