Redrock, Brevis, SGPro Shootout

Ing Poh Hii · January 20th, 2007, 10:41 AM

Thank you very much Phil :D,

so an over-simplified summary so far is:

*setup-time: Brevis (a minute less) > M2/SGPro (15 minutes)
*Edge-to-Edge-Sharpness: SGPro leads by an edge while Brevis can perform well most of the time & M2 can perform well too under "controlled environment"
*professional look: M2 > Brevis > SGPro (if people are willing to pay more for a nice logo yet want a good impression of Pro, then M2 is top of their list).

I think it is good to have a compiled version of your review so people can justify what point is more important to them.

For me, Edge2Edge > setup-time >>> pro-look.

Look forward to more of your personal experience on these great products especially if any chance you can cover those inquiries I emailed you before :).

ta~

David Delaney · January 20th, 2007, 11:41 AM

Phil, do you have grabs from each Adapter of a chart or a scene to compare?

Dennis Wood · January 20th, 2007, 03:49 PM

Couple of points on the edge to edge issue. First there are a few factors to consider when testing for it.

1. Phil did this test with the old version of the Nikon lens mount which we've scrapped. There were too many problems with alignment and the manufacturer simply couldn't bring it up to our requirements as far as quality goes. The new design drops in at it's proper register (but we've left room for fine tuning to the diffuser options if required) and has a much tighter XY tolerance (about .005"). The new design is much better.

2. There are two areas to check for proper axial alignment at the rear of the unit. There is no guess work or measuring, just attention to detail on those points. If the GG is not perfectly perpendicular to the optical axis, under very shallow DOF condtions you could see differential focus edge to edge. If you are framed (see below) for 16:9, you may also be pushing the 35mm image cone.

3. Our 72mm achromat as well as the 16:9 biased imaging adapter actually allow you to exceed the 35mm "standard" horizontal field of view. This means that you can potentially push the envelope of the 35mm image cone. While this is great, not all lenses will perform at their best across a perfectly perpendicular focus plain like this. Fortunately, very few shots using DOF are composed that way, so this is something you can only typically pick out using a focus chart under controlled conditions. We always suggest carefull testing with all your lenses first so that if this is an issue for that lense, you can plan for a more "typical" 35mm format frame.

So basically, if you require perfect edge to edge sharpness, the adapter is very capable of doing this.

Biel Bestue · January 20th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Philip, what about the light loss? which one can operate better in low light conditions?

Phil Bloom · January 20th, 2007, 07:50 PM

If you can all hang on all your questions will be answered in the rest of the article when I get it done.

It is going to have to wait though as my beloved cat "Arnie" the star of my short Kitty Crack died today aged just over a year. One minute he was playing fetch with me the next he was dead.

He was the most human animal I have ever met. Devoted and adorable. My girlfriend and I are devastated. It's hard to explain to non pet lovers but it feels absolutely awful.

Chris Barcellos · January 20th, 2007, 09:01 PM

Sorry to hear that Phil...

David W. Jones · January 20th, 2007, 11:57 PM

Very sorry for your loss Phil...

I know what thats like loosing the most beautiful Rottweiler the good Lord ever created, Katie Bear last year, and near that point once more,
as our cat Amanda is 23 years old,
and our English Mastiff Bear is 11 years old.
All the best to you and your girlfriend!

Chris Hurd · January 21st, 2007, 01:04 AM

Unfortunately I know just how you feel -- my condolences to both of you,

Dennis Wood · January 21st, 2007, 01:49 AM

Phil, we lost our great feline friend Gus the Cat (15 or so years old) last year. My daughter still asks those difficult questions like "how come we can't visit him in heaven"? The little buggers really manage to sneak in as legitimate family members, and are mourned much the same. It's great that you've got the video (and no doubt many pictures) to remind you of your special relationship with him.

