Holographic Imaging? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Alternative Imaging Methods
DV Info Net is the birthplace of all 35mm adapters.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 29th, 2006, 10:00 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
Holographic Imaging?

I heard that Zacuto is developing an adapter that uses holographic imaging. It's going to cost a few grand, but will have zero to 1/2 stop light loss and the resolution will be almost unchanged.

Anyone have any ideas on how this would work? Sound like BS?
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2006, 10:03 PM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,675
Images: 1
I have a holographic diffuser on order so we'll see how well they work.
__________________
BenWinter.com
Ben Winter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2006, 08:48 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Winter
I have a holographic diffuser on order so we'll see how well they work.
Could you explain how this works?
The only holograms I've seen look like what's on a credit card.
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2006, 09:28 AM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 135
If Ben is getting the POC holographic diffuser (also sold by edmunds http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlineca...=2265&search=1) then there is no magic. They polycarbonate or acrylic sheets that are embossed with a texture to create the diffusing features. The word "holographic" comes from the process by which they mask and etch the tool that embosses the plastic films. The one nice thing about the POC diffusers is they seem to have the sharpest "in focus" capabilities along with the best "bokeh". Their downfall is grain.

http://www.putfile.com/donniewagner2
I uploaded a microscope picture of the POC20 and a short movie shot using it in the letus35

As for the new adapter, I dont know what they may mean by holographic.
Donnie Wagner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2006, 10:56 AM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Québec (Canada)
Posts: 133
I think many 35mm focussing screens are made using holographic diffusers on plastic substrates (+ some coatings).

I have tested the POC10, POC20 and POC30 in a vibrating adapter, and could not get rid of the grain to my satisfaction. It’s too bad, because as Donnie says, sharpness and bokeh are really good.

My guess is that these diffusers could work really well in a spinning adapter, because of faster movement.
__________________
François
Francois Poitras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2006, 08:40 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
Thanks for the explanation. We'll see this fall what Zacuto's solution is.
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
The latest word is that these adapters will be paired to only work with a particular series of Zeiss lenses. Shallow DOF is not achieved with a focusing screen... somehow it is entirely optical.
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2006, 03:14 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 349
Sounds very intriguing, because as far as I know it's not possible to do this optically. You can certainly film the aerial image projected by a lens, but you don't get any of the depth of field properties that come with that lens. It would be a major breakthrough if it could be done without any sort of focusing screen or groundglass, as issues of grain and lightloss would be forever done away with. I hope it can be done, that would be awesome.
Mike Oveson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2006, 11:04 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brunei
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Jankis
The latest word is that these adapters will be paired to only work with a particular series of Zeiss lenses. Shallow DOF is not achieved with a focusing screen... somehow it is entirely optical.
Not sure what you mean. All adaptors work based on optic. All focusing screens get the image projected on them via 35mm lens or any lens available in the market. DOF is part and parcel of projecting an image on a focusing screen. You get it when some are get in focus and some area get out of focus. Am I wrong?
Alex Chong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29th, 2006, 11:17 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Chong
Not sure what you mean. All adaptors work based on optic. All focusing screens get the image projected on them via 35mm lens or any lens available in the market. DOF is part and parcel of projecting an image on a focusing screen. You get it when some are get in focus and some area get out of focus. Am I wrong?
I don't know the details... but there is no focusing screen.
I have no idea how it works. Mirrors and lenses only... I guess. Maybe some magic, too?
I'm just passing along the word.
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2006, 12:34 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brunei
Posts: 140
Not to rain on their parade, I think it may be a dead end with this lazer holographic imaging thingy. If it works, great! love to see footage and picture of the adaptor.

RED is using same principle as mini35 except they are using CMOS in place of the focusing screen. Its simpler because they don't have to vibrate the CMOS sensor. But getting all the info from CMOS and translate and transfer to a recording device like a HDD or DV tape is the hard part. But they are getting close to it. My point is that it takes a billionaire to do this and he still hasn't reach production stage yet. Hmmmm..
Alex Chong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2006, 09:24 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: St. Pete, FL
Posts: 223
I believe you're confusing other people's replies with what I've posted.

And I doubt the holography purportedly used in the upcoming Zacuto adapter will include the laser-printed foil things you buy at the mall. I figure Zacuto's use of the term is restricted to "the reconstruction of a virtual image."
Sam Jankis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30th, 2006, 10:23 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brunei
Posts: 140
Sorry, can get confusing sometimes reading this thread. Am still comfused a little.
Alex Chong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2006, 10:09 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Chong
Not sure what you mean. All adaptors work based on optic. All focusing screens get the image projected on them via 35mm lens or any lens available in the market. DOF is part and parcel of projecting an image on a focusing screen. You get it when some are get in focus and some area get out of focus. Am I wrong?
He means getting the image from the lens to the sensor without ever having to touch a ground glass/focusing screen. "Purely optical" implies that the light is going from the lens to the sensor using only lenses or some other non diffusing optical component.

So in theory light loss would be insignificant, there would be nothing to cause grain or (presumably) distortion of any kind, bokeh would be limited only by the prime lens' optics, and sharpness would be limited only by the resolution of the camera's sensors.

The Holy Grail of DOF adapters, basically.
__________________
~Justine

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams" -Arthur O'Shaunessey (as quoted by Willy Wonka)
Justine Haupt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2006, 11:00 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Chong
RED is using same principle as mini35 except they are using CMOS in place of the focusing screen... My point is that it takes a billionaire to do this and he still hasn't reach production stage yet. Hmmmm..
It doesn't take a billionare -- you can do the same thing with any video camera and a combination of the right tools, a lot of patience, and nerves of steel. All you'd need to do is mount a manual lens at flange distance from the CCD, and secure the lens mount to the video camera.

There is the guy who already did it with his HDV Sony camera a while back...

Incidentally, I'd be skeptical of "holographic" or "aerial" imagery. I don't think they're capable of achieving the same effect, but I could be wrong.
__________________
Realism, anyway, is never exactly the same as reality, and in the cinema it is of necessity faked. -- J-L G
Jim Lafferty is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > Alternative Imaging Methods

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:07 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network