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Old February 7th, 2013, 04:40 PM   #1
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Mic sugg.

Well someone conveniently walked off with the ntg3 so pretty soon ill be getting another mic or two. I was pretty happy with the ntg3 but I'm thinking I may upgrade to a higher level. Any sugg on a decent mic for interior and a mic for exterior? How much better would a typical $1200 mic be over a rode?

I'm ok with getting another ntg3 but figure if I can get an even better mic for a little more it would be great. May start shooting a feature late spring.

I'm still researching recorders. Have a tascam 100 that has done well but I may upgrade to a better one and use tascam 100 as a backup
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Old February 7th, 2013, 05:57 PM   #2
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Re: Mic sugg.

Unless you're shooting in harsh, outdoor environments, I'd look at the Sanken CS-3e, which works well indoors and out. (I'd choose Sennheiser for really rugged use.)

I really like the pattern of the Sanken - especially that it falls off similarly across the frequency band. It sounded day-and-night better than a conventional shotgun (416) on a loud tradeshow floor. With typical shotguns, you get a constant booming crowd sound in the background that is very unnatural. With the Sanken, you hear the crowd, but it's natural. And that's why it works indoors. The room reverberation won't sound boomy.

I also really like the Sanken sound (though that's a personal taste thing.) It has that unique combination of smoothness and bite. (I've got a couple of COS-11D lavs.)

Will the CS-3e sound better indoors than a Schoeps 641? Most likely not. But you'd need to add a shotgun for outdoor use, which doubles the budget.

In the $1,000 - $1,500 range, my choice would be between the CS-3e and a NTG3 + AT4053b combo. The NTG3 was designed to take a beating, so the combo might be my choice if I'd be slogging through the mud. For sound quality and nominal outdoor use, I'd choose the CS-3e.

(I don't know that the CS-3e isn't rugged; I just know that the signal couplings in higher-end Sennheisers and the NTG3 are designed to be sealed. And if my mic were going to be washed down the river, I'd rather it be the cheaper NTG3 than the more expensive CS-3e. So I'm not knocking the CS-3e outdoors. I just don't know about that aspect of its design.)
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Old February 10th, 2013, 05:35 PM   #3
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Re: Mic sugg.

Thanks for the reply. One question I have since I'm not a sound guy. My budget can allow for a better mic or a better mixer but prob not both. Which one is generally the first choice for getting the better of the two?

The sanken sounds nice so I may get that one but then I'll have to get a cheaper mixer so I def have some research to do. With the money ill be potentially spending I could prob hire a sound person for my next project for similar money. I wouldn't own any sound stuff but they will know more of what they are doing, have equipment, and will allow me the chance to concentrate on camera/directing stuff.

A lot to think about.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #4
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Re: Mic sugg.

Mike, did you register your NTG-3 on the Rode site for its free 10yr warranty?

If so, you can email them that it's been stolen, and its serial no. will be listed here ..

RDE Microphones - Counterfeit Information and Stolen Microphones

Not to say you'll get it returned, but someone else might not get caught by buying your stolen mic.

I agree with Jon and from your description ^, by spending more on a mic, you'll have reached the point of diminishing returns.
ie: any increase in sound quality for you, won't be worth the increased cost.

Yep, get a quote from reputable sound guy with gear, and concentrate on your video.
And he should give you value for money by showing you some good sound tips. Start early, all the best.

Cheers.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 03:45 AM   #5
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Re: Mic sugg.

Going up from the NTG3 I would go to the Sennheiser MKH 8060 - affordable and superb.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 01:53 PM   #6
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Re: Mic sugg.

But would you use the MKH 8060 indoors?

The polar response is that of a standard lobar design, with a significant rear LF acceptance, very different falloff between high and low frequencies.
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/p...rochure_LR.pdf

The Sanken, OTOH, has a small rear lobe and very similar responses to about 4 kHz.
SANKEN MICROPHONE CO .,LTD. | Products [ CS-3e ]

For outdoor and soundstage use, the MKH 8060 might very well be the superior mic. For rugged environments, it might be (one of?) the very best. But I would want an additional indoor mic to go with it. The Sanken, however, is likely the better one-mic solution.

Of course, having the best indoor + best outdoor mic is ideal. But for some, budget restrictions might mean shopping for either two mid-range mics or one top mic. In that case, the Sanken offers unique value.

As always, it depends on the preferred sound. I really like the Sanken's slight scoop and smooth bite. Others might find it boomy and harsh. If so, look elsewhere. :)
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Old February 11th, 2013, 05:46 PM   #7
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Re: Mic sugg.

