Cineform Connect HD Essential?

[Yi Fong Yu]

with the gearshift proxy, i assume it does the proxy on the fly.

with cf, i'm assuming it's going to take time to convert m2t to cf avi... or does it do that on the fly during capture?

[Fred Foronda]

Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu

with the gearshift proxy, i assume it does the proxy on the fly.

with cf, i'm assuming it's going to take time to convert m2t to cf avi... or does it do that on the fly during capture?

From the readings on CF converts HDV on the fly meaning HDV is converted while its being captured through Cineform. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Phil Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Fred Foronda

From the readings on CF converts HDV on the fly meaning HDV is converted while its being captured through Cineform. Correct me if I am wrong.

During the capture the HDV from the camera is captured as M2T. Then the directions say to add this to your timeline and render to AVI via the Cineform HD codec so you can work with it. It is not a proxy file per se though because it is huge and you can use this to go back to tape or to DVD Mpeg.
Can you put the M2T file directly on the DVD? I wonder if that would work and what the quality would look like...?

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

During the capture the HDV from the camera is captured as M2T. Then the directions say to add this to your timeline and render to AVI via the Cineform HD codec so you can work with it. It is not a proxy file per se though because it is huge and you can use this to go back to tape or to DVD Mpeg.
Can you put the M2T file directly on the DVD? I wonder if that would work and what the quality would look like...?

Well... yes you can "put the m2t directly to DVD" - sort of. Just change the m2t file extension to mpg, then load that into your DVD creation app. Mind you, not all DVD creation appz support loading MPEG2 high level transport streams, so it's a "suck it and see" exercise. If you find a DVD authoring app that can cope, you then need to wait for the ages it's going to take to re-render the DVD compliant MPEG2. You also have to hope that the DVD authoring application's bitrate settings, frame rate, blend mode (if going from interlaced to progressive) and quality settings are capable of extracting the maximum quality from the source as possible.

Mind you; that's assuming you don't want titles, fades, transitions, colour correction, etc, etc....

Which brings me to the fact that there seems to be some confusion regarding Cineform CFHD implimentation. There is a difference in the process if capturing via Vegas to the timeline, as opposed to capturing via ConnectHD and the HD Link utility.

Via HD Link; there is the option to capture directly to CFHD avi, or both CFHD and m2t as well as m2t only. m2t files can also be converted to CFHD after capture using the HD Link utilities conversion facility.

As to the process and whether a capture directly to CFHD from the camera via HD Link is superior in quality to one converted in Vegas... all I have to go on is the posts here.

I capture to both CFHD and m2t via HD Link. It takes a little longer, but I figure I'll use the CFHD avi's for editing and rendering out my final to whatever destination I intend, and write the m2t clips to Dual Layer DVD for backup.

There's no hard and fast workflow that has reared up as the "ultimate" HDV editing path, but we're all agreed that the fewer render processes run on the original feed, the better.

[Phil Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

Mind you; that's assuming you don't want titles, fades, transitions, colour correction, etc, etc....

When in Vegas....I print to HDV Tape from the Timeline that is using the AVI files rendered from the M2T files created at capture. These are the Cineform codec AVI files that supposedly don't require a "replace" prior to render the project back to tape or mpg.

Now when I do print to HDV tape an M2T file is created that is then used to record back to miniDV in HD format. All fades, title, etc are there. So why could I not use this new M2T file and rename to mpg for the DVD or am I missing something on this?

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

Now when I do print to HDV tape an M2T file is created that is then used to record back to miniDV in HD format. All fades, title, etc are there. So why could I not use this new M2T file and rename to mpg for the DVD or am I missing something on this?

Why not? You got me!! As long as there is indeed a m2t created to a specific location on a hard drive, where it can be 'retrieved'... you should be able to change the file extension to *.mpg and load that into your DVD Authoring app to cut DVDs from.

I had assumed the m2t would have been 'temporary' and would be deleted automatically at the end of the "write to tape" process... Good to hear that it isn't a temp m2t!!

[Fred Foronda]

Originally Posted by Edward Troxel

Vegas includes everything needed to edit HDV. A version of the Cineform codec is also included. The full purchase version adds more features but is not required for editing HDV.

