HDV on my laptop with Vegas?

[Konrad Haskins]

Getting a new Sony HVR-A1 (gotta love the rebate) and taking it with me to visit my parents in Austalia.

I'm just wondering if I'll get the best Vegas is 6.0D HDV editting performance on a laptop using Gearshift or Cineform Connect HD? Something I'm missing?

My laptop is a Dell Latitude D610 2.0ghz Pentium M, 1GB Memory (I can upgrade to 2GB), 80GB HDD, ATI X300 video with dedicated 64MB DDR, 8x DVDRW. I'm using an external Firewire/USB 2.0 enclosure with a Seagate SATA 300GB HDD & a Firewire card.

[Mark Bryant]

Konrad,

I edit on a D610, also with 1 GB memory, though I have the 1.6 Mhz version.

I use Gearshift, I've not tried CineForm Connect HD. Rule of thumb is a 2 MHZ Pentium M is similar performance to a 3 GHZ P4, which might just work OK with Connect HD, you can try it. I don't think my 1.6 will cut it, and anyway I'd like to avoid an additional purchase.

With Gearshift it works fine. I've tried both DV proxies and also editing CineForm intermediate files. As long as I have the preview quality set to "preview" or lower I can preview the CineForm files at full rate. To preview more complex composting the DV proxies are better.

Mark

[Konrad Haskins]

Mark, Thanks, Konrad

[Alex Thames]

Sorry for this sort of question, but I am new to these things. What exactly are Gearshift and Cineform Connect HD? How do they work in conjunction with Vegas?

[John Rofrano]

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

Sorry for this sort of question, but I am new to these things. What exactly are Gearshift and Cineform Connect HD? How do they work in conjunction with Vegas?

GearShift is a tool that plugs into Vegas (via it’s scripting engine) and will create DV Proxies (and optionally CineForm and Sony YUV intermediaries) from your original M2T files. If you have a slower PC you can work with DV Proxies while editing. Then before you render, GearShift can automatically swap the proxies for the real media for a high res render. It was designed with slower PC’s in mind and works with any PC that can handle DV.

CineForm Connect HD is a stand-alone program that will capture direct to a CineForm intermediary file. It also has some great options to flip your video (if you are using a 35mm adapter) and inverse telecine Sony CF24 to a real 24p data stream. (and does a darn good job of it!) It also has a few other conversion options including the ability to print back to tape. In order to make the best use of it, you must have a PC that is powerful enough to handle HD intermediaries.

So if you have a slower PC or want to save some money at the expense of rendering time you can use GearShift. If you have a powerful PC that is HD ready, you can get Connect HD and save time by capturing directly to an intermediary file which is ready to edit.

I am one of the authors of GearShift and I also own Connect HD and use it all the time to capture direct to CineForm intermediaries. Each tool has its place.

~jr

[Alex Thames]

Thanks for the detailed answer, John. But some follow-up questions:
1) What are Cineform and Sony YUV intermediaries?
2) When you say DV proxy, does that mean a substitute file in DV format to be used while editing? Is that what a proxy is? (sorry, all this technical jargon is new to me).
3) DV vs. HDV. Does DV simply mean Standard Definition on a DV or Mini-DV cassette, while HDV is High Definition on a DV or Mini-DV cassette?

I use a ASUS M5 laptop with:
Intel (R) Pentium (R) M
processor 1.60 gHz
768 mb of RAM
graphics: Mobile Intel (R) 915gm/gms, 910gml express chipset family
not dedicated

Is this setup too weak, even with software like Gearshift or Connect HD, for HDV editing using Vegas 6.0d?

Side question:
1) Do you know what Magic Bullet does? There seems to be two separate things: Magic Bullet Editors, which has different elements for different editors (Vegas, FCP, Premiere, Monitor, etc.), and Magic Bullet Editors Suite, which seems to be for Adobe After Effects? Is that right?
2) What are Cineform Aspect HD and Prospect HD? Are they related to Cineform Connect HD?

Thanks.

[John Rofrano]

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

1) What are Cineform and Sony YUV intermediaries?

An intermediary format is a format that is not the original. It is used during an intermediate step in processing (hence the name). MPEG2 Transport Streams record a group of pictures (GOP) where for every one full frame image (I-Frame) there are 14 delta and predictive frames (B & P-Frame) which only contain partial data and rely on other frames to fully render their frame. That means it requires a lot of processing power to randomly reconstruct a single frame when editing and it also affects things like color correction because only 1 in 15 frames are “real”. So it is recommended that you edit with an intermediary codec which contains all full frames. Both the CineForm and Sony YUV are full frame codecs.

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

2) When you say DV proxy, does that mean a substitute file in DV format to be used while editing? Is that what a proxy is? (sorry, all this technical jargon is new to me).

Yes, you got it right. You edit with the DV files and then swap them out for the HD files before rendering.

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

3) DV vs. HDV. Does DV simply mean Standard Definition on a DV or Mini-DV cassette, while HDV is High Definition on a DV or Mini-DV cassette?

Yes, HDV is a specific format of Hi Def. HDV comes in two flavors, HDV1 is 1280x720p and HDV2 is 1980x1080i. Both are HDV.

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

Is this setup too weak, even with software like Gearshift or Connect HD, for HDV editing using Vegas 6.0d?

That setup is perfect for GearShift. It may be a little weak for Connect HD.

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

1) Do you know what Magic Bullet does? There seems to be two separate things: Magic Bullet Editors, which has different elements for different editors (Vegas, FCP, Premiere, Monitor, etc.), and Magic Bullet Editors Suite, which seems to be for Adobe After Effects? Is that right?

Magic Bullet applies a "film look" to your footage. We sell a similar plug-in for Vegas called ReelPaks that are less expensive and render faster but there is still some work that Magic Bullet does (like deinterlacing) that we don’t. You have the difference between the Editors version and Suite version correct.

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

2) What are Cineform Aspect HD and Prospect HD? Are they related to Cineform Connect HD?

Aspect HD and Prospect HD are for Premiere users and have different levels of functions. Connect HD is for Vegas users.

~jr

[Yi Fong Yu]

on a related note: ain't most laptops' hard drives@5400 instead of 7200? will 5400rpm work with video editing?

i believe there are 7200rpm hd models but they don't have large capacities. largest is... what 100gb? seagate has a perpendicular HD that just came out @150 or somn but still 5400.

[Mark Bryant]

5400 is fast enough for capture. In fact, with my laptop I can capture fine to the 5400 rpm internal drive, but I get dropped frames when capturing to a 7200 rpm Firewire drive. Must be a bottleneck in the Firewire connection somewhere. So as a workaround I capture to the internal drive then copy to the external drive for editing.

Mark

[Paul Cascio]

Thanks Alex, for asking questions that I've wwanted to ask but could not word properly, and to John and others for the great explanations. This website is a daily source of knowledge for me.

[John Rofrano]

Originally Posted by Yi Fong Yu

on a related note: ain't most laptops' hard drives@5400 instead of 7200? will 5400rpm work with video editing?

It’s even worse than that. Many laptop drivers are only 4200RPM! These are usually the thinner laptops where they are trying to squeeze every ounce of life out of the battery so they opt for slower drivers.

I’ve captured video directly to my 5200RPM laptop drive without any dropped frames so 5200RPM is fast enough for video. I have no problems with my 7200RPM external firewire drive either. I would just be careful of smaller laptops with 4200RPM drives. They are probably not up to the task.

~jr

[Yi Fong Yu]

does anyone have experience w/7200rpm 100gb laptop editing? =). i'm sure it's a thrill!