The 8060 is an 'interference tube' shotgun... so there maybe better choices for some interiors. If I could only have one mic, it would likely be the CS-3. It ain't perfect though and is unforgiving in the hands of the inexperienced.
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Old February 11th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #8
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Re: Mic sugg.

Yeah, the US Sanken rep mentioned that the CS-1, with its wider pattern, is forgiving for novice use and that the tighter pattern of the CS-3e requires pro aim. On the other hand, the CS-3e has less proximity effect than many shotguns (due to the pattern balance over the frequency range), so consistent distance isn't quite as critical. Also, with the frequency falloff fairly consistent, even if the levels vary due to movement, it should be easier to compensate with gain only, rather than needing to dynamically adjust for EQ. So poor aim might cause problems off the card, but the problems might be more salvageable than with many mics.

BTW, the curves look quite good for the MKH-8060, compared to many lobar mics. I haven't used it but would guess that it's also fairly salvageable a bit off axis compared to shotguns with deep lobes at mid-frequencies.
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Old February 12th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #9
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Re: Mic sugg.

"Any sugg on a decent mic for interior and a mic for exterior?"

Mike,

The NTG-3 offers good bang for the buck. It's pattern is a little wider than the 416, but they are very close otherwise.

More here... Ty Ford Audio and Video: Rode NTG-3 Shotgun Mic - Ready For Action

For a thrill ride, try the Schoeps CMIT shotgun:
B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders

For inside work I spec an Audix SCX-1HC
B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Camcorders

or an Audio Technica 4053b,
Audio-Technica AT4053b Hypercardioid Condenser Microphone

if you can't afford a Schoeps cmc641.
Schoeps Colette Series Supercardioid Microphone Set CMC641G SET

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 13th, 2013, 03:24 AM   #10
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Re: Mic sugg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
But would you use the MKH 8060 indoors?
Yes - the product manager at Sennheiser Germany told me that the 8060 is fine for indoor use and much better than earlier shotgun mics.
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Old February 20th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #11
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Re: Mic sugg.

I have a cs3e and although I like everything everyone has said about it, I find the sweet spot is too small and well defined. In other words it's too good at doing its job of rejecting sounds from other than the sweet spot. This leads to unnatural transitions if there is movement or other factors causing the mic not to always be aimed exactly at the actor. Not a big thing, but after a while you notice it.

If you are doing interviews with talking heads that don't move much, especially if the mic has to be far away for some reason, the cs3e is very hard to beat.

I'm looking to supplement with a Schoeps 641 which has a wider sweet spot with a more gentle roll off so that I can capture sound from several voices spaced physically apart.

But if you aren't going to be a sound person yourself, an NTG3 is probably a good price/performance all around boom mic.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 07:21 AM   #12
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Re: Mic sugg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
Yes - the product manager at Sennheiser Germany told me that the 8060 is fine for indoor use and much better than earlier shotgun mics.
John,

Have you used it?

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 03:58 AM   #13
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Re: Mic sugg.

No, other than a quick test when it first came out - I don't use gun mics myself.

That's why I said that it was told to me by Sennheiser's Product Manager (who I know well) when we were discussing all the improvements in the design of the interference tube.

I have a Neumann KMR81i that I bought in the early 1980's, but have only used it a few times.

I have MKH 20, 30, 40, 800, 8020 and 8040, though, so thoroughly understand the range.

I do know most of the microphone designers in Sennheiser, Neumann, Schoeps, Gefell, MBHO and (not quite so well), DPA and AKG.
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Old March 2nd, 2013, 10:32 AM   #14
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Re: Mic sugg.

I had the 8050 here for about 2-3 weeks. I found the 8050 has a "smiley face EQ", big on the bottom and big on the top. The Rycote Invision suspension mounts were a must for getting rid of handling noise but I also didn't like the peaked HF response when most of the voice is in the midrange. When booming from above, I hear a lot of foot noise. I much preferred my Schoeps cmc641 for natural sound.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old March 3rd, 2013, 06:11 AM   #15
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Re: Mic sugg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
I had the 8050 here for about 2-3 weeks. I found the 8050 has a "smiley face EQ", big on the bottom and big on the top. The Rycote Invision suspension mounts were a must for getting rid of handling noise but I also didn't like the peaked HF response when most of the voice is in the midrange. When booming from above, I hear a lot of foot noise. I much preferred my Schoeps cmc641 for natural sound.
For this sort of use the Gefell M310 is also good - hyper-cardioid with a ceramic capsule (that will not expand nor contract with temperature changes and so the diaphragm remains constant) and the phantom is optically coupled so that any nasties in the DC supply do not get into the audio path.

I agree about Rycote InVision suspensions (I use them all the time), but I also use the S-series XLR tail as well, as this prevents any handling noise getting to the microphone via the cable.
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