Keying with vegas

Mike Oveson · April 17th, 2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

I am having pretty good results keying out an object with fine lines against a blue background. Both are computer generated.

Wait a second. BOTH are computer generated? Why are you bother keying them? If this is some sort of 3D animation you should be able to render with an alpha channel and have a perfect composite, no keying involved. What sort of computer generated media are you working with?

Phil Hamilton · April 17th, 2006, 08:47 PM

I don't have the source - it is from MS Flight Simulator - vehicle against a blue sky. I only have the Mpg from that. Not sure how to strip it out any other way than keying.

I tried what DSE suggested but I'm still ending up with a little fringe around the ship. This - after using a garbage matte. I'm still playing around with it though. I will post again if I can figure out the settings properly to blur that last bit out. tks.

Mike Oveson · April 17th, 2006, 11:03 PM

Ok, that makes much more sense then. Sorry, I just thought you were trying to do something the extremely hard way.

To be honest, I've not had the best success with Vegas' keying. I LOVE Vegas, and most of its tools are just great. But when it comes to keying I stick with After Effects. Much more control. But, this is a Vegas thread and we want to keep it Vegas oriented. So long live Vegas!

Shawn Redford · April 18th, 2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Phil,the order in which you want to do this is:
1. Secondary color corrector to even out the blue
2. Chromablur set to a value of 2.0 (assuming DV source)
3. Chromakey tool
4. Any color correction for the subject in the key itself.

DSE - In your Vegas 5 book's DVD, you have a Green Screen sample file called louise.wmv - and I think you put it in there as an example of a tough shot to key. I tried playing around with a lot of settings to see if I could get the fine hairs on Louise's head to show up properly, but I'm finding that task almost impossible in Vegas 6d - I can get a few hairs but then they fade in and out making it look terrible. So, are you able to get the fine hairs on Louise's head to show up with Serious Magic Ultra 2, and/or can you do it in Vegas - or is this too much to hope for from DV footage that has problems from the start? Thanks, Shawn

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 18th, 2006, 07:30 AM

Shawn, that file is almost impossible to perfectly key, not only because it's DV originated, but because it's a 320 x 240 wmv, making it even more compressed, hence the greater difficulty. If you work with it closely, you shouldn't find the hairs to be difficult as much as trying to avoid the earring that is just about the same color. If you use just a tad of secondary color correction to even out the green, looking at the mask as you do so, you'll significantly help that smooth out.
BTW, Louise is my mom so be nice with that clip. ;-)

Phil Hamilton · April 18th, 2006, 11:23 AM

DSE - Well I am unable to get the jiggedy-jaggies and blue noise off the Jupiter 2 ship on my keying. I think this is because the resolution of the origianl clip was captured in MSFS with FRAPS and therefore the resolution is not all that great - giving the blue background and extra foot hold I believe on the unclean and not very smooth edges.

The masking example I am going to play with some more but I could not tell any difference in doing that vs. just keying the regular shot. I must be doing something wrong - adding the blur IMO should soften the edges some but using the small amounts as suggested in your VASST tutorial don't do the trick. Making the blur higher really jacks with the entire image. Any other thoughts on this?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 18th, 2006, 11:47 AM

if you wanna post a still, I 'll take a crack at it. If you can't get it up today, I won't be able to; we leave for NAB in the morning.

Phil Hamilton · April 18th, 2006, 06:05 PM

Okay Spot - here you go:

http://www.geocities.com/hamiltonp@s...t/jupiter2.jpg

I think it is just an image that is problematic from the get-go. Tks.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 18th, 2006, 06:18 PM

If the jpeg is representative of your originating image (easier to see in png than jpg) then the problem is the codec with which the original image was captured. It's a pretty nasty compression, that's for sure. Easy to key, but you'd need a tight garbage matte, and even that won't cut the forward spill without affecting the landing gear of the ship.
I'd try for a higher quality source.

Phil Hamilton · April 18th, 2006, 06:51 PM

DSE - thanks for looking. I suspected as much. Unfortunately I don't have a better source. For the distance shots it actually looks ok. It just looks bad on the close up. I will post the clip I did as soon as I finish tweaking it.

Phil Hamilton · April 19th, 2006, 05:50 PM

my.omsdal.com/thesky.wmv

Check this out - let me know how the spaceship looks...

Jacob Eirckson · April 19th, 2006, 06:48 PM

hey thats preety cool good job. id say a little too on the generic spaceship side but who cares.

Phil Hamilton · April 20th, 2006, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Eirckson

hey thats preety cool good job. id say a little too on the generic spaceship side but who cares.

