SOS capturing problems - dropping frames
 

Hi. I'm trying to capture video to Vegas 5.0 with my Sony PAL pd150. I've never had problems doing this in the past, but this time something is definitely WRONG.

THE SYMPTOMS:
Both video and audio do not run smoothly when capturing. sort of a stuttering effect, as if it's dropping every 3rd or 4th frame. and in fact, the dropped frames rate shoots way up to the dozens in a matter of seconds.

TESTS:
Playing back on camera while watching on LCD screen and listening through built-in camera speaker - ALL IS OK.

Tried capturing from different tape which I know has worked perfectly fine before - SAME PROBLEM OCCURED.

SETTINGS:

VIDEO
25 fps. (PAL)
720x576, pixel aspect ratio: 1.0926 (PAL DV)
Lower field first
No deinterlacing

CAPTURE PREFERENCES
Nothing special... did of course set Custom frame rate to: 25.000 (PAL)

............

Does anyone have any ideas? I'm really stuck. Have to edit a wedding and hope to be done by the time the couple gets back from their honeymoon!!

Still not 100% sure this is a Vegas issue, although I can pretty much rule out this being a camera issue..... could be hardware..... I have no idea. I'm not very techy, trying to learn though.

Any help will be blessed. Thank you

More Testing......
 

.... just updating you guys.

Tried more tests:

*** Turned scene detection off. NO IMPROVEMENT. The exact same problem occures regardless of scene detection.

*** Tried capturing to different hard drive. NO IMPROVEMENT.
(By the way, I'm using a deticated hard drive for the video media which is definately fast and big enough. As I said before, have done plenty of editing previously, using the exact same set-up: same camera, same hardware, same software.)

*** Here's an important test... tried capturing with Windows Movie Maker. SAME PROBLEM OCCURED.... (i guess this pretty much rules out this being a vegas issue.... hmmmmm).

When I try playing back the video through Vegas or Windows Movie Maker, using the software controls... I can see and hear the material perfectly. So it's safe to say that this is a problem ONLY when capturing.

I'm using firewire (don't have another option). I haven't tried using a different firewire port or cable, because I don't have one. But my Ipod words fine on the same firewire port.

Does anyone have any suggestions... I'm lost here. Went through all threads I could find in this forum that mentioned dropped frames but none have helped me resolve my particular problem so far. I'm close to giving up. I... I... I... don't know what else to try....(getting glossy eyed)... unless I get help I'm afraid...(tear noticeably forming)... my next step will probably be.... (sniff sniff).... formatting my c: drive and reinstalling my entire system (face buried in hands, outright sobbing).

Hi Adi,

My guesses:

1. One or more harddrives has gone back to non-DMA mode(ie PIO mode)
2. Firewire and harddrive(or graphics) has accidently been allocated on the same IRQ(by the ACPI system). Try deleting the firewire card and "re-discover" it
3. Virus protection going wild

Good luck!

// Lazze

Lars, first of all thank you VERY MUCH for replying.

I must stress once again that I am not what you might call a techy person. But I'm not afraid to learn. Responding to your tips:

1. I read something about non-DMA mode on a older thread covering dropped frames. I have no idea what DMA mode is, but I followed instructions and checked - opened Device Manager and took a look at the Primary IDE Channel Properties. Device 0 has Current Transfer Mode set to Ultra DMA Mode 5, Device 1 set to Multi-Word DMA Mode 2.... is this ok?)

2. I don't know what you mean by "accidentally been allocated on the same IRQ(by the ACPI system)". My firewire is onboard my motherboard, which is an Intel D865PERL board. If you need the complete specs:
http://www.intel.com/products/mother...perl/index.htm
My graphics card is a Matrox Millennium G550. No separate firewire card.

3. I'm using Norton AntiVirus. Already tried disabling it. Doesn't make a difference.

A suggestion -try to get your hands on another cable
 

I had a very similar problem several months ago. Capture to Vegas was erratic at best but mostly non existant. I borrowed a new firewire cable from the shop that sold me my pc. It worked flawlessly - so I went back and paid for it.

Ken, I'm curious, did you ONLY have problems CAPTURING video?

Playback seems to work fine. I can plug in my pd150 using the same firewire cable and port, fire up vegas 5.0, go to capture mode and view the tape by pressing the PLAY button - without a hitch. It's just when I try to capture the video that it gets all stuttery and screwy, dropping frames all over the place.

