HDV Deck compatible with A1 "frame" recording

Bill Busby · June 30th, 2007, 01:41 AM

Bill, I use HV-10 for this with no problems at all... so I would think the HV-20 could as well, if not a tad more robust :)

Bill

Andris Krastins · June 30th, 2007, 04:43 AM

Hi, I have a question concerning this,
can't I just use any regular cheap SD camcorder to upload my HDV tape to computer?
It's digital, so it should be the same, no?

Thanks

Lloyd Coleman · June 30th, 2007, 05:52 AM

Andris,

A regular SD camcorder reads/writes an AVI file and cannot read the MPEG format that HD camcorders use. If you want to use a cheaper camera as a deck for HD you must use an HD model. Along with that, you must use a camera/deck that can read the frame rate and format of the camera you are shooting with. "Standard' HD in the USA for cameras (at this level) is 60i and most cameras will be able to read each others tapes. In addition to this you have several aternate frame rates and file structures. For example, besides 24 frames/sec you have Sony and Canon with their own version of progressive footage and PAL cameras that use 50i and 25p, etc. At this point the only decks available for some of these frame rate/file structures are cameras made by the same manufacturer. That is the reason for the original posters question. He is shooting with a Canon camera and shooting Canons version of 24 frames/progressive footage (24f) and wants to know if the cheaper Canon camera that can also shoot/play 24f will read the tapes from the larger A1.

Andris Krastins · June 30th, 2007, 07:41 AM

Thank you for the information, but it's quite an expensive solution if all you need is a deck. :(
I recently bought A1 and have been looking for a deck device.

Mike Gorski · June 30th, 2007, 08:16 AM

I agree and I'm in the same boat. With HDV consumer grade camcorders getting better and prices are falling, owning an older HV10 just for a deck is becoming more affordable. I remember when it was $1100, and now I've seen them from authorized dealers as low as $750 brand new. Whats awesome is if you need a "b" camcorder for some hard to get shots you have a short term solution.

Sam Ren · June 30th, 2007, 10:16 AM

I bought the hv10 from b&h for $699.00 and thats not expensive for a deck+broll... if you do get one buy an extra battery aswell because they dont last very long. also this cam works very well as a deck for the xha1 & plays 24f/30f it just wont record those formats... as far as FCP i wouldnt know because i use PC...

-Sam~!

Bill Pryor · June 30th, 2007, 10:17 AM

The HV10 is down to about $700 from B&H, which is why I'm getting interested. I've been loading footage from the XH A1 but really don't like to do that on a regular basis. Also, I'm looking for a good excuse to have a tiny camera that fits in a jacket pocket. I know the HV20 may be a bit better, but my main use would be as a deck, so I really don't need the 20. Any use of the 10 for shooting would be "snapshot" type video, or maybe using it in situations where a bigger camera would not be allowed, ie., when you need to look like a tourist. In those cases I don't need the 20's mic input, etc.

I understand the 20 does 24p, but outputs it as pulldown, so I don't care much about that. Although...I wonder if you shoot 24p with the HV20 and play it back from your XH A1, would it be captured as real 24p like the XH A1's 24p, or would it still do the pulldown thing?

Matt Buys · July 11th, 2007, 08:34 PM

I know the HV20 can be a deck for the A1, but since you can't properly download 24p without cineform in the HV20, can I take the 24p footage I've shot on the HV20 and download with my buddy's A1 in 24f without worry?

Chris Hurd · July 11th, 2007, 10:16 PM

Playing back an HV20 tape in an XH A1 is not going to change 24P into 24F.

In other words, what happens in the camera head of one camcorder does not change when playing back on another camcorder. Playback doesn't change a recording. Hope this helps,

Mariano Eckerstrand · August 9th, 2007, 05:24 PM

From what I understand the 24f mode on the XHA1 can only be played back on the camera and the HV20/10. Are there any other options out there if I want to shoot to tape and capture without wearing the heads?

