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Old July 17th, 2006, 06:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos
From what I understand, however, there is a problem with getting a direct print back to tape from a Cineform edited project, due to legal rights issues. So try the native edit and see if it works well enough for you.
I'm aware of PPro 2.0 lack of Print to Tape support in Canon 24F, in both Cineform and native HDV using Adobe's new Canon Fmode presets...does the print to tape limitation apply to other cameras and frame rates as well?

Interestingly, Cineform have gone rather quiet about when the Print to Tape problem might be resolved. Not sure now if that is because they are dependent on Adobe to fix it first, or if both Cineform and Adobe are having the same issues with licensing?

Paul, I have also been seeing very coarse (much bigger than you'd expect with regular interlace artifact) sawtooth/combing corruption in areas where vertical lines are in motion while trying to burn DVD from Cineform 1080i60 XL H1 material. Cineform has declined to comment on what major bugs they are currently aware of (see posts #23 and higher in: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69723), or what they have incorporated into the build they have slated for release this week. I guess it is time for us all to file our trouble tickets with Cineform tech support.

As far as native performance, at the end of this post:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....72&postcount=4
are some comments I made the other day about native HDV performance.
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Old July 17th, 2006, 11:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer
I'm aware of PPro 2.0 lack of Print to Tape support in Canon 24F, in both Cineform and native HDV using Adobe's new Canon Fmode presets...does the print to tape limitation apply to other cameras and frame rates as well?
Not using that Cineform product, so I don't know.

I apologize, but I took your post as a more basic question, and responded on that basis.

I know I have no problem with PPro 2.0 going to tape with the native edit projects. No problems with DV either.

Regarding editing issues with HDV, that is the rap on HDV editing espoused by many pros. I'm interested here more as a hobbiest, and would likely go with Cineform if it served my purposes for public production purposes. For my purposes, native hdv seems fine. But I don't have as high a standard as broadcast or pro shooters may have. I'm just happy to be playing and learning a bit about HDV.
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Old July 18th, 2006, 09:05 AM   #18
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Just moved from a Mac...

Great stuff guys - very good to know.

Chris/et al - we're getting ready to shoot a full length film using the JVC 100. We just installed Premiere Pro 2 onto our brand new dual chip PC. We have a standard comsumer video card.

Other than the free patch for editing in 24p from Adobe, is there any reason to think that we need anything else (ie - a pro video card, cineform)?

Or can we start digitizing via the firewire port right away?

If these questions seem stupid, & they probably are, remeber I just made the transition to PC and literally doing anything is like pulling teeth!

Thanks for any input -
john
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Old July 18th, 2006, 10:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vincent
Great stuff guys - very good to know.

Chris/et al - we're getting ready to shoot a full length film using the JVC 100. We just installed Premiere Pro 2 onto our brand new dual chip PC. We have a standard comsumer video card.

Other than the free patch for editing in 24p from Adobe, is there any reason to think that we need anything else (ie - a pro video card, cineform)?

Or can we start digitizing via the firewire port right away?

If these questions seem stupid, & they probably are, remeber I just made the transition to PC and literally doing anything is like pulling teeth!

Thanks for any input -
john
evilgeniusentertainment.com
First, I don't know you camera set up. I am using FX1. So I don't know how you set up yours to capture.

Assuming your JVC is HDV, you should be able to capture native HDV in 2.0 through firewire. As far as capture is concerned, it is at near the same bit rate, if that is right word, as DV. So actually capturing the stream is not really a problem. Since you are capturing in Adobe, you will select a project format before you start, and of course that will enable the ability to capture your HDV material.

One thing bad about the capture utility in Premiere and Vegas as well is the lack of scene detection to break down files. I have experimented with a freeware program call HDVSplit which is available on the net. (Google it) The version I have is .70 or better, and it has most of early issues resolved. It has scene detection, breaking each scene into an individual file, and captures the HDV stream. I do not know how that works with you 24p projects, however, and whether whatever flags may be in the stream are preserved.

I am using a PCI express Video card, with 256 mg memory. Months ago, I got the impression that Premiere interacts with the video card to help with the rendering process. I can tell you with my HDV native editing, I get a pretty good performance. The hard part about editing in native HDV is the demand it places on the processor. My dual core AMD 3800+ on a fairly generic mother board works well enough form me. I get reasonalbe render and output times, similar to what I had in DV with a 1.7 Mghz chip on my older system. So I am happy with that.

Again, Cineform is a step up, in that it provides superior color and editing capabilities. Also, it is actually less processor intensive, so if you are not satisfied with HDV native editing, that is your next step. Remember the Aspect files will be about 3 times the size of HDV content, because each frame is rendered individually in the Cineform codec, giving you an .avi file, rather than a .m2t file.
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Old July 18th, 2006, 02:07 PM   #20
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more great info...

Thanks a lot for the response Chris.

Yes, I'll be using the JVC's HDV 24p option. I didn't know it (Pro2) didn't break up the files into scenes. Other than the work around you mentioned and/or Cineform, how would you digitize individual takes? Digitize, then stop after every take and then cue up the tape to the next scene? This is how it used to be done on the old Media 100 system...

I've heard many positives about using Cineform, but having just read today (including this thread) that there may be some real problems printing back down to tape/preparing for a film out, I'm a little leary about buying it.

Are there any problems w/ Pro 2 printing back down to tape (again assuming a HDV dump)?

Thanks again Chris,
john
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Old July 18th, 2006, 02:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Vincent
Thanks a lot for the response Chris.

I've heard many positives about using Cineform, but having just read today (including this thread) that there may be some real problems printing back down to tape/preparing for a film out, I'm a little leary about buying it.

Are there any problems w/ Pro 2 printing back down to tape (again assuming a HDV dump)?

Thanks again Chris,
john
evilgeniusentertainment.com
The only way to handle individual takes is manually, inside PPro 2.0 using HDV, as you suggest, if you want them in individual files.

I've had no problem editing my to my finished project, rendering to a final HDV then printing to tape. I normally follow that process with DV, and continued to do it in HDV. Occasionally in DV I have just rendered a project from the timeline without doing a separte file, to print to tape directly, but I don't recall if I have tried that in HDV mode, or not. I do prefer to make a separte finished product file on the harddrive to render from, so I continue to do that.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 06:41 AM   #22
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Thanks again for the info Chris.

john
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