Uncompressed AVI vs NTSC DV at DVinfo.net

Oliver Darden · September 15th, 2009, 11:25 PM

I am rendering a 71 min video project (SD / 720x480 / NTSC / DV / 4:3) to send off to a DVD printing company for like 1,000 copies, glass mastered, etc, etc.

They asked for an uncompressed AVI but Vegas crashes because it says I don't have enough HD space on a 300GB drive. It seems that rendering as uncompressed AVI is HUGE and actually makes the rendered video a lot larger than even the original raw dv footage recorded.

My question is, can I just render out as NTSC DV and get the same quality and why doesn't it just say "No Compression Required"?

I'm sure the place uses their own compression or I would just render them MPEG2 and AC3 files.

Any thoughts?

Chris Harding · September 16th, 2009, 01:05 AM

Hi Oliver

You can get the Lagarith codec online as a freebie and just install it and then when you render choose AVI and on the dropdown look for the Lagarith codec. It's lossless and takes up less space than uncompressed but the files will still be pretty big!!!!

Being lossless you will have the same quality as an uncompressed AVI

Chris

Oliver Darden · September 16th, 2009, 01:27 AM

Chris I installed the codec but I dont see it anywhere in the drop down box. No option for Lagarith under avi.

I went to control panel, sounds and audio devices - hardware - video codecs and it says it's installed and working properly so I dunno.

Oliver Darden · September 16th, 2009, 03:57 AM

FOUND IT!

Was in custom...

thanks

Oliver Darden · September 16th, 2009, 04:42 AM

Seems to work well Chris, thank you.

Does everyone else agree that the Lagarith codec would be my best bet? Would buying a 1TB drive and rendering it as uncompressed be worth it?

I would love a few more comments on this before I send the DVD off, its weird just taking 1 persons word for it as I've never heard of the codec before! lol

Perrone Ford · September 16th, 2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver Darden

Seems to work well Chris, thank you.

Does everyone else agree that the Lagarith codec would be my best bet? Would buying a 1TB drive and rendering it as uncompressed be worth it?

I would love a few more comments on this before I send the DVD off, its weird just taking 1 persons word for it as I've never heard of the codec before! lol

If they asked for uncompressed, that's what they want. Not that anything is wrong with Lagarith, but they may not have it or want to install it. Which means they wouldn't be able to read your video. I use Lagarith a LOT and like it. But it is by no means universal.

As to why uncompressed is so much larger, Raw DV is 25Mbps. Uncompressed DV is going to be in the neighborhood of 300Mbps. Totally different game. And they don't want you to send them an Mpeg2, because they undoubtedly have FAR better compressors than you do.

If you want them to do the their job properly, and not charge you extra conversion fees, then send them what they asked for in the manner they specified.

Edward Troxel · September 16th, 2009, 06:39 AM

Also, if the source was DV, you could simply send them DV with NO loss in quality anyway.

Mike Kujbida · September 16th, 2009, 07:38 AM

I'm with Edward on this.
Sending them an uncompressed AVI serves no useful purpose that I can imagine.
I've sent DVDs out for duplication (qty. of 500 - no glass master needed) before and all I've ever been asked for is a master DVD.
I burn it at 4X max on a Taiyo-Yuden disc and they're happy with it.

Oliver Darden · September 17th, 2009, 02:19 AM

I went ahead and got a 1TB drive and rendered them an uncompressed AVI, but I also rendered a Lagarith version for myself to see what it looks like because it's A LOT smaller (40GBs vs over 100Gbs). The problem is, I cant seem to be able to open the Lagarith file with anything (VLC, Quicktime, etc); how do I look at this footage? Do I have to 1st uncompressed it somehow?

Sorry for my ignorance, this is my 1st time messing with this sort of codec / compression.

Edward Troxel · September 17th, 2009, 07:18 AM

Render a DV version and check it too.......

William LiPera · September 17th, 2009, 10:36 AM

I had the same problem and could not view it so then I configured the Lagarith in the RGBA mode and it worked great. Don't know why but the default RBG can't be viewed after rendering.

Oliver Darden · September 18th, 2009, 01:48 AM

ya, Edward, the DV render works fine and everything else, the only thing that wont play is that Lagarith version....werid.

I will mess with the RGB settings William, what exactly do you change?

William LiPera · September 18th, 2009, 05:29 AM

Go to custom and after you choose Lagarith click on configure and choose RBGA. Bill

Jim Snow · September 18th, 2009, 10:59 AM

There is something missing with the OP's question. Will the service company be authoring the DVD? There isn't any other reason that they would be asking asking for uncompressed AVI files. It isn't possible to send them an authored DVD in a lossless format.

Oliver Darden · September 18th, 2009, 04:02 PM

Ya, they are doing all the authoring and compressing the uncompressed AVI using FCP and compressor so I assume it will be better quality than my MPEG2.

