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Canon XL H Series HDV Camcorders
Canon XL H1S (with SDI), Canon XL H1A (without SDI). Also XL H1.


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Old December 7th, 2005, 06:32 AM   #31
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What is that (at 00:00:02:01)? Bad deinterlacing? And that is not the only one!

http://www.refrat.hu-berlin.de/~filmklub/tom/201.bmp
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Old December 7th, 2005, 07:00 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Bauer
Dan, nice try. NO dice. ;-)

I updated my web site with one short 24F clip using a beta version of Aspect HD 3.4 (new update that supports the H1) within PPro 1.5.1. Same link as yesterday: http://www.geosynchrony.com/scratchpad.htm

Big thanks to David Taylor at Cineform for letting me try the non-public beta!
Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!

-gb-
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Old December 7th, 2005, 07:33 AM   #33
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It is 60i with pulldown,it's in the manual.That's why i want the PAL model - 25p.
Pete,you should do some 30p tests when you have the time,i think it'll look best.
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Old December 7th, 2005, 09:05 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Johan
Michael, the PAL H1 is on the shelf here in Norway. But its rather expensive, 9240 Eur (10800 US$).
So I quess that it should show up in Austria soon.
Per, In Finland the value added tax is 22%, but the price is 8390 euro. However, not available yet.
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Old December 7th, 2005, 11:23 AM   #35
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Attempting to analysis a WMV file is not leading to conclusions about the camera. The camera is placing 24 progressive encoded frames into a transport stream using repeat flags to fit the data into a 60i wrapper. This means a true 24 frame per second can extracted and edited, without compromise, from this camera. There is not need to shoot PAL with this camera to get the best progressive image (that is only true for the Sony Z1.)
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Old December 7th, 2005, 02:23 PM   #36
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lol, that's probably pretty close to the truth! =^).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston
Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!

-gb-
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Old December 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #37
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Thanks for this clip Pete!

I'm wondering - i read the manual of the XL H1 and it says "Can be attached to the HD 20x L IS, 20x L IS, 16x IS II and 16x manual zoom lenses (only for recording in SD mode)." [Page 148]

It doesn't say something about the 3x Zoom Lens XL 3.4–10.2 mm, in spite of that the 3x Lens is shown as compatible lens in the graphic on the page 147. Does this mean that the wide angle lens is able to shoot in the HD mode?

thanks in advance!

(... maybe pete has an 3x and the opportunity to test it...)
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Old December 8th, 2005, 12:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dario Meier
Thanks for this clip Pete!

I'm wondering - i read the manual of the XL H1 and it says "Can be attached to the HD 20x L IS, 20x L IS, 16x IS II and 16x manual zoom lenses (only for recording in SD mode)." [Page 148]

It doesn't say something about the 3x Zoom Lens XL 3.410.2 mm, in spite of that the 3x Lens is shown as compatible lens in the graphic on the page 147. Does this mean that the wide angle lens is able to shoot in the HD mode?

thanks in advance!

(... maybe pete has an 3x and the opportunity to test it...)
No, the 3x is not an HD capable lens. That is likely an oversight in the manual on page 148. The graphic on pg. 147 is correct. For SD recording only.

-gb-
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Old December 8th, 2005, 01:43 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston
Ironically, that loose change is all Pete has left after buying the H1. ;-) Hope you're having fun, Pete!
Yes, it's true. So, Greg, even more ironically, you'll have to buy the beer when you stop over to check out the H1!

-----

Ok, after a lot of effort and much tribulation, I've posted an update to my web site page for video: Scratchpad

Most of my comments are already on the web site, but a couple of points here for those who may not read or download from my site:

Robert N:
As David Newman alluded to, what you're seeing in the Coin Twirl video is motion blur, not interlace artifact. How Canon gets these kind of full-frame images from an interlaced CCD is a mystery to the rest of us -- all they'll say is "DIGIC" which doesn't tell us anything technical. But whatever they're doing, it works! The resolution of the 24F and 30F modes is SLIGHTLY reduced from 60i, but very clean. You'll see the difference between interlace and motion blur very well in the various "Wheel" samples I posted.

