TrueColor configuration for XH A1 - Page 6 at DVinfo.net

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Canon XH Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XH G1S / G1 (with SDI), Canon XH A1S / A1 (without SDI).


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Old March 28th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #76
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True Co9loor Blue Cast

When I use the True Color preset I don't get a blue cast. I really believe in order to get such a blue cast you are either not WB correctly or often enough. I know if you are shooting outdoors the color of light changes continuously and you have to stay after the WB. I mean really stay after it if you want correct or perhaps consistent colors in your video. I don't know a lot about these presets but this True Color one is simply great for me, always consistant and allowing post changes to be applied uniformally to all video shot using it. As for the crushing of the blacks, I just don't see a big difference when adjusting this preset as some have suggested. White balance is a friend and will save you a lot of grief if you use it often.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #77
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When I use the True Color preset I don't get a blue cast. I really believe in order to get such a blue cast you are either not WB correctly or often enough.
Maybe saying how you white balanced as an example would have been helpful. As I stated earlier, I used the white portion of a Photovision One Shot Digital Target to fill the screen.

About a hour ago ago, I went outside and did some testing. I white balanced with the target using the white area only, next grey area only, and finally the entire target. Next I brought the footage into Vegas to see the results. The white only still had a very slight blue cast, but the grey and the combo looked correct. That made me happy. I would be curious if someone could give a reason on why I got those results. Why would the grey work better than the white?

As far as the blacks are concerned, I appreciate your feedback on that. I think they did look ok. I did another test changing the Black from Press to Middle. I liked the results and thought that it allowed the image to look not as dark. Also, it seemed to let me open the aperture a little more.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 01:49 PM   #78
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True Color Preset

Chris, I am talking about white balancing with a white card placed in the light that will light your shoot. I believe the card you are referring to, the Photovision One Shot, allows you to white balance as well as metering and exposure monitoring by viewing the camera's histogram function. However I would try WB using a card or bright white piece of paper placed in the light falling on the subject. The histogram won't help you here but if you learn to rely on it and use for example this true color preset your results will be predictible as well as consistant. At least I believe so.

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Old March 28th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #79
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WB Target for truecolor

Phil, are you suggesting that the photovision target will not work? I would trust the target far more than a random piece of white paper.

BTW, what white card do you use? Can you give me a link? I'm curious if Paolo Ciccone could recommend a target that would work well with his preset.

Side Note: I had been considering getting the WhiBal Gray card.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #80
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This is the kind of card I was referring to. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ist&sku=300868

The grey cards tell the camera how much to expose to get a representation of 18% grey. The WB tells the camera what the color of the light is that is lighting your subject. I'm not suggesting the Photovision will not work. I have never used one but I will say the colors I have managed over the years have been pretty spectacular and accurate (Outdoor Documentaries) and my efforts have relied on WB using a card and balancing often. I'm simply saying try a white balance the way I have suggested and see if it doesn't solve your blue cast problem. I'm betting it will.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #81
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Greetings Everyone,

I am using a professional WB chart and manually white balancing. I am still getting a slight blue cast. I was able to remove some blue via the custom presets. This blue cast is noticable in ALL color temperatures except under tungsten lighting......which makes sense.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 09:08 PM   #82
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Lou, would you mind sharing what presets corrected the blue cast?
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Old March 29th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Paul Mailath View Post
in rereading this it sounds like I actually know what I'm talking about - that's highly unlikely
No, that's exactly it. I suggest to look also at my post about 32-bit color manipulation to get a confirmation of why the process works. Our cameras capture at 8-bits per channel. Setting the camera to capture a neutral image causes the device to use the most out of those poor 8 bits. Once in post you gain in using this approach by being able to tweak those colors, in 32 bit mode, extensively. On the other hand, if you create the look in camera you will not be able to modify much because the look has removed some parts of the spectrum that you cannot re-gain. I'm gonna post something to clarify this concept later on my blog.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 10:29 AM   #84
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Fixing blue cast

All right, there are enough posts about the blue casts. If there is anyone in the SF bay area, I live in Santa Cruz, that has an A1 with blue cast please contact me via PM. We can arrange a meeting and calibrate the A1 to avoid that shift in color. It seems to me that there are two versions of the color matrix in this camera and one is not the same that I used to create TrueColor.
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Old March 29th, 2008, 10:30 AM   #85
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More than 6000!