At work we have a Sony Z1U along with a Sony HDV deck and the combo works great, especially because we can preview HDV from FCP through the deck and on to the SD Color monitor. I would like to see a similar solution for the Canon cameras. I would like to hear any of your ideas and what you do to capture.

Chris Hurd · August 9th, 2007, 11:10 PM

Frequently asked. Please search before posting.

All Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080i60 video.

However no Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080p24 or 1080p30 video (otherwise known as Frame mode or 24F and 30F). If you don't want to use your XH A1 as a deck, then you'll need either a Canon HV10 or HV20 consumer HDV camcorder to play back Frame mode 24F and 30F video. Hope this helps,

Lonnie Bell · August 12th, 2007, 12:08 PM

was researching and found your concerns, Bill...

curious what you did and what you found?

thanks,
Lonnie

Bill Pryor · August 12th, 2007, 12:18 PM

I haven't done anything yet. Still using the XH A1 for loading, but several friends are also shooting with the same cameras and we might get together and buy a collective little camera to share.

Dan Herrmann · August 15th, 2007, 05:26 AM

h 10 was available from tigerdirect for 460 us

Chris Carroll · August 15th, 2007, 02:03 PM

Thanks, Lloyd, for that very good explanation of the difference between the decks and the proprietary brand issues.

I do believe the HV10 is a fully compatible deck for the XH-A1, and capturing all of its frame rates. However, if someone is purchasing a deck now, I'd recommend the HV20 for the improvements over the HV10. I bought one, and it is a great deck for XH-A1 footage. It does, amazingly, mimic the look of 24f HD from the XHA1, and I was able to use it as a b-camera on a complicated shoot. The two cameras work so well together! HV20 also is able to do full 4:2:2 color space, straight to capture card for compositing green screen shots.

I am really happy with the capabilities of these cameras, and the way they work together. I love that I now have a cheaper deck, and a great b-camera, all in one.

June 30th, 2007, 04:43 AM	#77
Andris Krastins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lielvārde, Latvia Posts: 326	Hi, I have a question concerning this, can't I just use any regular cheap SD camcorder to upload my HDV tape to computer? It's digital, so it should be the same, no? Thanks __________________ Our Fire Films - a free film project.

June 30th, 2007, 07:41 AM	#79
Andris Krastins Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Lielvārde, Latvia Posts: 326	Thank you for the information, but it's quite an expensive solution if all you need is a deck. :( I recently bought A1 and have been looking for a deck device. __________________ Our Fire Films - a free film project.

June 30th, 2007, 10:16 AM	#81
Sam Ren Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 40	Hv10 I bought the hv10 from b&h for $699.00 and thats not expensive for a deck+broll... if you do get one buy an extra battery aswell because they dont last very long. also this cam works very well as a deck for the xha1 & plays 24f/30f it just wont record those formats... as far as FCP i wouldnt know because i use PC... -Sam~!

July 11th, 2007, 08:34 PM	#83
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	A1 deck for HV20 in 24p? I know the HV20 can be a deck for the A1, but since you can't properly download 24p without cineform in the HV20, can I take the 24p footage I've shot on the HV20 and download with my buddy's A1 in 24f without worry?

July 11th, 2007, 10:16 PM	#84
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Playing back an HV20 tape in an XH A1 is not going to change 24P into 24F. In other words, what happens in the camera head of one camcorder does not change when playing back on another camcorder. Playback doesn't change a recording. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 30th, 2007, 01:41 AM	#76
Bill Busby Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 959	Bill, I use HV-10 for this with no problems at all... so I would think the HV-20 could as well, if not a tad more robust :) Bill

June 30th, 2007, 05:52 AM	#78
Lloyd Coleman Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 256	Andris, A regular SD camcorder reads/writes an AVI file and cannot read the MPEG format that HD camcorders use. If you want to use a cheaper camera as a deck for HD you must use an HD model. Along with that, you must use a camera/deck that can read the frame rate and format of the camera you are shooting with. "Standard' HD in the USA for cameras (at this level) is 60i and most cameras will be able to read each others tapes. In addition to this you have several aternate frame rates and file structures. For example, besides 24 frames/sec you have Sony and Canon with their own version of progressive footage and PAL cameras that use 50i and 25p, etc. At this point the only decks available for some of these frame rate/file structures are cameras made by the same manufacturer. That is the reason for the original posters question. He is shooting with a Canon camera and shooting Canons version of 24 frames/progressive footage (24f) and wants to know if the cheaper Canon camera that can also shoot/play 24f will read the tapes from the larger A1.

