Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 at DVinfo.net

Richard Green · July 31st, 2011, 04:54 AM

Hi,
Although I now have a reasonable workflow to get 1080i 50 PAL down to SD for burning to DVD, I can't help wondering why vegas can't do it without having to go through third party software. So had a play with architect and found that architect will read and burn to dvd my 1080i mts files directly and the results are exceptional! (in my opinion) smooth motion and sharp. I then decided to rename the vob file that architect created to mpeg and loaded into vegas into a default 720x 576 pal widescreen project did a few edits and rendered out to default mpeg2 pal widescreen, (it only had to re compress any dissolves etc) and back into architect for dvd burn and perfect results. If architect can resize my interlaced 1080 files why can't vegas do this directly without the back and forth. Wonder if there's a way to get architect to process all my clips in this way.

Comments please!
Richard Green

Seth Bloombaum · July 31st, 2011, 03:34 PM

Vegas version?

Sorry, I've followed the various avisynth, handbrake and other 3rd party sw discussions with interest, but never had the need to do my own benchmarking.

Several forum contributors have posted that with the release of Pro 10, they no longer resort to 3rd party for downscaling to SD.

As for the "why", my understanding is that it has to do with the quality of deinterlacing prior to rescaling (deinterlacing has historically been a little weak in vegas), then, some perceived superiority of the Lancoz algorithm for rescaling, (over Vegas native bicubic), finally the re-interlace quality.

What is it that DVD arch. 5 is doing better? Probably the deinterlace, but I don't know for sure. There's a lot of ways to get deinterlace wrong, and many settings in Vegas that are confusing regarding deinterlace.

I deinterlace with Mike Crash's excellent filter...

Richard Green · July 31st, 2011, 04:19 PM

Hi Seth,
Thanks for comments.
I'm using Vegas 10e for your info.
Avisynth is part of my reluctant work flow. Reluctant because of all the steps and settings required purely to convert my hd footage to a usable sd dvd, I just can't understand why DVD Architect can convert a raw hd interlaced file using it's default settings which vegas can't match.
I also would like to know what architect is doing and was hoping someone might be able to tell me.

Thanks for taking the time!

Richard

John Cline · August 1st, 2011, 02:26 AM

When going from interlaced HD to interlaced SD, Vegas does a great job. Just make sure you have a deinterlace method chosen in your project's properties. (I have mine set to "interpolate" permanently.) When resizing, Vegas simply splits the interlaced frames into fields, resizes the fields individually and then reinterlaces them back into interlaced frames. This is exactly the way it should be done. Besides, Vegas isn't actually deinterlacing anything and in this case it really doesn't matter if you select "blend" or "interpolate." I just leave mine set to "interpolate" because when I am going from interlaced to progressive output, interpolate works much better for video with a lot of motion.

Make sure that you set the rendering quality to "best" so that it uses the bicubic scaling algorithm.

Another thing to be aware, HD cameras don't apply nearly as much sharpening to the image as an SD camera does. Because of this, when rescaling HD to SD, it might end up looking a little soft, just apply a little bit of the sharpening filter. Regardless, there is really no reason to use third-party software for converting from HD to SD.

Phil Lee · August 1st, 2011, 01:48 PM

Hi

Unfortunately I found Vegas terrible at producing SD, which is in line with most NLEs. The better the quality and resolution of the starting footage the worse the final SD output unless you do extra work to remove detail.

DVD Architect seems to do a better job on it's own, this seems to be because it doesn't have any built in resizing tools and is off-loading the resizing to the MainConcept SDK, this does a clean job but does get rid of a lot of detail due to applying lots of filters to hide/remove interlacing artefacts. DVD Architect doesn't give any access to quality settings from what I can see and the output on very complex scenes degrades too easily. Also the field order gets reversed.

I use an AVISynth script that does a pretty good and suits a variety of footage.

