Output to HDDVD/Blueray?

[Paul Kepen]

Has anybody tried using the new blueray burners to output an HDV project? It doesn't appear that there is any software support for this. I am surprise Sony didn't include it in V7. Do we have to wait 'till V8? Just like to know if anyone has tried this or what the workflow is. Thanks - PK

[Ron Arrivillaga]

Not sure about BluRay, but HD-DVD authoring has been possible for a while using Ulead MovieFactory5 and VideoStudio10. HDV to HD-DVD is relatively painless. Obviously, there are no HD-DVD burners yet, but you can burn your HD-DVD project onto DVD-5 or DVD-9 and it will play perfectly in any HD-DVD player. There's a thread on AVS that describes the process:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

[Paul Kepen]

Originally Posted by Ron Arrivillaga

Not sure about BluRay, but HD-DVD authoring has been possible for a while using Ulead MovieFactory5 and VideoStudio10. HDV to HD-DVD is relatively painless. Obviously, there are no HD-DVD burners yet, but you can burn your HD-DVD project onto DVD-5 or DVD-9 and it will play perfectly in any HD-DVD player. There's a thread on AVS that describes the process:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=705146

That is interesting, and thanks for the link. Looks a bit cumbersome, have you tried it? I'm really surprised that Sony (being the big HDV + BlueRay player they are) didn't include that in V7 - along with multi-camera support.

I have never used the Ulead editor, and having learned (somewhat anyways) Vegas,Premiere,Liquid, and Pinnacle Studio - I really don't want to have to learn another-unless its going to be a long time before Vegas or Premiere have a HDDVD/BlueRay solution. If you've got it mastered though, I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks again - PK

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Paul Kepen

That is interesting, and thanks for the link. Looks a bit cumbersome, have you tried it? I'm really surprised that Sony (being the big HDV + BlueRay player they are) didn't include that in V7 - along with multi-camera support.

I have never used the Ulead editor, and having learned (somewhat anyways) Vegas,Premiere,Liquid, and Pinnacle Studio - I really don't want to have to learn another-unless its going to be a long time before Vegas or Premiere have a HDDVD/BlueRay solution. If you've got it mastered though, I'd love to hear more about it. Thanks again - PK

No one has BD authoring that is working at this time, despite many claims of "BluRay support" in marketing messaging, other than BluPrint. Sony Media Software couldn't have launched BD support in Vegas 7 even had all aspects of authoring already been worked out. Google BluPrint and get an idea of what it initially costs. Costs will go down, of course, but Sony Media Software buys licenses from Sony Electronics for certain code just like everyone else does, and it's not cheap...I'm sure we'll see support somewhere down the road reasonably soon, but it's not going to be free, and it's not going to be as robust as BluPrint. Of course, that's only my opinion, but given the cost of BP, I'd wager it's a reasonable assumption. In this case, it would be nice to be incorrect.

[Paul Kepen]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

No one has BD authoring that is working at this time, despite many claims of "BluRay support" in marketing messaging, other than BluPrint. Sony Media Software couldn't have launched BD support in Vegas 7 even had all aspects of authoring already been worked out. Google BluPrint and get an idea of what it initially costs. Costs will go down, of course, but Sony Media Software buys licenses from Sony Electronics for certain code just like everyone else does, and it's not cheap...I'm sure we'll see support somewhere down the road reasonably soon, but it's not going to be free, and it's not going to be as robust as BluPrint. Of course, that's only my opinion, but given the cost of BP, I'd wager it's a reasonable assumption. In this case, it would be nice to be incorrect.

Thanks DSE. I agree, I hope you are incorrect :) Videoguys is sending e-mail on some sort of AVID adon that enables burning to BlueRay. I'm sure you've seen it, and maybe know the details - I just read the quick blurb.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Paul Kepen

Thanks DSE. I agree, I hope you are incorrect :) Videoguys is sending e-mail on some sort of AVID adon that enables burning to BlueRay. I'm sure you've seen it, and maybe know the details - I just read the quick blurb.

Yes, I'm familiar with Avid's new offering, and spent a fair amount of time with it recently. At the time, it wasn't complete and I couldn't burn a disc with it. However, I'm confident that you'll see it fully functioning shortly.

[Steve Mullen]

Actually you can burn BD. You have to buy a Sony VAIO AR270BR or AR290. It includes a minimal version of Ulead MF5.

Using MF5+ I've been moving AC3 5.1 from Vegas to MF5 and then to DVDs with SD resolution. Right now, MF5+ is taking AC3 3/2 and wrongly converting to AC3 3/0.

