Can't smart render HDV in Vegas Pro 9.0 (no "no recompression")

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

I'm trying to render raw HDV footage from a Canon XHA1 to an HDV project and avoid recompression.

I've done this successfully with XDCAM footage from an EX1, as well as DV footage (720X480) from my camera, and in both cases I got "no recompression" in the preview window and very fast processing times. But when I try to do this with HDV footage, it will recompress everything.

In all three cases I use the default render settings; the project settings matched the input; there are no FX whatsoever and no transitions, as I just drop a raw clip in the timeline and go straight to rendering; "smart recompress" is checked in the setting (obviously, since it works with other footage).

To summarize: EX1 footage (MPEG-2, 1920x1080, 35mbps) and DV footage (AVI, 720x480) won't recompress; HDV footage (MPEG-2, 1440x1080, 25mbps) will recompress every time.

I've read a lot of threads about this on this forum and on the net, but I'd like to hear from someone who has actually successfully tried it in Vegas, and what render settings you used.


J.

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

I wanted to specify that, naturally, in each case I used render settings that match the source footage.

[Ian Stark]

Couple of thoughts:

1. Are you using the Match Media Settings function to make sure the media properties match the project properties?

2. If you are, it might be worth double checking because I have had situations where Vegas has got it wrong! In particular field order.

3. Are you de-interlacing?

4. Which render template are you using?

It would be nice to have a render feature that allows you to 'match project properties', in the same way as we have the 'match media settings' feature.

[Laurence Kingston]

One thing I've noticed is that Vegas will only smart-render footage that is flagged as interlaced. For HDV this means that if you shoot at 24p or 30p, it won't smart-render. On my HVR-Z7 there is a setting that does 30p but is one of the interlaced options. This setting will smart-render, but you have to use the interlaced template. It still looks like 30p and there is no actual interlace, but the flags are identified as interlaced and so it works. Anyway, this is likely your problem.

[Leslie Wand]

It would be nice to have a render feature that allows you to 'match project properties', in 'the same way as we have the 'match media settings' feature. '

i thought the = in the render drop down did this?

[Ian Stark]

Ah yes, of course. It didn't click that the = appears in the drop down list of templates to make it easier to select. Thanks Leslie.

[Laurence Kingston]

I just want to ad here that a problem with HDV m2t smart-renders is that the audio is still recompressed. You can also smart-render m2t into XDCAM .mxf and ,mp4 containers. You have to match the bitrate to 25Mbps as well as the size and other format settings. XDCAM mp4 will only smartrender from HDV if you haven't touched the audio at all so I don't use it much, but .mxf smart-renders are pretty solid.

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

@Laurence : in all three tests, the source footage and render settings are progressive.

@Ian: I only use render settings that match the source media, i.e. settings that have a "=" next to them in the drop-down list. I still checked every setting just to be sure, and they match. I also used the Match Media settings, although, to throw a monkey wrench in the equation, I found in my tests that the project media has no impact on smart rendering, so long as your render setting = source media (in both my successful XDCAM and DV NTSC tests, the project setting was left at HDV).

@Laurence: I removed the audio track from the timeline and disabled it in the render settings, just to remove an unknown factor from the equation. But just to be sure I did a test using XDCAM matching render settings as output, and it still re-compresses.

I Googled this problem before coming here and while a lot of people experienced the same thing, no one could offer a solution in spite of all the helpful tips.

What I think would be extremely helpful is if someone could successfully test smart-rendering with HDV and report their findings here, because I (and others) sure can't.


J.

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

Well, I've done more extensive tests. I even tried rendering a clip to the default HDV setting, loading that rendered clip, matching project properties, and trying to render it again to the exact same render settings. Logically, this should work but Vegas still wouldn't smart-render.

I finally found out that this works only with interlaced footage. I almost always shoot in 30p. So, for this one project where I need to render in a short time, I'll have to shoot in 60i.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Julius Smith]

I just want to add that I ran into the same problem.
Shot in 1080 30p (Z5u) dump in vegas, did the match media, Vegas sees it as progressive 29.970, tried rendering with the 60i template with progressive and it recompresses,,,whatever I tried (matching the project media with the render settings) vegas always recompressed. I don't have a solution. I guess there isn't one?

[Julius Smith]

BTW:
I tried this suggestion:
HV30, 30p workflow, Vegas, smart render

using a program called Restream...it worked for these people, but not for me. It could be worth a try for someone.

[Jacques E. Bouchard]

I've now successfully smart-rendered in a live production setting using 60i footage, cuting by at least half the processing time. For some reason Vegas doesn't like progressive HDV footage, but with interlaced footage it performs smart rendering just fine.

The only thing is that upon playback (from my laptop fed into their projection system), I have to make sure my multimedia player (VLC or K-player) de-interlaces on-the-fly to avoid unsightly lines.