Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? at DVinfo.net

Jeff Harper · October 18th, 2011, 01:42 PM

I am trying to avoid conversion, hence I am asking those who know, if I deinterlace 1080i footage in a Vegas project for the web by simply rendering out of Vegas as progressive, how different will the results be compared to converting the original footage first using Cineform HDLink and editing that instead?

Would appreciate comments from Cineform users in particular. I love the results with converting, but need to explore working without converting in this case.

Jerry Amende · October 18th, 2011, 04:13 PM

I don't know about Cineform, but I can see a definite improvement by using HandBrake for deinterlacing. Here's a test between Vegas MainConcept, Vegas Sony AVC & HandBrake

HD Video for the Web - Guide for Vegas Users

...Jerry

Seth Bloombaum · October 19th, 2011, 10:07 AM

As Jerry says, it's the quality of the deinterlace that should be your guide. (His web pages on output are well worth reading, even if you never use the methods he recommends.)

Most people who do their own testing conclude Vegas' deinterlace is inferior to Cineform or Handbrake.

But, how much? Not much. Editing Cineform has other advantages and disadvantages. Handbrake is a low-headache method for creating really good h.264 files for distribution.

The only real rule is to deinterlace before changing the size (pixel dims) of clips. If you're editing native files on the timeline (ie. non-intermediate-codec), Vegas' deinterlace on render is pretty good. If you are transcoding to CF before editing, may as well use CF's good deinterlace.

OTOH, for final output, Vegas' method for changing size is clearly inferior to Handbrake or any other Lanczos-based method. So, if you're going out to distribution in a smaller-than-native size, you might as well use an external encoder's superior resize and deinterlace.

OTOH, I myself use Vegas' resize and deinterlace, quite a bit, inferior as they may be. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't... sometimes a quick and easy workflow is most important, and Vegas' output is good enough.

I've read about AVISynth methods that are better than any of this, but, a working pro has to ask himself / herself "Is what I have good enough?"

Jerry Amende · October 19th, 2011, 10:25 AM

I agree with Seth's comments completely. Just adding a couple more:

According to my testing, at higher bitrates, I can visually see very little difference between HandBrake, Vegas Sony AVC & Vegas MainConcept. It's only when rendering to the smallest possible file size for improved web streaming (actually, "progressive download" - but that's an entirely different discussion), do we see HandBrake's clear superiority.

A very good AVISynth method is actually linked on the Project Page listed above. Here's a direct link: High quality video for YouTube and Vimeo from Sony Vegas

...Jerry

Jeff Harper · October 19th, 2011, 10:45 AM

Thanks guys, for your feedback.

I am shooting 1080i now, rather than 720p as I was formerly. This is because my new camera offers only 1080i, and I wanted to upload a wedding video web sample, and I hated the idea of converting hours of a multicamera shoot so I could simply upload a video to Vimeo.

I don't care about for Bluray or DVD, I'm happy to give it to the customer as 1080i on Bluray, who cares? I would of course strongly prefer 60p, as I had before, but that is not to be, couldn't afford a 60p camera to match my GH2s, so I am just living with it.

Anyway, I did upload the sample not converted prior, and then after conversion, and I'm not sure of the differences. The key, I am finding is to minimize camera movement, including panning, during shooting, that is the single biggest thing I can do to improve my final product, for sure.

Jerry Amende · October 19th, 2011, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

I am shooting 1080i now, rather than 720p as I was formerly. This is because my new camera offers only 1080i, and I wanted to upload a wedding video web sample, and I hated the idea of converting hours of a multicamera shoot so I could simply upload a video to Vimeo.

In that case the following tutorial, produced by my good friend "musicvid" of the Sony Creative Software Forums is just what you need:

...Jerry

Jeff Harper · October 19th, 2011, 11:48 AM

Thanks Jerry, great stuff. Since I'm still editing 720p footage the tutorial is helpful in several ways, not just 1080i...

October 18th, 2011, 01:42 PM	#1
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? I am trying to avoid conversion, hence I am asking those who know, if I deinterlace 1080i footage in a Vegas project for the web by simply rendering out of Vegas as progressive, how different will the results be compared to converting the original footage first using Cineform HDLink and editing that instead? Would appreciate comments from Cineform users in particular. I love the results with converting, but need to explore working without converting in this case. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

October 18th, 2011, 04:13 PM	#2
Jerry Amende Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 129	Re: Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? I don't know about Cineform, but I can see a definite improvement by using HandBrake for deinterlacing. Here's a test between Vegas MainConcept, Vegas Sony AVC & HandBrake HD Video for the Web - Guide for Vegas Users ...Jerry

October 19th, 2011, 10:07 AM	#3
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? As Jerry says, it's the quality of the deinterlace that should be your guide. (His web pages on output are well worth reading, even if you never use the methods he recommends.) Most people who do their own testing conclude Vegas' deinterlace is inferior to Cineform or Handbrake. But, how much? Not much. Editing Cineform has other advantages and disadvantages. Handbrake is a low-headache method for creating really good h.264 files for distribution. The only real rule is to deinterlace before changing the size (pixel dims) of clips. If you're editing native files on the timeline (ie. non-intermediate-codec), Vegas' deinterlace on render is pretty good. If you are transcoding to CF before editing, may as well use CF's good deinterlace. OTOH, for final output, Vegas' method for changing size is clearly inferior to Handbrake or any other Lanczos-based method. So, if you're going out to distribution in a smaller-than-native size, you might as well use an external encoder's superior resize and deinterlace. OTOH, I myself use Vegas' resize and deinterlace, quite a bit, inferior as they may be. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't... sometimes a quick and easy workflow is most important, and Vegas' output is good enough. I've read about AVISynth methods that are better than any of this, but, a working pro has to ask himself / herself "Is what I have good enough?" __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

October 19th, 2011, 10:25 AM	#4
Jerry Amende Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Wilmington, DE Posts: 129	Re: Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? I agree with Seth's comments completely. Just adding a couple more: According to my testing, at higher bitrates, I can visually see very little difference between HandBrake, Vegas Sony AVC & Vegas MainConcept. It's only when rendering to the smallest possible file size for improved web streaming (actually, "progressive download" - but that's an entirely different discussion), do we see HandBrake's clear superiority. A very good AVISynth method is actually linked on the Project Page listed above. Here's a direct link: High quality video for YouTube and Vimeo from Sony Vegas ...Jerry

October 19th, 2011, 10:45 AM	#5
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? Thanks guys, for your feedback. I am shooting 1080i now, rather than 720p as I was formerly. This is because my new camera offers only 1080i, and I wanted to upload a wedding video web sample, and I hated the idea of converting hours of a multicamera shoot so I could simply upload a video to Vimeo. I don't care about for Bluray or DVD, I'm happy to give it to the customer as 1080i on Bluray, who cares? I would of course strongly prefer 60p, as I had before, but that is not to be, couldn't afford a 60p camera to match my GH2s, so I am just living with it. Anyway, I did upload the sample not converted prior, and then after conversion, and I'm not sure of the differences. The key, I am finding is to minimize camera movement, including panning, during shooting, that is the single biggest thing I can do to improve my final product, for sure. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described." Last edited by Jeff Harper; October 19th, 2011 at 11:43 AM.

October 19th, 2011, 11:48 AM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Deinterlace 1080i footage out of Vegas for Bluray and the Web, or convert first? Thanks Jerry, great stuff. Since I'm still editing 720p footage the tutorial is helpful in several ways, not just 1080i... __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."