So the problem isn't likely to be with burning the BD disc, it's getting it to have 5.1. (I can't imagine anyone accepting a BD disc with only stereo.)

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

"burning" BD isn't the same as authoring BD. Transferring data without menus, etc isn't what we're talking about here. There are many apps, some free, that can transfer data and modify the data, but that's not authoring. Nero has a similar solution.
However, since the time that this thread was started, there is now the Sonic offering, a lite version is included in the new Avid Studio Toolkit 5.5.6 release as of last week. It works very nicely; I've authored a disc in it as of yesterday.
I have a Sony 270.
Many discs are authored, and will continue to be authored/mastered in two channel/stereo.

[Kevin Shaw]

Ulead recently reinstated their claim of being able to author both HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs in their marketing literature for Movie Factory Plus, which sells for a mere $79.99.

"Produce next-generation HD DVD and Blu-ray productions* with professional menus, save on Media Center or PC hard drive to play on high-definition playback devices."

http://www.ulead.com/dmf/features_plus.htm

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

Ulead recently reinstated their claim of being able to author both HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs in their marketing literature for Movie Factory Plus, which sells for a mere $79.99.

"Produce next-generation HD DVD and Blu-ray productions* with professional menus, save on Media Center or PC hard drive to play on high-definition playback devices."

http://www.ulead.com/dmf/features_plus.htm

I didn't know that they'd reinstated their claim, but I do have a copy of the software. Unfortunately, it currently isn't working. I anticipate an update to the BurnPack sometime soon, however.

[Kevin Shaw]

It occurs to me to speculate that the inexpensive HD authoring programs may not support every feature of the new disc formats or not offer much control over same, but if $80 software can burn a playable HD disc that works for me.

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

It occurs to me to speculate that the inexpensive HD authoring programs may not support every feature of the new disc formats or not offer much control over same, but if $80 software can burn a playable HD disc that works for me.

Exactly! The vast majority of video delivered for over 35 years, worldwide has been delivered on videotape. Likely close to 99.9% is still delivered this way.

The ability to deliver HD on a $20 optical disc is all that the vast majority of HD users need. In fact, I hate menus. I want to slide a disc in and have it auto-play. Ulead MF5+ is already able to do this -- and for $50.

And, if you do need menus -- it will do it.

With this software, already bundled with the Sony VAIO, there's no need to wait for other complicated solutions and vastly more expensive solutions. (You can buy the VAIO with Premiere if you want -- and can add CineForm for very high-performance. CineForm needs a RAID, and the VAIO laptop has a 240GB RAID.)

The best part, is than ANY NLE software that will export HDV can be used to generate files for input to MF5+. In fact, one can export from FCP, via Ethernet to the VAIO's RAID mounted on your OS X desktop, and then burn the disc.

It's important to understand that no recompression is involved.

My problem is that MF5+ seems to switch AC3 from 3/2 to 3/0. So one gets Dolby with 3 front channels, but only 1 back signal through all rear speakers. I have 7.1 surround so the 1 signal comes out all four rear speakers.

The real deal will come when Avid releases Core 2 Duo Xpress Pro support. IF it runs on the VAIO, you will not need to spend $1300 on their BD software -- which one can use toward a VAIO and V1.

[Michael Jouravlev]

I looked into VMSP specs, and into VPro specs, they mention "capture and edit HDV and AVCHD" but nothing about rendering HD MPEG-2 (or AVC or VC1) for HD-DVD/Blu-Ray on either native media or on regular red-laser disks. Most topics refer to Ulead products.

* Is using MF+ is still the way to go for a Vegas (in particular, VMS) user?
* I see some mentioned that MF worked for them. Did they actually mean MF+?
* MF5+ is still available online, will it be sufficient for authoring HD-DVD disk as HD MPEG-2 from HDV onto regular red-laser DVDs?
* Can I import a file encoded with an arbitrary codec if I have a codec installed, like Lagarith?

EDIT: I just installed TBYB version of MF6+. I was able to import 1440x1080x24p clip encoded with Huffyuv. I could not specify clip's aspect ratio as 16:9, so the MF previewed my project as pillarboxed squished video. This looks awful in a preview window, I don't know how it looks on a real HD-DVD player, I will know in the evening. Heck, they should know that AVI has no AR info in the header, while the video can in fact have PAR different from 1:1.

How does it work with Cineform clips? Does Cineform stores video in an AVI file as well?