I just looked at the count. We had more than 6,000 views for this thread in a little more than 10 days! Holy cow!
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Old March 29th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #86
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Paolo,
I think it still could be the erroneous first posting of the preset, that is still plaguing people...
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Old March 29th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #87
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I see. OK, so, if you are using the premade files please verify the parameters after you load it with the version that is posted on my website. Is there a way of deleting the first file posted?
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Old March 29th, 2008, 06:16 PM   #88
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Is truecolor the new king? After Vividrgb?
No it's not, you tried to bring the A1 in color to the JVC. Like the German settings tried to bring the A1 in color with the Sony pd150. Over the top with correcting (+ 40 0r -50..) and looking at the scope, but with black press on.

I don't like this approach, maximal latitude is not with compressed blacks. You really think they have no scope in Canons laboratory? You think that true color is something that exist?

A hype.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #89
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I
... you tried to bring the A1 in color to the JVC.
No, that was not what I did. I used an radio-spectrometer calibrated chart to obtain an objective reading of the camera and made adjustments from there. There was no connection with the JVC HD100.

Quote:
I don't like this approach
Nobody is forcing you to use it. I gave this to people to freely use it and test it. Part of doing this and using the Web is to gain peer review. So far you are the only one who had anything negative to say about it.

Quote:
You really think they have no scope in Canons laboratory?
I have no idea how Canon works or what kind of procedures they use in calibrating the cameras. I know this though: when I released TrueColor for the HD100 it got immediately adopted worldwide by hundreds of shooters. The results they got where much more improved compared to the standard settings. And you would think that JVC has vectorscopes as well. When the HD200 came out JVC asked me to make a TrueColor configuration for the new camera, which uses a different processor. You would think that they have enough expertise, people and equipment to do it themselves and they do but there are evidently other consideration or they would not have provided a full HD250 plus lens to me for a month to come up with the configuration.

It's a well know fact in the industry that all high-end cameras need calibration. See the DSC website for articles about it. In fact ,the DSC Labs charts are used in the industry, both TV and Film, exactly because cameras require calibration. Even expensive ones like the Varicam or the F900. See also "Digital Moviemaking" by Scott Billups for detailed information why this is a reality. You would think that a camera that costs $100,000 would be perfectly ready to go out of the box. If that was the case than DSC would not have any business.

Also, you would wonder why Canon spent time and effort in providing an adjustable color matrix if the factory settings were just fine. It would be much easier and cheaper to not provide any adjustability at all. Canon knows better and provided an incredible amount of adjustability at this price point because it simply makes sense.

TrueColor for the A1 has been verified by other shooters to be a good solution that gives natural skin tones and vivid colors. I gave it away for free. Use it or not, it doesn't make any difference to me but I hope that this effort contributes to the ability of shooters to obtain better images. It's just another tool available to you.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
I used an radio-spectrometer calibrated chart to obtain an objective reading of the camera and made adjustments from there. There was no connection with the JVC HD100.
Yes, you used a DSC card and a scope that is available in almost any studio.
I read on your log that you did it for a client, you do not have an A1, and you did the same on the JVC. I understand that it was not to achieve the same look.

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Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
Nobody is forcing you to use it. I gave this to people to freely use it and test it. Part of doing this and using the Web is to gain peer review. So far you are the only one who had anything negative to say about it.
I read a lot of negative about blue cast. You ask people to consider a donation via paypal. Nothing wrong there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
I have no idea how Canon works or what kind of procedures they use in calibrating the cameras.
Yes, you can calibrate camera's to your personal taste or to match another camera or the circumstances you are working in. You can do that on line in the studio or off line in a memory file you can share with other cam operators. That is normal behavior for many years in professional cams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
Also, you would wonder why Canon spent time and effort in providing an adjustable color matrix if the factory settings were just fine. It would be much easier and cheaper to not provide any adjustability at all. Canon knows better and provided an incredible amount of adjustability at this price point because it simply makes sense.
see above, why it is good to have adjustable color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
TrueColor for the A1 has been verified by other shooters to be a good solution that gives natural skin tones and vivid colors. I gave it away for free. Use it or not, it doesn't make any difference to me but I hope that this effort contributes to the ability of shooters to obtain better images. It's just another tool available to you.
Don't get me wrong, always happy with a free meal! Cook you own meal that will taste best.
But 'true color' does not exist, light temperatures are changing during the recording and so shift the colors. Specially if you alter color in a high area -like you did in the red/green matrix (+40) - you see color shift in a scale like the blue when the temperature is changing.

If you want a setting that gives you 'room to play with' in post CC, better do not crunch the blacks, make that setting in the correction, same with the white roll of, to obtain the max result. Try to maximize the available latitude.

If there was a setting that gives you 'truecolor' it was a setting that was part of any camera, it is not.
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