Supersampling to Smooth 24p? at DVinfo.net

DJ Kinney · June 13th, 2005, 11:45 AM

The Vegas manual says that supersampling will have little or no effect on video, especially fast moving video, but a little effect is all it would need...

Would a supersampling envelope smooth out the jerkiness of a 60i -> 24p dv render? That is, a render with "disable resample" set on the clip itself, exibits a notable jerkiness where the frames are replicated on playback. Enabling the resample seems to create an undesirable blurring effect. But what would happen with a supersampling envelope?

I have tried it, and it appears to look better than just a plain 24p pulldown, but maybe it's my eyes. I'd like to have a technical opinion. And would it be best to apply it before or after the pulldown render?

Render times become astronomical, but to my eye, the much better 24p effect might be worth it.

Thanks,

DJ

Edward Troxel · June 13th, 2005, 11:55 AM

For the record, what version of Vegas are you using?

DJ Kinney · June 13th, 2005, 11:56 AM

That would be Vegas 6b.

Rob Lohman · June 14th, 2005, 03:16 AM

Laurence thinks that the 60i -> 24p is really good in Vegas 6:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43841

Peter Jefferson · June 14th, 2005, 07:17 AM

Mike Crashes deinterlacer is MUCH better however..

DJ Kinney · June 14th, 2005, 09:19 AM

Yes, it's good. It isn't faultless. I guess my question was, should this supersampling proceedure make any difference, technicallyspeaking, and could someone try it and tell me?

DJ Kinney · June 16th, 2005, 10:46 AM

Anyone tried it?

Rob Lohman · June 17th, 2005, 02:33 AM

Why not try it yourself?

DJ Kinney · June 18th, 2005, 12:04 AM

Hey Rob,

Thanks, as usual, for the quick-witted and smart response. Indeed, if you will read the first post, you will see that I have specifically stated that I have tried it and am seeking additional opinions. My eyes just aren't very good, you see.

Rob Lohman · June 19th, 2005, 04:20 AM

Mine are neither since I missed that line of yours :) Sorry about that. I have
to balance my time carefully by trying to move threads along and reading /
helping. Oh well.

Hopefully someone with better eyes has some time to test this.

Laurence Kingston · June 24th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Supersampling mainly is useful for generated media like titles or still picture animations. Theoretically it should be useful for cases where the frame rate is dropped in that the extra frames could be combined with motion blur to mimick the effect of a longer exposure time. I experimented with this quite a bit with Vegas 6 to see if I could improve upon it's already excellent 60i to 24p conversion. None of my experiments looked any good however and I gave up on the idea. I made posts on the Sony Vegas forum as I was experimenting with this and Douglas Spotted Eagle responded that he had already tried the same thing and not found it to be of any use either.

June 13th, 2005, 11:45 AM	#1
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Supersampling to Smooth 24p? The Vegas manual says that supersampling will have little or no effect on video, especially fast moving video, but a little effect is all it would need... Would a supersampling envelope smooth out the jerkiness of a 60i -> 24p dv render? That is, a render with "disable resample" set on the clip itself, exibits a notable jerkiness where the frames are replicated on playback. Enabling the resample seems to create an undesirable blurring effect. But what would happen with a supersampling envelope? I have tried it, and it appears to look better than just a plain 24p pulldown, but maybe it's my eyes. I'd like to have a technical opinion. And would it be best to apply it before or after the pulldown render? Render times become astronomical, but to my eye, the much better 24p effect might be worth it. Thanks, DJ

June 13th, 2005, 11:55 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	For the record, what version of Vegas are you using? __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

June 14th, 2005, 03:16 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Laurence thinks that the 60i -> 24p is really good in Vegas 6: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=43841 __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 17th, 2005, 02:33 AM	#8
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Why not try it yourself? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 19th, 2005, 04:20 AM	#10
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Mine are neither since I missed that line of yours :) Sorry about that. I have to balance my time carefully by trying to move threads along and reading / helping. Oh well. Hopefully someone with better eyes has some time to test this. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 13th, 2005, 11:56 AM	#3
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	That would be Vegas 6b.

June 14th, 2005, 07:17 AM	#5
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Mike Crashes deinterlacer is MUCH better however..

June 14th, 2005, 09:19 AM	#6
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Yes, it's good. It isn't faultless. I guess my question was, should this supersampling proceedure make any difference, technicallyspeaking, and could someone try it and tell me?

June 16th, 2005, 10:46 AM	#7
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Anyone tried it?

June 18th, 2005, 12:04 AM	#9
DJ Kinney Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 277	Hey Rob, Thanks, as usual, for the quick-witted and smart response. Indeed, if you will read the first post, you will see that I have specifically stated that I have tried it and am seeking additional opinions. My eyes just aren't very good, you see.

June 24th, 2005, 10:27 PM	#11
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Supersampling mainly is useful for generated media like titles or still picture animations. Theoretically it should be useful for cases where the frame rate is dropped in that the extra frames could be combined with motion blur to mimick the effect of a longer exposure time. I experimented with this quite a bit with Vegas 6 to see if I could improve upon it's already excellent 60i to 24p conversion. None of my experiments looked any good however and I gave up on the idea. I made posts on the Sony Vegas forum as I was experimenting with this and Douglas Spotted Eagle responded that he had already tried the same thing and not found it to be of any use either.