Pete-Did you get it yet?

Yi Fong Yu · December 9th, 2005, 06:13 PM

hi Pete,

do you know if accessories like the CH910 still workis?

Pete Bauer · December 9th, 2005, 07:05 PM

Yup, it will.

The complete XL H1 accessory list is at the end of the owner's manual (see sticky thread at the top of the forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=55123) and also on the Canon web site (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...modelid=12152), and they do list the dual charger, along with most other existing XL accessories.

The new "G" batteries are rated at 7.4V rather than 7.2, but are compatible with older XL's and of course with the H1, and seem to have an unnaturally long charge capacity (see the user's manual for Canon's specs on this). All the testing I've done so far (Hi1 powered on for at least a couple of hours) and the standard "G" battery is barely off of "full."

Jim Exton · December 13th, 2005, 12:32 PM

Thanks for all the info Pete, good stuff!!

Any chance of getting some high quality still frames? (a la the new HVX stuff?)

Any would be greatly appreciated. Have fun with the camera.

A. J. deLange · December 13th, 2005, 10:01 PM

Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

Greg Boston · December 14th, 2005, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. J. deLange

Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

So A.J., can we assume you are a proud owner of the new H1? If so, congratulations!

-gb-

A. J. deLange · December 14th, 2005, 09:41 AM

Yes, thanks, and I am most impressed with it. After 60 years of looking at NTSC SD it's as if someone has turned the lights on!

Pete Bauer · December 14th, 2005, 10:05 AM

Ok A.J., you tipped your hand...at last there is another DVinfo'er with an H1. CONGRATULATIONS!

And since you're technically far more knowledgeable than I am, GET YOUR BUTT TO WORK and do all kinds of torture tests right away! ;-) If you're able to verify the favorable results of my crude tests, that would be wonderful, and I'm sure that you can do a lot better and more detailed job of it.

Sorry, folks, I've been busy this week with things far less entertaining than playing with my new H1, but should have more time this weekend. Top two on my list are pushing to see what it takes to break the inter-frame (GOP) compression (always a contentious topic when people are talking theory but don't have facts/tests), and simply to get some real-world, non-test clips posted for other folks enjoyment/amusement. A.J., anything you can post will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers and again, congrats!

Johan Forssblad · December 14th, 2005, 02:50 PM

I wonder how efficient the OIS, Optical Image Stabilizer is?
Is it of good advantage if you like to use the camera without tripod?
Is it definitely a feature to have that you should not choose another camera without OIS? I appreciate it in a still camera like my Canon D60 but how good is it for video with panning camera etc?

Kevin Shaw · December 14th, 2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Top two on my list are pushing to see what it takes to break the inter-frame (GOP) compression (always a contentious topic when people are talking theory but don't have facts/tests), and simply to get some real-world, non-test clips posted for other folks enjoyment/amusement.

Pete/AJ: don't forget to test and post examples of the lowlight capabilities.

Regarding breaking the compression, try mounting the camera on a tripod/dolly setup and rolling it across a rough surface. That's the kind of movement which causes trouble on the Sony HDV cameras.

A. J. deLange · December 14th, 2005, 03:25 PM

I'll comment at this point that one of the most impressive things for me about the XL-H1 is that the codec seems to work so well. I did not pick I frames to post because I have no way to tell whether a chosen frame is an I frame, P frame or B frame. Stepping through captured (FCP5) video frame by frame gives no clue as to which frames are which. I tried to "break" the system by putting the camera on a tripod and turning it through 360 degrees as fast as I could. The frames naturally look blurry but the blur appears to be no different from that which you would normally associate with the blur from the shutter speed.

Kevin Shaw · December 14th, 2005, 03:36 PM

A.J. From what I've seen in my own experience and other people's comments, where HDV suffers problems is if the camera experiences a strong vibration or sudden bump. I particularly notice this when my FX1 gets jarred up and down, but a sideways knock should do the same thing. Would be interesting to know if you can replicate this on the XL-H1.

P.S. Best solution is reportedly to insulate the camera from shock and vibration by any means available, like foam or a beanbag or something.

Jim Exton · December 14th, 2005, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. J. deLange

Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

Thank you very much. Beautiful stuff!

Barry Green · December 14th, 2005, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. J. deLange

I'll comment at this point that one of the most impressive things for me about the XL-H1 is that the codec seems to work so well.

It certainly does. At the DV Expo booth, they showed some quite-challenging scenes, rippling water scenes etc., which would have given the Sony some serious challenges, but the Canon showed no ill effects at all. I don't know if it performs better in 60i, but in 24F it certainly seems to be well optimized -- the fact that it's encoding 20% fewer frames, plus that each frame is about 20% softer in detail, plus that the frames get encoded using the more-efficient progressive method rather than the less-efficient interlace method, all add up to the 24F HDV encoding looking very solid.

Greg Boston · December 15th, 2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. J. deLange

Yes, thanks, and I am most impressed with it. After 60 years of looking at NTSC SD it's as if someone has turned the lights on!

That's the same feeling I got after getting an HDTV and watching some of the stuff on PBS and HDNET back in 2002.

-gb-

John Jay · December 15th, 2005, 06:58 AM

Hey Pete,

Many thanks for putting up the rez chart tests - I found them very informative. The notion that the older SD glass would work fine confirms my earlier suspicion when I was asking for a body only version - maybe that will come later as the demand grows.