David N mentioned WMV as being less than ideal for doing critical analysis of the camera; absolutely right, of course...it was just a quick clip to give you guys SOMETHING to look at before my head hit the pillow the other night. I believe that the WMV frame repeats are due to an encoding error; the repeat frames don't show up in PPro/Aspect, nor do they appear in an MPEG2 file I later encoded.

Pete T:
Again, David Newman knows his business. 25F and 30F would use the same DIGIC processing to output a "segmented progressive frame;" that is, the same type of PAL- or NTSC-compatible 50i or 60i signal that a camera with true progessive CCD would output: two fields that are half of one original image. The difference with 24F is that 3:2 pulldown is put out, just like is done with the XL2 or DVX100. Of course, if one needs PAL, one should get a PAL camera; but if you're in NTSC-land, I don't see any more reason to buy a PAL H1 than I would have for the XL2 or DVX.

In addition to "the Wheel" samples on my web site, I also did informal resolution comparisons with the HD-20x, SD-20x, and 3x lenses. ANYONE ELSE who has the H1 and one or more SD lenses, please double check me and do some rez testing also! I find it almost unbelieveable given the existing dogma about SD lenses not being adequate, but both the SD-20x and the 3x fared quite well. If I haven't screwed up the test, I'll be happy to keep my 3x.

Probably won't do much more dull tests in the near future (way boring!), but the weather is clearing so I'll go out over the next couple of days and shoot some wind-blown trees or something to push the GOP compression.

And lastly, thanks again to Cineform for sharing the beta of Aspect HD 3.4, which they say should be available any day, and for the kind acknowledgement of my efforts here with the XL H1 on the latest rev to David Newman's blog:
http://cineform.blogspot.com/

Happy Holidays!
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Old December 8th, 2005, 02:13 PM   #40
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Is it just me or does the 20x SD lens seems to have less chromatic aberration?

EDIT: The 24f/30f stills look like deintelaced to me.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 05:37 PM   #41
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Pete Bauer, You are doing a really great job here. I thank You very much for Your information.
When You go out filming during the next days, I would be very interested in seeing some people in action (in film-like camera settings).

Pete Tomov, may You describe, what in the 24f/30f stills looks like deinterlaced to You?
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Old December 8th, 2005, 06:42 PM   #42
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Is that really motion blur? The twirling coin looks bitten into for me: http://www.refrat.hu-berlin.de/~filmklub/tom/201.bmp.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 06:48 PM   #43
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Well,open one of the 24f/30f resolution charts and look top left or right.The edges of the arrows look kinna 'boxy'.That's what you get when you use field duplication deinterlace.There is some sort of anti-aliasing but you can still tell.
It's like the frame mode on an xl1s but in this resolution it's harder to notice.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 07:27 PM   #44
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What a pleasant surprise - a Putora chart shot through the 3x shows the same resolution as the H1 20x lens in 30P! I was thinking I was really going to miss that 3x lens. Need to try it on something more exciting than Putora charts, though.

Added a few minutes later: but I have to say that just panning around the room images from the H1 20x are noticeably crisper. Sigh.

Last edited by A. J. deLange; December 8th, 2005 at 08:00 PM.
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Old December 8th, 2005, 09:08 PM   #45
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If you look up close to the stills of charts Pete shot you can see that the F modes are slightly blurrier. I wouldn't say though that it's half of the resolution. It looks like an improved Frame Mode from the XL1/GL2.

Zoom in as much as you can:
http://www.geocities.com/headlesspup...f/24fvs60i.jpg

Also, to people mentioning they will wait for the PAL version because it has 25p, well, it doesn't. As far as I know there's no true progressive modes on this camera at all - You'll have 25F alright, but that will be identical to 24F and 30F in terms of resolution.
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