HDV Deck compatible with A1 "frame" recording

Chris Hurd · December 11th, 2006, 03:58 PM

The primary advantage of a deck is that it keeps the camera free for shooting video. A camera that isn't shooting is a camera that isn't earning.

Wade Hanchey · December 11th, 2006, 06:44 PM

From the perspective of an enthusiast, should I be concerned about the extra wear and tear of using my camera as a deck? Of course like James said, I'm only capturing and then I'm done with it. I would say it's no more than a weekly occasion to be used like this.

Laurent Delaroziere · December 11th, 2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade Hanchey

From the perspective of an enthusiast, should I be concerned about the extra wear and tear of using my camera as a deck? Of course like James said, I'm only capturing and then I'm done with it. I would say it's no more than a weekly occasion to be used like this.

use your cam as much as you want. just try to use always the same tapes. if the heads are dirty, clean them carefully. and if one day you have some serious trouble buy a firestore and dont use tapes anymore. anyway for the majority of people they will change their cam before the heads are used-up.

Bill Pryor · December 11th, 2006, 07:09 PM

For personal use, I don't think there's any big issue with using the camera to load your footage. That's what I'm doing. At work we have a DVCAM deck in each suite (as well as Betacam decks), and if we move to some other format, there'll be 2 of those decks too, so the Canon would be out in our particular production environment. But for my own documentary stuff, I'm going to load footage with it. I am using the Panasonic AMQ tapes and I only use a tape one time. I doubt there will be any more than 20 tapes I shoot for the current project, if that many.

When I whine about the lack of a real deck, it's in relation to a production environment. Although the quality of what I'm seeing out of the XH A1 is good enough for our purposes (and we could buy an H1 and a couple of A1s and have enough left over for a couple of decks, if there were any decks, for the price of an XDCAM HD camera alone), we couldn't do that because of the lack of decks. In an ideal world you could load all your footage in advance and then edit it and not need a deck. But in our world, it doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

Bob Harotunian · December 11th, 2006, 07:34 PM

"Pardon my ignorance, but what is the use of an editing deck in digital video?"

It's a matter of wear and tear. I use my cameras for wedding work and I must have confidence in their performance. I just would'nt feel comfortable capturing, rewinding and rolling tape over the heads for hours with a camera that's vital to my work. That's about it.
Bob

Chuck Spaulding · December 11th, 2006, 07:34 PM

So basically there's no professional deck to capture from?

What's wrong with this picture???

Chris Hurd · December 11th, 2006, 07:50 PM

You can use any Sony HDV 1080i deck for capture, as long as it's 60i video that we're talking about. If you plan to use 24F or 30F heavily and you're not comfortable with playing back tapes from the camera or from the little HV10 camcorder-as-a-deck, then you should seriously consider the various available tapeless recording options such as the FireStore.

Or some other camcorder other than Canon HDV, it's up to you.

In all honesty, your tapeless options are less expensive than a deck anyway. As well as being more productive than using a deck, since there's no video capture process involved, thanks to the edit-ready files generated by a tapeless recording solution. But I think we've covered this ground before.

Wade Hanchey · December 11th, 2006, 08:39 PM

Maybe so. But each time I read about it again, something new gets into this dense head of mine.

Alex Leith · December 12th, 2006, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

Wade, just last week I went back for a client into some footage that was 15 years old. We file all our original tapes basically forever. A hard drive isn't a safe place to store original footage.

Of course 15 years is beyond the manufacturer's expected lifespan of many tape brands under normal storage conditions. Beware of sticky shed!

I worked as an archivist for a couple of years, and there is basically no perfect storage solution. Tapes need to be stored at a constant temperature 15 celcus 20% humidity to ensure maximum longevity.

Some tapes may start to lose their cohesive properties in as little as 5 years, especially when stored in humid locations or where the temperature fluctuates. When they start to deteriorate the magnetic layer starts to come away from the substrate, covering your video heads in a layer of magnetic dust and sticky tape glue. When this happens you can start to say "bye-bye" to your heads.

So you cannot *rely* on tapes, just as you cannot rely on DVDs, HDs, CDs, or pretty much any other format. The only way to ensure you have a retrievable backup is to find out the manufacturer's life expectancy for the particular medium you're using; store it in a cool, dry location; and make sure you copy footage onto new media before this lifespan is up.

Peter Ferling · December 12th, 2006, 07:21 AM

Guys, quit getting hung up on the 'deck' thing. If you think more like 'ingest device', then the HV10 makes perfect sense. For HDV it's much cheaper and more compact than a comparable sony deck. Even if canon were to release a so called deck, it would be the guts of an HV10 in larger square case, cost $500 more and not have a lens.

Alex Leith · December 12th, 2006, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

Even if canon were to release a so called deck, it would be the guts of an HV10 in larger square case, cost $500 more and not have a lens.