Sounds like something else is running in background. Have you added any new hardware or software lately ? Any new addition could be using resources and be interfering with capabity of you hard drive to capture. Have you tried capturing to a different ? Even Microsoft software updating could be creating a download, if you are internet connected. Also, have you ever defragmented you hard drives ?

Chris, to answer your questions:

Have you tried capturing to a different ? DO YOU MEAN DIFFERENT HARD DRIVE? YES. I TRIED CAPTURING TO BOTH MY HARD DRIVES - MY DEDICATED HARD DRIVE AND MY SYSTEM HARD DRIVE. SAME RESULTS.

Even Microsoft software updating could be creating a download, if you are internet connected. DISCONNECTED INTERNET. SAME RESULTS.

Have you ever defragmented you hard drives ? I DEFRAGMENTED BOTH MY HARD DRIVES. SAME RESULTS.

The only thing that happened recently which possibly could have something to do with my problem, is that I've been having difficulties with my anti-virus and internet protection software. My Norton Internet Security 2005 expired a couple of weeks ago. I tried to use a trial version Mcafee Antivirus afterwards, only to find out that there's a known software conflict between Mcafee Antivirus and a program called PodUtil which is a 3rd party program I use with my iPod. So I uninstalled Mcafee and tried installing Norton again. Easier said then done. Turns out, you have to remove stuff from your registration that Norton put in there and a bunch of other things before you reinstall a different version of Norton. So I did what I had to do, following Symantec Support Instructions very carefully. Then I tried to install the new version of Norton Internet Security. I completed the installation process, but unsuccessfully. When I open up the program an error message popped up saying: An error has occurred. If this error occurs again, uninstall and then reinstall the product (error 5004,183). Needless to say, the error occurred again. So I got really bummed, poured myself a beer and disabled Norton Internet Security for now. I plan to take care of that problem later when I've prepared myself mentally.

So right now, my erroneous Norton Internet Security is disabled and has remained disabled throughout my unsuccessful attempts to capture tapes on Vegas 5, but could all of this somehow be causing the problems I'm experiencing? and if so, what are my options?

Thanks.

Hi Adi:

Yes my problem was exactly as you describe. Everything worked fine except for the capture process. It was very confusing and very frustrating. I spent hours trying to diagnose the problem and started to conclude that it was a hardware issue and not software or settings related. With that in mind, the simplest place to start was with the firewire cable and that proved to be the problem.

I am by no means an expert - believe me. I just got lucky! I'm sure there are tons of other reasons for this type of problem - mine, fortunalely, turned out to have a rather simple fix.

Good luck.
Ken

Have a look at what stuff is running in the background - ctrl-alt-del and go down the list - it will take a while but anything with a strange process name should be run through google. If your machine is internet conencted, I'll bet you have at least 2 or 3 nasties running in the background.

I had very similar problems capturing on one of my machines all of a sudden - the problem seemed to be in the firewire card - the check of background processes revealed a few things that shouldn't have been there, and loads that should, of course. Many of these start up again if you shut them down. The google links usually led me to a site with removal instructions. after cleaning this rubbish out, normal service was resumed. I've been told, but not yet proved, that both norton untilities and windows system restore often have priority and if these kick in during capture you can get the occasional dropped frame.

I now capture using DV-rack (serious magic) and this seems much more stable and reliable than the capture utility in premiere or the windows one.
Paul

Virus Software and Nortons
 

Well, I have to tell you that about 6 years ago I swore off Nortons, and the other big commercial computer maintenance software. I always felt they create more problems and eat up more system resources than they need to. I currently use AVG from www.grisoft.com as my only virus software. I also use Ad-Aware as a pop up detector, and I also use Spybot Search and Destroy. All have free versions which are more than adequate. I run the AVG all the time, and the others when I detect I am having some problems. (Things like system resources being used up.) They will isolate unwanted programs and spy software. Keep them updated, and you should eliminate the problems there, if you have any. In meantime, try uninstalling any protection software you have on the computer, and then retry the capture. I am guessing you might have McAffee competing with something going on in what is left with the Norton sofware. While you do this, disconnect from internet, if you want to feel protected.

In meantime, the other thing that happens in unprotected situations is that your system has some sort of downloader software on board. It is even remotely possible your machine is being used to carry out bot commands by another system.

If you hit control/alt/del on you keyboard simultaneously, the Windows task manager will pop up and you can see what applications are currently running, and you can select "Processes", and see if anything is using system resources. As I sit here and check mine, and since I am not running any major programs, it tells me 99% of my resources are in system idle mode.