Thanks. I really like the Jupiter 2 from Lost in Space - one of my favorits sci-fi ships. The Robot that shoots the energy from his claws is my full-size Lost in Space B9 robot shot in front of a green screen - of course using the pan/crop I resized him to better match the J2 ship.

But the point is that even with poor original spaceship footage - the ship landing in the park across from my house doesn't look half bad - all done in Vegas. Would'nt past muster for a pro-job but for a hobbyist like me it's good. I learned a lot doing this and I appreciate everyone's help and ideas.

Mike Oveson · April 20th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Phil,

I think that's pretty good! Especially for fan film type of material. And having done it all in Vegas?! You've got my respect. Like you said, it wouldn't work for a pro job, but just as hobby stuff this is better than most stuff that's out there. Everyone and their dog tries to do sci-fi stuff (mostly Star Wars) and a lot of it ends up looking like junk. It looked quite nice. I could nit-pick it but I think it would be pointless. Well done, and thank you for posting it.

April 17th, 2006, 08:47 PM	#17
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	I don't have the source - it is from MS Flight Simulator - vehicle against a blue sky. I only have the Mpg from that. Not sure how to strip it out any other way than keying. I tried what DSE suggested but I'm still ending up with a little fringe around the ship. This - after using a garbage matte. I'm still playing around with it though. I will post again if I can figure out the settings properly to blur that last bit out. tks. __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 18th, 2006, 07:30 AM	#20
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Shawn, that file is almost impossible to perfectly key, not only because it's DV originated, but because it's a 320 x 240 wmv, making it even more compressed, hence the greater difficulty. If you work with it closely, you shouldn't find the hairs to be difficult as much as trying to avoid the earring that is just about the same color. If you use just a tad of secondary color correction to even out the green, looking at the mask as you do so, you'll significantly help that smooth out. BTW, Louise is my mom so be nice with that clip. ;-) __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 18th, 2006, 11:23 AM	#21
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	DSE - Well I am unable to get the jiggedy-jaggies and blue noise off the Jupiter 2 ship on my keying. I think this is because the resolution of the origianl clip was captured in MSFS with FRAPS and therefore the resolution is not all that great - giving the blue background and extra foot hold I believe on the unclean and not very smooth edges. The masking example I am going to play with some more but I could not tell any difference in doing that vs. just keying the regular shot. I must be doing something wrong - adding the blur IMO should soften the edges some but using the small amounts as suggested in your VASST tutorial don't do the trick. Making the blur higher really jacks with the entire image. Any other thoughts on this? __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 18th, 2006, 11:47 AM	#22
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	if you wanna post a still, I 'll take a crack at it. If you can't get it up today, I won't be able to; we leave for NAB in the morning. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 18th, 2006, 06:05 PM	#23
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	Okay Spot - here you go: http://www.geocities.com/hamiltonp@s...t/jupiter2.jpg I think it is just an image that is problematic from the get-go. Tks. __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 17th, 2006, 11:03 PM	#18
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	Ok, that makes much more sense then. Sorry, I just thought you were trying to do something the extremely hard way. To be honest, I've not had the best success with Vegas' keying. I LOVE Vegas, and most of its tools are just great. But when it comes to keying I stick with After Effects. Much more control. But, this is a Vegas thread and we want to keep it Vegas oriented. So long live Vegas!

April 18th, 2006, 06:18 PM	#24
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	If the jpeg is representative of your originating image (easier to see in png than jpg) then the problem is the codec with which the original image was captured. It's a pretty nasty compression, that's for sure. Easy to key, but you'd need a tight garbage matte, and even that won't cut the forward spill without affecting the landing gear of the ship. I'd try for a higher quality source. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 18th, 2006, 06:51 PM	#25
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	DSE - thanks for looking. I suspected as much. Unfortunately I don't have a better source. For the distance shots it actually looks ok. It just looks bad on the close up. I will post the clip I did as soon as I finish tweaking it. __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 19th, 2006, 05:50 PM	#26
Phil Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 150	keyed sample.... my.omsdal.com/thesky.wmv Check this out - let me know how the spaceship looks... __________________ Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..."

April 19th, 2006, 06:48 PM	#27
Jacob Eirckson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: washington Posts: 13	hey thats preety cool good job. id say a little too on the generic spaceship side but who cares.

April 20th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#29
Mike Oveson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Ogden, UT Posts: 349	Phil, I think that's pretty good! Especially for fan film type of material. And having done it all in Vegas?! You've got my respect. Like you said, it wouldn't work for a pro job, but just as hobby stuff this is better than most stuff that's out there. Everyone and their dog tries to do sci-fi stuff (mostly Star Wars) and a lot of it ends up looking like junk. It looked quite nice. I could nit-pick it but I think it would be pointless. Well done, and thank you for posting it.