Alan Ortiz · January 21st, 2007, 02:17 AM

Wow, well my girlfriend and I just lost a puppy- one that she searched, dwelled, and contemplated getting for a very long time. We were so relieved to have him, and he definately lit up our lives for the short time we had him. While holiday traveling we left him with the original owner, who took great care of him. Unfortunately he ate a poisonous plant that she was unaware she had and died, along with a new puppy of her own. My girlfriend is devasted, and I know its only a dog, but its been a week of the reminder of the fragility of life after one of my residents here at school lost an arm in a car accident, with two friends in the driver and passenger seats dead. Its a broken world. I feel your loss Phil.

-Alan

Wayne Kinney · January 21st, 2007, 06:41 AM

Sorry to hear that Phil.

I have just had some bad news myself, my grandmother passed away last night. She helped me so many times in my life, always thinking of others. She will be greatly missed.

Larry Kamerman · January 21st, 2007, 01:34 PM

Phil, Wayne . . . condolences to both of you.

Phil Bloom · January 21st, 2007, 04:17 PM

its amazing how such a litte thing can become so competely part of your family. He was in all but name a dog. Totally dependent on us, couldnt look after himself, played fetch, ate anything he could get his hands on. The house is very quiet without him!

Really sorry to hear about your nan Wayne. I hope you are OK.

With regards to the shootout. I will finish it during the week

Best

Phil

Ing Poh Hii · January 22nd, 2007, 02:08 AM

I am very sorry to hear that Phil, sometime love is such an as wonderful yet as difficult thing...

I hope you have taken some video of Arnie, it would be a treasured memory...

Tom Mott · January 24th, 2007, 02:32 AM

Hello,
I have been lurking here for a while waiting for the results as many others...
was compelled to post to let you know I was sorry to hear about Arnie the cat. Mine is over twelve years old and still jumping around.

Kitty Crack was great.

Regards,
Tom

January 20th, 2007, 07:50 PM	#95
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	If you can all hang on all your questions will be answered in the rest of the article when I get it done. It is going to have to wait though as my beloved cat "Arnie" the star of my short Kitty Crack died today aged just over a year. One minute he was playing fetch with me the next he was dead. He was the most human animal I have ever met. Devoted and adorable. My girlfriend and I are devastated. It's hard to explain to non pet lovers but it feels absolutely awful. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 20th, 2007, 09:01 PM	#96
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Sorry to hear that Phil... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

January 21st, 2007, 01:04 AM	#98
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Unfortunately I know just how you feel -- my condolences to both of you, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 21st, 2007, 02:17 AM	#100
Alan Ortiz Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 392	life's a gift Wow, well my girlfriend and I just lost a puppy- one that she searched, dwelled, and contemplated getting for a very long time. We were so relieved to have him, and he definately lit up our lives for the short time we had him. While holiday traveling we left him with the original owner, who took great care of him. Unfortunately he ate a poisonous plant that she was unaware she had and died, along with a new puppy of her own. My girlfriend is devasted, and I know its only a dog, but its been a week of the reminder of the fragility of life after one of my residents here at school lost an arm in a car accident, with two friends in the driver and passenger seats dead. Its a broken world. I feel your loss Phil. -Alan

January 21st, 2007, 06:41 AM	#101
Wayne Kinney Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK Posts: 938	Sorry to hear that Phil. I have just had some bad news myself, my grandmother passed away last night. She helped me so many times in my life, always thinking of others. She will be greatly missed. __________________ Thanks, Wayne. Last edited by Wayne Kinney; January 21st, 2007 at 12:37 PM.