Hi again,

Hopefully everything is solved now...

But:

* Even though the firewire is onboard, yiu can delete it from device manager and then let windows find it again

* Do you have any errors or warnings in device manager? ie yellow ! marks

Good luck!

// Lazze

Well guys... thanks for all the effort to help me get this straightened out. unfortunately, i've tried pretty much everything you've suggested so far except for going out and buying a new firewire cable.

i've pretty much come to the conclusion that it might be a good time anyway to make a clean installation of windows, format the c: drive, install my software applications from new and start from fresh.

if this doesn't solve the problem, i'll go and get a new firewire cable.... hopefully at that stage - the new cable will do the trick. if not..... i'll be up shit creek, will probably have to start swapping hard drives and stuff.

i'll update this thread with outcomes.

that's all for now.... cheers

I would check for incompatibilities in Device Manager and try a new cable for 3$ before reinstalling everything on my computer...

It's faster to reinstall than running to the store and buying a new cable? Wow! I want your system.

Unfortunately..... i'm already back with yet another post. haven't reinstalled my windows yet. Ran into MORE COMPLICATIONS.

I already have a rope handy, I just haven't been able to figure out how to tie the noose knot. otherwise, i doubt if i'd be around to post this message....

Anyway..... in order to MAKE SURE i'm doing everything properly, i performed a quick search on google and found "tweakhound - the right way to install windows xp"

http://www.tweakhound.com/xp/installxp/installXP1.htm

Following their instructions step by step, i got to the part where they say:
_____________________
"Prepare Your Computer
Turn off your power supply and monitor. Unplug the power supply. Now unplug everything from the back of the computer. Take the left side (as you look at the front) of the computer case off. On some cases the top and sides are one piece, if so remove the whole thing. Vacuum the inside of the computer, especially around the fans. It may be necessary to remove the front cover to adequately clean in front of the front fan. A can of compressed air helps tremendously with this."
This is a great time to add any hardware!
Put it all back together. Plug everything back in. Turn on your power supply. Start up the computer and make sure everything works. Shut it off again.
_______________________

so..... after using a can of compressed air to clean out the inside of my computer a bit, and washing out the washable front dust filter, i put the cover back on, plugged in the power and switched the PC on.

expecting a normal windows start up, chimes, desktop, icons and all... instead.... i got a blue screen with a windows icon in the upper right hand corner and CHKDSK started checking my L: drive (which is one of three partitions i have in my 160GB dedicated hard drive for media files, there's K:, L: and M:) for consistency. My L: is a 60GB partition out of the total 160GB and still has about 19GB free on it.

so I let CHKDSK check the drive and waited for my desktop to load up. then I restarted my computer to see if whatever problems where identified in my L: drive had been fixed. This time windows started up fine, desktop came up, no CHKDSK... BUT... opening my My Computer icon, i saw that the whole dedicated hard drive (all partitions K:, L: and M:) was not there. only my C: drive was there.

Frowning, I turned my computer off, opened up the side panel again, made sure all connections where in place and switched the power back on.

this time CHKDSK came on again, and once more set about checking the L: partition. Just to make things more interesting... THIS time... when it got to the part where it says: "verifying file data (stage 4 of 5)" the checking progress started at "completing 0 percent", then rather slowly advanced to "completing 1 percent" and stopped there. i waited for a good 15 minutes and it was still at "completing 1 percent". After about 20 minutes it finally reached 2 percent!

turned off computer. turned on again. this time my frown had turned into a blank expression of total apathy and numbness. the result of my rebooting remained the same. CHKDSK checks L: and then gets unbearingly sluggish on stage 4 - verifying file data, advancing about 1 percent every 20 minutes. tried once more. no good. i can't begin to describe what i feel at the moment... and there's a couple who should be back from their honeymoon in a few days hoping to gather around with friends and family to view the DVD i'm supposed to edit and make of their wedding.....

my questions are:

1. do you think this has to do with my capturing video problem? (i was trying to capture to my K: partition, but i DID try once to capture to my C: drive which is a different hard drive)

2. what do i do now????

if this helps any, here are the specs of my miserable machine:

Intel P4 2.4 800 processor
Intel D865PERL motherboard
HEC 300W power supply
Matrox Millennium G550 32MB video card
M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card
Hynex 2x256MB DDR 400 memory
WD 120GB 7200 RPM 8MB cache drive (one partition - C - this is where i store windows and software)
WD 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB cache drive (three partitions - K, L & M - dedicated for storing media files)

all are a bit over 2 years old, except for sound card (1.5 years), 160GB hard drive (a bit under 2 years)

if you don't think this is the right forum to post this kind of question... i'm getting more and more into hardware technical stuff that doesn't really have anything to do with video, dv or sony vegas.... and you know if a more appropriate forum - i'd be happy to get a link. i've already posted on The TechGuys Help Forum, but still haven't got a reply.