Regards

Phil

July 31st, 2011, 04:54 AM	#1
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 Hi, Although I now have a reasonable workflow to get 1080i 50 PAL down to SD for burning to DVD, I can't help wondering why vegas can't do it without having to go through third party software. So had a play with architect and found that architect will read and burn to dvd my 1080i mts files directly and the results are exceptional! (in my opinion) smooth motion and sharp. I then decided to rename the vob file that architect created to mpeg and loaded into vegas into a default 720x 576 pal widescreen project did a few edits and rendered out to default mpeg2 pal widescreen, (it only had to re compress any dissolves etc) and back into architect for dvd burn and perfect results. If architect can resize my interlaced 1080 files why can't vegas do this directly without the back and forth. Wonder if there's a way to get architect to process all my clips in this way. Comments please! Richard Green Last edited by Richard Green; July 31st, 2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: spelling

July 31st, 2011, 03:34 PM	#2
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 Vegas version? Sorry, I've followed the various avisynth, handbrake and other 3rd party sw discussions with interest, but never had the need to do my own benchmarking. Several forum contributors have posted that with the release of Pro 10, they no longer resort to 3rd party for downscaling to SD. As for the "why", my understanding is that it has to do with the quality of deinterlacing prior to rescaling (deinterlacing has historically been a little weak in vegas), then, some perceived superiority of the Lancoz algorithm for rescaling, (over Vegas native bicubic), finally the re-interlace quality. What is it that DVD arch. 5 is doing better? Probably the deinterlace, but I don't know for sure. There's a lot of ways to get deinterlace wrong, and many settings in Vegas that are confusing regarding deinterlace. I deinterlace with Mike Crash's excellent filter... __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

July 31st, 2011, 04:19 PM	#3
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 Hi Seth, Thanks for comments. I'm using Vegas 10e for your info. Avisynth is part of my reluctant work flow. Reluctant because of all the steps and settings required purely to convert my hd footage to a usable sd dvd, I just can't understand why DVD Architect can convert a raw hd interlaced file using it's default settings which vegas can't match. I also would like to know what architect is doing and was hoping someone might be able to tell me. Thanks for taking the time! Richard

August 1st, 2011, 02:26 AM	#4
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Re: Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 When going from interlaced HD to interlaced SD, Vegas does a great job. Just make sure you have a deinterlace method chosen in your project's properties. (I have mine set to "interpolate" permanently.) When resizing, Vegas simply splits the interlaced frames into fields, resizes the fields individually and then reinterlaces them back into interlaced frames. This is exactly the way it should be done. Besides, Vegas isn't actually deinterlacing anything and in this case it really doesn't matter if you select "blend" or "interpolate." I just leave mine set to "interpolate" because when I am going from interlaced to progressive output, interpolate works much better for video with a lot of motion. Make sure that you set the rendering quality to "best" so that it uses the bicubic scaling algorithm. Another thing to be aware, HD cameras don't apply nearly as much sharpening to the image as an SD camera does. Because of this, when rescaling HD to SD, it might end up looking a little soft, just apply a little bit of the sharpening filter. Regardless, there is really no reason to use third-party software for converting from HD to SD.

August 1st, 2011, 01:48 PM	#5
Phil Lee Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 302	Re: Anyone tried this with DVD Architect 5 Hi Unfortunately I found Vegas terrible at producing SD, which is in line with most NLEs. The better the quality and resolution of the starting footage the worse the final SD output unless you do extra work to remove detail. DVD Architect seems to do a better job on it's own, this seems to be because it doesn't have any built in resizing tools and is off-loading the resizing to the MainConcept SDK, this does a clean job but does get rid of a lot of detail due to applying lots of filters to hide/remove interlacing artefacts. DVD Architect doesn't give any access to quality settings from what I can see and the output on very complex scenes degrades too easily. Also the field order gets reversed. I use an AVISynth script that does a pretty good and suits a variety of footage. Regards Phil

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