January 20th, 2007, 10:41 AM	#91
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	Thank you very much Phil :D, so an over-simplified summary so far is: setup-time: Brevis (a minute less) > M2/SGPro (15 minutes) Edge-to-Edge-Sharpness: SGPro leads by an edge while Brevis can perform well most of the time & M2 can perform well too under "controlled environment" *professional look: M2 > Brevis > SGPro (if people are willing to pay more for a nice logo yet want a good impression of Pro, then M2 is top of their list). I think it is good to have a compiled version of your review so people can justify what point is more important to them. For me, Edge2Edge > setup-time >>> pro-look. Look forward to more of your personal experience on these great products especially if any chance you can cover those inquiries I emailed you before :). ta~

January 20th, 2007, 11:41 AM	#92
David Delaney Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Niagara Ontario Canada Posts: 1,121	Phil, do you have grabs from each Adapter of a chart or a scene to compare?

January 20th, 2007, 03:49 PM	#93
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Couple of points on the edge to edge issue. First there are a few factors to consider when testing for it. 1. Phil did this test with the old version of the Nikon lens mount which we've scrapped. There were too many problems with alignment and the manufacturer simply couldn't bring it up to our requirements as far as quality goes. The new design drops in at it's proper register (but we've left room for fine tuning to the diffuser options if required) and has a much tighter XY tolerance (about .005"). The new design is much better. 2. There are two areas to check for proper axial alignment at the rear of the unit. There is no guess work or measuring, just attention to detail on those points. If the GG is not perfectly perpendicular to the optical axis, under very shallow DOF condtions you could see differential focus edge to edge. If you are framed (see below) for 16:9, you may also be pushing the 35mm image cone. 3. Our 72mm achromat as well as the 16:9 biased imaging adapter actually allow you to exceed the 35mm "standard" horizontal field of view. This means that you can potentially push the envelope of the 35mm image cone. While this is great, not all lenses will perform at their best across a perfectly perpendicular focus plain like this. Fortunately, very few shots using DOF are composed that way, so this is something you can only typically pick out using a focus chart under controlled conditions. We always suggest carefull testing with all your lenses first so that if this is an issue for that lense, you can plan for a more "typical" 35mm format frame. So basically, if you require perfect edge to edge sharpness, the adapter is very capable of doing this.

January 20th, 2007, 04:24 PM	#94
Biel Bestue Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 96	Philip, what about the light loss? which one can operate better in low light conditions?

January 20th, 2007, 11:57 PM	#97
David W. Jones Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Little Rock Posts: 1,383	Very sorry for your loss Phil... I know what thats like loosing the most beautiful Rottweiler the good Lord ever created, Katie Bear last year, and near that point once more, as our cat Amanda is 23 years old, and our English Mastiff Bear is 11 years old. All the best to you and your girlfriend!

January 21st, 2007, 01:49 AM	#99
Dennis Wood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 916	Phil, we lost our great feline friend Gus the Cat (15 or so years old) last year. My daughter still asks those difficult questions like "how come we can't visit him in heaven"? The little buggers really manage to sneak in as legitimate family members, and are mourned much the same. It's great that you've got the video (and no doubt many pictures) to remind you of your special relationship with him.

January 21st, 2007, 01:34 PM	#102
Larry Kamerman Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York,NY Posts: 100	Phil, Wayne . . . condolences to both of you. __________________ www.gencofilms.com

January 21st, 2007, 04:17 PM	#103
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	its amazing how such a litte thing can become so competely part of your family. He was in all but name a dog. Totally dependent on us, couldnt look after himself, played fetch, ate anything he could get his hands on. The house is very quiet without him! Really sorry to hear about your nan Wayne. I hope you are OK. With regards to the shootout. I will finish it during the week Best Phil __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

January 22nd, 2007, 02:08 AM	#104
Ing Poh Hii Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kuching, Malaysia Posts: 104	I am very sorry to hear that Phil, sometime love is such an as wonderful yet as difficult thing... I hope you have taken some video of Arnie, it would be a treasured memory...

January 24th, 2007, 02:32 AM	#105
Tom Mott Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1	Hello, I have been lurking here for a while waiting for the results as many others... was compelled to post to let you know I was sorry to hear about Arnie the cat. Mine is over twelve years old and still jumping around. Kitty Crack was great. Regards, Tom