June 30th, 2007, 08:16 AM	#80
Mike Gorski Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, CA Posts: 163	I agree and I'm in the same boat. With HDV consumer grade camcorders getting better and prices are falling, owning an older HV10 just for a deck is becoming more affordable. I remember when it was $1100, and now I've seen them from authorized dealers as low as $750 brand new. Whats awesome is if you need a "b" camcorder for some hard to get shots you have a short term solution.

June 30th, 2007, 10:17 AM	#82
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	The HV10 is down to about $700 from B&H, which is why I'm getting interested. I've been loading footage from the XH A1 but really don't like to do that on a regular basis. Also, I'm looking for a good excuse to have a tiny camera that fits in a jacket pocket. I know the HV20 may be a bit better, but my main use would be as a deck, so I really don't need the 20. Any use of the 10 for shooting would be "snapshot" type video, or maybe using it in situations where a bigger camera would not be allowed, ie., when you need to look like a tourist. In those cases I don't need the 20's mic input, etc. I understand the 20 does 24p, but outputs it as pulldown, so I don't care much about that. Although...I wonder if you shoot 24p with the HV20 and play it back from your XH A1, would it be captured as real 24p like the XH A1's 24p, or would it still do the pulldown thing?

August 9th, 2007, 05:24 PM	#85
Mariano Eckerstrand Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 27	Deck Options for XHA1? From what I understand the 24f mode on the XHA1 can only be played back on the camera and the HV20/10. Are there any other options out there if I want to shoot to tape and capture without wearing the heads? At work we have a Sony Z1U along with a Sony HDV deck and the combo works great, especially because we can preview HDV from FCP through the deck and on to the SD Color monitor. I would like to see a similar solution for the Canon cameras. I would like to hear any of your ideas and what you do to capture.

August 9th, 2007, 11:10 PM	#86
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Frequently asked. Please search before posting. All Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080i60 video. However no Sony HDV decks will play back Canon 1080p24 or 1080p30 video (otherwise known as Frame mode or 24F and 30F). If you don't want to use your XH A1 as a deck, then you'll need either a Canon HV10 or HV20 consumer HDV camcorder to play back Frame mode 24F and 30F video. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 12th, 2007, 12:08 PM	#87
Lonnie Bell Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV United States Posts: 361	Bill, did you get an HV20 and what did you learn? was researching and found your concerns, Bill... curious what you did and what you found? thanks, Lonnie __________________ Lonnie Bell mamas boy productions Las Vegas, NV

August 12th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#88
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I haven't done anything yet. Still using the XH A1 for loading, but several friends are also shooting with the same cameras and we might get together and buy a collective little camera to share.

August 15th, 2007, 05:26 AM	#89
Dan Herrmann Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: villa park CA Posts: 81	h 10 was available from tigerdirect for 460 us

August 15th, 2007, 02:03 PM	#90
Chris Carroll New Boot Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 9	deck for XHA1 Thanks, Lloyd, for that very good explanation of the difference between the decks and the proprietary brand issues. I do believe the HV10 is a fully compatible deck for the XH-A1, and capturing all of its frame rates. However, if someone is purchasing a deck now, I'd recommend the HV20 for the improvements over the HV10. I bought one, and it is a great deck for XH-A1 footage. It does, amazingly, mimic the look of 24f HD from the XHA1, and I was able to use it as a b-camera on a complicated shoot. The two cameras work so well together! HV20 also is able to do full 4:2:2 color space, straight to capture card for compositing green screen shots. I am really happy with the capabilities of these cameras, and the way they work together. I love that I now have a cheaper deck, and a great b-camera, all in one.