Yeah, that's it... Where can I get one of those? :-P

Peter Ferling · December 12th, 2006, 08:16 AM

Hmmm. Sounds like a business deal... I could order a truck load of HV10's, gut'em and glue them into shoeboxes and sell for $1500 or more... : )

Stu Siegal · December 26th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Hey all,

Going to buy this to use as a deck with my soon-to-be-ordered XH-A1, have one big question - can this camera be set to downcovert HDV material from the A1 and play it out as DV?

I edit in dv, deliver in dvcam, so this is a biggie.

Looking to purchase tomorrow or Thurs., so any HV10 users who can help me out, much appreciated.

Thanks,

Stu

Jerome Marot · December 26th, 2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Siegal

can this camera be set to downcovert HDV material from the A1 and play it out as DV?

Yes, page 34 of the manual which you can download at:
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=14059

Stu Siegal · December 26th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Thanks Jerome (hadn't even thought of the manual).

December 11th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#31
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	The primary advantage of a deck is that it keeps the camera free for shooting video. A camera that isn't shooting is a camera that isn't earning. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 11th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#37
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	You can use any Sony HDV 1080i deck for capture, as long as it's 60i video that we're talking about. If you plan to use 24F or 30F heavily and you're not comfortable with playing back tapes from the camera or from the little HV10 camcorder-as-a-deck, then you should seriously consider the various available tapeless recording options such as the FireStore. Or some other camcorder other than Canon HDV, it's up to you. In all honesty, your tapeless options are less expensive than a deck anyway. As well as being more productive than using a deck, since there's no video capture process involved, thanks to the edit-ready files generated by a tapeless recording solution. But I think we've covered this ground before. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 26th, 2006, 04:34 PM	#43
Stu Siegal Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 151	HV10 question - timely! Hey all, Going to buy this to use as a deck with my soon-to-be-ordered XH-A1, have one big question - can this camera be set to downcovert HDV material from the A1 and play it out as DV? I edit in dv, deliver in dvcam, so this is a biggie. Looking to purchase tomorrow or Thurs., so any HV10 users who can help me out, much appreciated. Thanks, Stu

December 11th, 2006, 06:44 PM	#32
Wade Hanchey Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 117	From the perspective of an enthusiast, should I be concerned about the extra wear and tear of using my camera as a deck? Of course like James said, I'm only capturing and then I'm done with it. I would say it's no more than a weekly occasion to be used like this.

December 11th, 2006, 07:09 PM	#34
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	For personal use, I don't think there's any big issue with using the camera to load your footage. That's what I'm doing. At work we have a DVCAM deck in each suite (as well as Betacam decks), and if we move to some other format, there'll be 2 of those decks too, so the Canon would be out in our particular production environment. But for my own documentary stuff, I'm going to load footage with it. I am using the Panasonic AMQ tapes and I only use a tape one time. I doubt there will be any more than 20 tapes I shoot for the current project, if that many. When I whine about the lack of a real deck, it's in relation to a production environment. Although the quality of what I'm seeing out of the XH A1 is good enough for our purposes (and we could buy an H1 and a couple of A1s and have enough left over for a couple of decks, if there were any decks, for the price of an XDCAM HD camera alone), we couldn't do that because of the lack of decks. In an ideal world you could load all your footage in advance and then edit it and not need a deck. But in our world, it doesn't work that way, unfortunately.

December 11th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#35
Bob Harotunian Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Somerville, MA Posts: 360	"Pardon my ignorance, but what is the use of an editing deck in digital video?" It's a matter of wear and tear. I use my cameras for wedding work and I must have confidence in their performance. I just would'nt feel comfortable capturing, rewinding and rolling tape over the heads for hours with a camera that's vital to my work. That's about it. Bob

December 11th, 2006, 07:34 PM	#36
Chuck Spaulding Trustee Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks Posts: 1,099	So basically there's no professional deck to capture from? What's wrong with this picture???

December 11th, 2006, 08:39 PM	#38
Wade Hanchey Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 117	Maybe so. But each time I read about it again, something new gets into this dense head of mine.

December 12th, 2006, 07:21 AM	#40
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Guys, quit getting hung up on the 'deck' thing. If you think more like 'ingest device', then the HV10 makes perfect sense. For HDV it's much cheaper and more compact than a comparable sony deck. Even if canon were to release a so called deck, it would be the guts of an HV10 in larger square case, cost $500 more and not have a lens.

December 12th, 2006, 08:16 AM	#42
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Hmmm. Sounds like a business deal... I could order a truck load of HV10's, gut'em and glue them into shoeboxes and sell for $1500 or more... : )

December 26th, 2006, 05:32 PM	#45
Stu Siegal Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 151	Thanks Jerome (hadn't even thought of the manual).