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-   -   Shimmering after render to DVD (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/520676-shimmering-after-render-dvd.html)

Tim Akin January 3rd, 2014 08:30 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
That was gonna be my question Danny, what Leslie and Seth are using HB for. All I've ever herd about HB is how good it is for web base content.

Danny Fye January 3rd, 2014 10:20 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
Because I start with 60p and go to 720p for online I now use the Sony mp4 at 5,000,000 bps instead of HB and all the time it takes to multi-render for it. Multi-render includes the rendering in HB.

While quite possible to get lower bit rates with HB which I used to do the detail quality does suffer at those lower rates when there is a lot of movement which I have on my videos.

As for DVD, starting with 60p means there is no de-interlacing needed and I also avoid the problems and time consumption all that takes to do.

So I get great results just using Vegas and Main Concept.

If you are shooting interlaced then the slow method with VirtualDub is the best way to go. I used the AVI with the Sony codec for the first render and then the Go-Pro for the second render from VirtualDub and then finally to mpeg with Vegas. I did do something different than what others suggested in that I had VirtualDub resize to 720x480 instead of 720x405. Doing it this way I let Vegas do the aspect ratio for 16x9 and make the video DVD Arch compliant. Also check to not crop the video. I start with the Sony AVI because it would give me the best quality. It is slower to work with but since the whole thing was slow anyway and quality is the goal, I went with it.

The final results were great.

I really love the time progressive saves me from having to deal with all of that extra work and time needed for interlaced!

Seth Bloombaum January 3rd, 2014 12:38 PM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD

Originally Posted by Danny Fye (Post 1826415)
I do not think Handbrake will be of any help for rendering to DVD.

Ack. I'd been following the thread from the beginning, but had forgotten the desired output is MPEG2/DVD.

Quite right, unless one wishes to create a hi-bitrate MP4 as an intermediate file (to be avoided if possible), HB isn't really a good tool for DVD output.

Strange that Lanczos scaling methods for MPEG2 aren't more accessible.

Tim Akin January 3rd, 2014 01:42 PM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
Danny, have you tried hd2sd - Avisynth/VirtualDub with your 60p conversion to DVD?

Danny Fye January 3rd, 2014 04:30 PM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
My MUCH faster workflow that I am using now gives me great results that I get nothing but complements about from those who get the DVD's so I have no desire to mess with anything else such as Avisynth/VirtualDub to DVD. I noticed that the workflow suggestions I can find are for interlaced instead of progressive videos.

For me it is just one more way to take a lot more time to get the same (Visual) results. Note: Visual not necessarily actual.

Tim Akin January 3rd, 2014 06:40 PM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD

Originally Posted by Danny Fye (Post 1826310)
I shoot 60p.

I set the clip properties to Disable resample and Undersample rate to 0.500 to get 29.970 fps progressive and the project properties also to 29.970 fps for NTSC instead of 59.940 double NTSC. Deinterlaced method is set for none. I set the sharpen filter for light with the broadcast filter set to lenient to make sure the video is 16 to 235.

I render using the Sony mp4 at 5,000,000 bps instead of using an intermediate and HandBrake for online videos. And just Main Concept with settings of progressive for DVD's.

Am I understanding this right, you render to mpeg, for DVD, from your finished project's timeline?

Danny Fye January 3rd, 2014 09:35 PM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
"Am I understanding this right, you render to mpeg, for DVD, from your finished project's timeline?"

With those settings, Yes!

And I love the time it saves me!

Tim Akin January 4th, 2014 05:58 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
Ok Danny, I tried with all settings and it was fast but the aliasing was un-watchable. I double checked everything but there's got to be something else to it, I know there's no way your videos are turning out the way this test did.

Danny Fye January 4th, 2014 07:24 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
I wonder if the differences could be from our source videos. I have the Sony HDR-PJ710 which shoots Progressive segmented Frames which is like shooting interlaced but every line is the same instead of different.

Progressive segmented frame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to them, "Technically, the segments are equivalent to interlaced fields, but unlike native interlaced video, there is no motion between the two fields that make up the video frame: both fields represent the same instant in time. This technique allows for a progressive picture to be processed through the same electronic circuitry that is used to store, process and route interlaced video."

If your camera(s) is/are shooting progressive differently then that might be the problem?

Just a wild guess...

Do make sure that de-interlace is set to none in the project settings as well. Also, with some videos it is best to not use the sharpen filter or use it with the minimum amount of sharpening.

Maybe if we had access to a few minutes of your original video file you are working with and at the point where you are having the most problems we can play with it and figure it all out.

Meanwhile and off-topic, I need to get ready to head out to get some groceries before the snow starts and it gets super cold! Brrrrrr.

Tim Akin January 4th, 2014 08:29 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
Thanks Danny for your help.

I am putting this to rest. Using hd2sd, VirtualDub/Avisynth and HCencoder has completely removed all shimmering/aliasing. That was the purpose of this thread. Agreed it does take longer. I can see if someone is doing this everyday it quite possibly could be too much.

Final updated workflow:

From a Vegas11 1920x1080p 59.970 project when completed with all editing

Render to 1920x1080p 29.970 avi using Lagarith Codec YV12 changing project properties to 29.970

Bring that avi file into VirtualDub with script: hd2sd("video.avi",interlaced=false, NR=7, GrapeSmootherAmount=20, FFT3DAmount= 128, OutputColorSpace="YV12") setting VD to fast re-compress, Lagarith codec set to YV12

Bring that 720x480avi file into HCencoder and render to m2v for import to DVDA

Using free tools, IMO, this is as good as HD 60p to SD is gonna get.

Anyone see anything wrong with this please let me know. The final results are very good though, no aliasing at all, sharp, no blurring, smooth as silk with nice smooth slow motion.

Thanks to everyone that has responded!


Danny Fye January 4th, 2014 11:49 AM

Re: Shimmering after render to DVD
Being that you got the results you want, I say stick to it.

The goal is to find the workflow that gets the job done. Preferably the fastest one possible.

I spent many hours finding what works for me.

I am glad you got the help you needed! I hope you can eventually find a faster workflow. Maybe a miracle will happen and the next version of Vegas will finally get it right?

I did some reading and I noticed that those who use other NLE's have the same problems.

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