I played with Vegas more. Yes everything is in V6. Its a different process that editing DV. This is what I did:
-Captured HDV footage onto Vegas 6 and placed it on the timeline (m2t)
-Rendred to the supplied cineform codec.
-Then did a simple fade in and out to the cineform codec. It runs smoothly
like editing DV.
-Next I replaced the cineform codec back to the original m2t file.

I guess this is how its gonna be played guys. You can spend $$ to get the full blown Cineform where you can get the scene detection which V6 don't have for HDV (arrrggghh!!!). Otherwise V6 alone to do HDV is do able. Now for the Vegas Gurus. With this done, since there isn't Blu Ray yet..I want to print to tape. Will Vegas re-render the whole final edited m2t again then print?

Thanks guys for all the comments on these boards. For someone who has no computer or video background I am able to do this hobbie that I love.

[Phil Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Fred Foronda

I played with Vegas more. Yes everything is in V6. Its a different process that editing DV. This is what I did:
-Captured HDV footage onto Vegas 6 and placed it on the timeline (m2t)
-Rendred to the supplied cineform codec.
-Then did a simple fade in and out to the cineform codec. It runs smoothly
like editing DV.
-Next I replaced the cineform codec back to the original m2t file.
Will Vegas re-render the whole final edited m2t again then print?

Fred - I do the same EXCEPT you don't have to replace the cineform avi back to M2T - check the manual - if you use Cineform this step is unnecessary and works just fine without the replace. When you go to TOOLS..Print to HDV Tape... yes another render takes place add fades, etc. which results in a new M2T file with all of your edit.

Be sure to uncheck the DELETE box otherwise this temp file will be deleted. This file is then used to play directly back to miniDV on your camera. Now you have an archive copy on disk and tape. Woohoo!! phil

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Phil,
If you edit the DI and are printing back to tape, you should do the PTT from the TIMELINE, not any other render. Then you're not rendering twice. There is no visual loss that occurs in doing this, but there are some minor advantages if you're going to DVD, if you stick with the m2t for rendering. Otherwise, stick with the CineForm file all the way thru til you render for tape archive.

[Yi Fong Yu]

thanks FRED!

that was very helpful. i'm able to take the HDV clips from DVI.net and edit them easily with my current system in vegas6 =). thx.

DSE, what are those minor advantages of m2t for rendering vs. cf?

[Fred Foronda]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

Fred - I do the same EXCEPT you don't have to replace the cineform avi back to M2T - check the manual - if you use Cineform this step is unnecessary and works just fine without the replace. When you go to TOOLS..Print to HDV Tape... yes another render takes place add fades, etc. which results in a new M2T file with all of your edit.
phil

Cool, how does the final edited HDV looked on tape?? Is there any loss in picture quality??

Thanks

[Phil Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Fred Foronda

Cool, how does the final edited HDV looked on tape?? Is there any loss in picture quality??

Thanks

I cannot tell the difference at all when viewing the original tape and then looking at the edited version put back to tape. Both look great to me. Give it a try - add a few transitions, titles, etc. to a 20 second clip and check it out.

One thing is for sure HD has spoiled me. Even though the HD on the timeline is rendered to SD for DVD and looks really good - you compare it back to HD and you feel disappointed. I have a Sony HDR-HCI and am very pleased with it and the SD DV pictures it produces are absolutely great - but - disappointing compared to HDV. ph

[Fred Foronda]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

I cannot tell the difference at all when viewing the original tape and then looking at the edited version put back to tape. Both look great to me. Give it a try - add a few transitions, titles, etc. to a 20 second clip and check it out.

One thing is for sure HD has spoiled me. Even though the HD on the timeline is rendered to SD for DVD and looks really good - you compare it back to HD and you feel disappointed. I have a Sony HDR-HCI and am very pleased with it and the SD DV pictures it produces are absolutely great - but - disappointing compared to HDV. ph

Thats great to hear. I myself had seen a pd170 scene and a fx/z1 side by side comparision played on SD dvd. There was a BIG difference. (both scene shot the same way lighting etc...) It was like comparing vhs to dvd!!!

I would like to know if their is any quality difference between editing HDV straight onto Vegas using the supplied codec...versus editing HDV using an "outsider" Cineform HD. That will help me decide if I should get the full blown Cineform.

[Jim Rog]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

I have Vegas 6 and I use the Print to HDV Tape... selection under the tools menu. This works fine but my oh my does it take time! Any suggestions on improving speed to create the M2T file that gets printed back to tape?

Please tell me what settings you are using because i cant get mine to work