What I did find most interesting is that the blue and red ghosting ( which was noted on some early tests from France) seems to be present for both the SD and HD glass - however there seems to be none of it present when the SD glass is fitted to the XL2. This would suggest that the glass is not at fault but the problem lies elsewhere.

Looking in Photoshop at just the blue and red channels independently, the ghosting is confirmed as it is quite clearly burnt into the image; the green channel is perfect. It is difficult to fathom but I suspect some low incidence light is bouncing around between some flat surfaces before it gets to the CCDs.

I wonder if other owners can confirm this blue/red ghosting? Also would it be possible to repeat a test at maximum aperture to see if it is any worse?

December 9th, 2005, 06:13 PM	#46
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	hi Pete, do you know if accessories like the CH910 still workis? __________________ bow wow wow

December 9th, 2005, 07:05 PM	#47
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Yup, it will. The complete XL H1 accessory list is at the end of the owner's manual (see sticky thread at the top of the forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=55123) and also on the Canon web site (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...modelid=12152), and they do list the dual charger, along with most other existing XL accessories. The new "G" batteries are rated at 7.4V rather than 7.2, but are compatible with older XL's and of course with the H1, and seem to have an unnaturally long charge capacity (see the user's manual for Canon's specs on this). All the testing I've done so far (Hi1 powered on for at least a couple of hours) and the standard "G" battery is barely off of "full." __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

December 14th, 2005, 10:05 AM	#52
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Ok A.J., you tipped your hand...at last there is another DVinfo'er with an H1. CONGRATULATIONS! And since you're technically far more knowledgeable than I am, GET YOUR BUTT TO WORK and do all kinds of torture tests right away! ;-) If you're able to verify the favorable results of my crude tests, that would be wonderful, and I'm sure that you can do a lot better and more detailed job of it. Sorry, folks, I've been busy this week with things far less entertaining than playing with my new H1, but should have more time this weekend. Top two on my list are pushing to see what it takes to break the inter-frame (GOP) compression (always a contentious topic when people are talking theory but don't have facts/tests), and simply to get some real-world, non-test clips posted for other folks enjoyment/amusement. A.J., anything you can post will be greatly appreciated. Cheers and again, congrats! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

December 14th, 2005, 02:50 PM	#53
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	Is the Optical Image Stabilizer of great advantage? I wonder how efficient the OIS, Optical Image Stabilizer is? Is it of good advantage if you like to use the camera without tripod? Is it definitely a feature to have that you should not choose another camera without OIS? I appreciate it in a still camera like my Canon D60 but how good is it for video with panning camera etc?

December 15th, 2005, 06:58 AM	#60
John Jay Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: US & THEM Posts: 827	Blue and red ghosting Hey Pete, Many thanks for putting up the rez chart tests - I found them very informative. The notion that the older SD glass would work fine confirms my earlier suspicion when I was asking for a body only version - maybe that will come later as the demand grows. What I did find most interesting is that the blue and red ghosting ( which was noted on some early tests from France) seems to be present for both the SD and HD glass - however there seems to be none of it present when the SD glass is fitted to the XL2. This would suggest that the glass is not at fault but the problem lies elsewhere. Looking in Photoshop at just the blue and red channels independently, the ghosting is confirmed as it is quite clearly burnt into the image; the green channel is perfect. It is difficult to fathom but I suspect some low incidence light is bouncing around between some flat surfaces before it gets to the CCDs. I wonder if other owners can confirm this blue/red ghosting? Also would it be possible to repeat a test at maximum aperture to see if it is any worse? __________________ John Jay Beware *PLUGGER-BYTES*

December 13th, 2005, 12:32 PM	#48
Jim Exton Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Memphis Posts: 103	Thanks for all the info Pete, good stuff!! Any chance of getting some high quality still frames? (a la the new HVX stuff?) Any would be greatly appreciated. Have fun with the camera.

December 13th, 2005, 10:01 PM	#49
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	Here are 4 starting at http://www.pbase.com/agamid/image/53530487. All 1080i HDV frame grabs captured to FCP5 and exported via Quick time to JPEGs. Re-sampled to 1920 x 1080 in Photo Shop.

December 14th, 2005, 09:41 AM	#51
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	Yes, thanks, and I am most impressed with it. After 60 years of looking at NTSC SD it's as if someone has turned the lights on!

December 14th, 2005, 03:25 PM	#55
A. J. deLange Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: McLean, VA United States Posts: 749	I'll comment at this point that one of the most impressive things for me about the XL-H1 is that the codec seems to work so well. I did not pick I frames to post because I have no way to tell whether a chosen frame is an I frame, P frame or B frame. Stepping through captured (FCP5) video frame by frame gives no clue as to which frames are which. I tried to "break" the system by putting the camera on a tripod and turning it through 360 degrees as fast as I could. The frames naturally look blurry but the blur appears to be no different from that which you would normally associate with the blur from the shutter speed.

December 14th, 2005, 03:36 PM	#56
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	A.J. From what I've seen in my own experience and other people's comments, where HDV suffers problems is if the camera experiences a strong vibration or sudden bump. I particularly notice this when my FX1 gets jarred up and down, but a sideways knock should do the same thing. Would be interesting to know if you can replicate this on the XL-H1. P.S. Best solution is reportedly to insulate the camera from shock and vibration by any means available, like foam or a beanbag or something.