Well see..

The DVD's are D9, and it's weird they way they do it; they like split the film in 2 and do 2 glass masters, and then put them back together on the dual layer DVD in a black spot (full fade to back) in the film so you cant tell. This is probably normal but this is my 1st time getting a mass amount copies of a DVDs made so it's all new to me.

I'm actually just glad that Vegas didnt crash while rendering the uncompressed AVI, I really think I'm making the change to FCP on my next project as I have had a lot of issues with Vegas.

September 15th, 2009, 11:25 PM	#1
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Uncompressed AVI vs NTSC DV I am rendering a 71 min video project (SD / 720x480 / NTSC / DV / 4:3) to send off to a DVD printing company for like 1,000 copies, glass mastered, etc, etc. They asked for an uncompressed AVI but Vegas crashes because it says I don't have enough HD space on a 300GB drive. It seems that rendering as uncompressed AVI is HUGE and actually makes the rendered video a lot larger than even the original raw dv footage recorded. My question is, can I just render out as NTSC DV and get the same quality and why doesn't it just say "No Compression Required"? I'm sure the place uses their own compression or I would just render them MPEG2 and AC3 files. Any thoughts?

September 16th, 2009, 06:39 AM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Also, if the source was DV, you could simply send them DV with NO loss in quality anyway. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 17th, 2009, 07:18 AM	#10
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Render a DV version and check it too....... __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

September 16th, 2009, 01:05 AM	#2
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Hi Oliver You can get the Lagarith codec online as a freebie and just install it and then when you render choose AVI and on the dropdown look for the Lagarith codec. It's lossless and takes up less space than uncompressed but the files will still be pretty big!!!! Being lossless you will have the same quality as an uncompressed AVI Chris

September 16th, 2009, 01:27 AM	#3
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Chris I installed the codec but I dont see it anywhere in the drop down box. No option for Lagarith under avi. I went to control panel, sounds and audio devices - hardware - video codecs and it says it's installed and working properly so I dunno.

September 16th, 2009, 03:57 AM	#4
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	FOUND IT! Was in custom... thanks

September 16th, 2009, 04:42 AM	#5
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Seems to work well Chris, thank you. Does everyone else agree that the Lagarith codec would be my best bet? Would buying a 1TB drive and rendering it as uncompressed be worth it? I would love a few more comments on this before I send the DVD off, its weird just taking 1 persons word for it as I've never heard of the codec before! lol

September 16th, 2009, 07:38 AM	#8
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	I'm with Edward on this. Sending them an uncompressed AVI serves no useful purpose that I can imagine. I've sent DVDs out for duplication (qty. of 500 - no glass master needed) before and all I've ever been asked for is a master DVD. I burn it at 4X max on a Taiyo-Yuden disc and they're happy with it.

September 17th, 2009, 02:19 AM	#9
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	I went ahead and got a 1TB drive and rendered them an uncompressed AVI, but I also rendered a Lagarith version for myself to see what it looks like because it's A LOT smaller (40GBs vs over 100Gbs). The problem is, I cant seem to be able to open the Lagarith file with anything (VLC, Quicktime, etc); how do I look at this footage? Do I have to 1st uncompressed it somehow? Sorry for my ignorance, this is my 1st time messing with this sort of codec / compression.

September 17th, 2009, 10:36 AM	#11
William LiPera Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 83	I had the same problem and could not view it so then I configured the Lagarith in the RGBA mode and it worked great. Don't know why but the default RBG can't be viewed after rendering.

September 18th, 2009, 01:48 AM	#12
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	ya, Edward, the DV render works fine and everything else, the only thing that wont play is that Lagarith version....werid. I will mess with the RGB settings William, what exactly do you change?

September 18th, 2009, 05:29 AM	#13
William LiPera Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 83	Go to custom and after you choose Lagarith click on configure and choose RBGA. Bill

September 18th, 2009, 10:59 AM	#14
Jim Snow Trustee Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Santa Clara, CA Posts: 1,104	There is something missing with the OP's question. Will the service company be authoring the DVD? There isn't any other reason that they would be asking asking for uncompressed AVI files. It isn't possible to send them an authored DVD in a lossless format.

September 18th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#15
Oliver Darden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: USA Posts: 522	Ya, they are doing all the authoring and compressing the uncompressed AVI using FCP and compressor so I assume it will be better quality than my MPEG2. Well see.. The DVD's are D9, and it's weird they way they do it; they like split the film in 2 and do 2 glass masters, and then put them back together on the dual layer DVD in a black spot (full fade to back) in the film so you cant tell. This is probably normal but this is my 1st time getting a mass amount copies of a DVDs made so it's all new to me. I'm actually just glad that Vegas didnt crash while rendering the uncompressed AVI, I really think I'm making the change to FCP on my next project as I have had a lot of issues with Vegas.