... sigh... thanks.

regarding your accurate remarks about the new cable vs. reinstalling windows... it's true, faster and easier to buy a new cable. but because of the complicated issue of different anti virus softwares getting all screwy with me and forcing me to start meddling around in my registration and whatnot... and because i know it's a recommended thing to do, every now and again (which i haven't done since buying the computer a bit over 2 years ago)... i decided to go ahead and do a clean re-installation.

in any case... in light of my new problem... the question is sadly irrelevant.

If, as you say, you are not a very tech person then don't do another thing. Get a pc specialist do further investigating, you risk loosing your drive's contents. First thing would be connecting your drive to another computer and trying to backup your files...

My very wild guess is that your ide controller has bad connections, but it could be a lot of other things, a drive developping bad sectors etc.

Ouch!
 

Adi,

To rule out a bad cable, can you get access to another pc with a firewire port and some sort of capture program? Just a thought...it might help to narrow things down a least a bit and, perhaps, reduce your stress level a notch or two.

Good luck...I know the feeling.

Ken

Ken,

i have a laptop, but it's firewire port is 4-pin, so won't be able to use the same cable.

doesn't seem like i have another option. not an immediate one.

my main concern at the moment is getting my hard drive to work properly.

thanks.


Dionyssios,

there's a good chance I'll end up taking my computer to a pc technician. but i'd still want to give it a go, if i had the proper instructions.

it's not like i've never held a screwdriver in my life.... i do have some technical common sense and i know a thing or two about computers, but i'd still say I'm far from being one of those guys that take apart their computers every week and rebuild them, over-clocking, cracking programs and whatnot. it's mostly the jargon that throws me off. but if I'm given clear instructions and some basic explanaition of what I'm doing - i'll be ok.

adi

hello again. just a short update.

1. used western digital diagnostic utility to zero problematic hard drive.
2. formatted both hard drives
3. fresh installed windows, drivers and software apps.
4. bought new firewire cable

result: the hard drive seems to be working fine now. but i'm still getting the same results when trying to capture from my pd150 - dropping frames like crazy. withing 30 seconds of capturing, the dropped frames counter is already in the hundreds.

so i guess the hard drive problem and the capture problem didn't have anything to do with eachother.

two options remain: ) something wrong with camera (maybe it's just the firewire port), 2) something wrong with the firewire port in my computer.

i want to hook up my pd150 to a different computer to try and isolate the problem.

there's an hp notebook i can use, but it only has a 4-pin firewire port (the smaller kind). if i get the right cable, will i be able to catpure video with the pd150 through a 4-pin firewire port?

from what i know, the difference between 6-pin firewire and 4-pin is that the 6-pin enables the device to get power through firewire as well. with 4-pin firewire you'de need to power up the device with an AC adaptor. but i'm not sure that's the ONLY difference. what do you think?

Hello,

Sorry to hear that your problems still aren't fixed! You had another firewire device that worked 100% so I'd guess that the firewire is working properly.

My guess is that your chipset/IDE/Sata drivers are old/not installed.

When doing a fresh install of windows you will need to:

1. Install Win Xp
2. Install chipset drivers
3. Install ide/sata drivers
4. Install XP SP2
5. Install gfx/sound drivers
6. Install Vegas etc

best regards,

Lars Siden

Yes. 4-pin is just fine.

Regarding the dropped frames problem - are you sure that your pc is not infected with a virus or trojan that is chewing up processor cycles? How about adware? If you don't run antivirus, try the freeware AVG from grisoft.com.

Somewhere up this thread there was reference to other apps chewing up proc cycles - you check this by opening task manager (ctrl-alt-del) and reviewing applications and processes. You can quickly find out if you need this or that process by searching on the name in google. (eg. avgupsvc.exe is my antivirus updater, I don't need that during capture). You may also discover malware this way. you mentioned podutil - don't need that either during capture.

Finally, it's always a good idea to unplug from the network during capture and not run any other applications.