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Old December 16th, 2005, 06:22 PM   #1
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Possible workaround for SSE

I just have my HD100E this week and I couldn't see the SSE for days tesing in Low Light conditions.
So I was about writing this on the forum the new model has a fix for it.
Suddenly I saw the SSE very clear at 0db, so I started testing what could trigger it...
By testing bit by bit, it turns out changing the white balance (I made User1 preset which toggles between 3200 and 5600) can trigger it and can make it go away again too! Also when the SSE is present, changing the gain up and down makes it fade away. It looks like both left and right processors re-calculate the values.

At least for my camera this is a work around. If it is something reproducable on more cameras, which I hope it is, JVC should be able to fix this in firmware. Are they reading this forum?
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Old December 16th, 2005, 08:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Colemont
If it is something reproducable on more cameras, which I hope it is, JVC should be able to fix this in firmware. Are they reading this forum?
They are reading this forum but whether they are willing (or able) to 'fix' the problem is another question. It would surely make more people buy the camera very quickly. I am convinced that there are many people and companies sitting on the fence, really liking the camera but being reluctant to make the move because of the SSE.
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Old December 17th, 2005, 03:17 AM   #3
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Well since I found a workaround if it pops-up, for me at least it is no issue anymore. Making this thread was not to open a can of worms again about the SSE, because the issue has been magnified too much out of proportion on this forun already.
My intention is to give a workable solution until they upgrade the firmware hopefully. For those who are looking to buy this camera, the camera is a great tool no doubt about it. Just don't expect this is a camera you turn on and click REC. I'm a new user and I know I still have to learn a lot to get the best pictures out of it. And the pictures coming out of it are just awesome.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 12:12 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Colemont
I just have my HD100E this week and I couldn't see the SSE for days tesing in Low Light conditions.
So I was about writing this on the forum the new model has a fix for it.
Suddenly I saw the SSE very clear at 0db, so I started testing what could trigger it...
By testing bit by bit, it turns out changing the white balance (I made User1 preset which toggles between 3200 and 5600) can trigger it and can make it go away again too! Also when the SSE is present, changing the gain up and down makes it fade away. It looks like both left and right processors re-calculate the values.
JVC has claimed simply changing the exposure can cause SSE to go away. I think you may have hit on the reason. Certain changes force recalculations.

Of course, a change could cause it to reappear -- so light is the only real solution.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 06:37 AM   #5
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I can also make it go away by simply turning off and on the unit again.
I have been training my eyes this weekend to detect the SSE on the on-board LCD monitor (on the viewfinder it is more difficult to see the slight difference) with a good monitor next to it to compare. Because at some event-shooting I will not have the option to carry a monitor with me all the time.

Next week I will be filming a musical, we'll see how it goes in dark environment. They will use a lot of UV-cannons with fluorescent objects and clothes. That means I will have no say about the lighting at all.
Any suggestions are welcome, because it will be my first job with the camera. And it's not the easiest task to capture.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 04:45 PM   #6
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Is the split screen not just a matter of implimenting a pixel shift mechanism?
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Old January 6th, 2006, 11:26 AM   #7
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Latest firmware software version?

Just wondering on several questions.

What is the HD100's latest firmware version?

Has the latest version improved the SSE?

I hear there are some concerns about noise in low light.
I realize the HVX200 does not have much sample video, but
how would you compare the noise level to the HVX?

How would you compare the noise level to the Canon XLH1?

From what I've seen of the HD100, it appears clean for low light.
I need to pump this stuff out to a HD monitor.

Do you have to crush the black levels to mask any mpeg artifacts?
How bad are they?


Thanks, Steve
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Old January 6th, 2006, 11:57 AM   #8
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The question is a bit of topic in this thread, but the low light performance and noise is pretty OK. If you just turn on the camera in factory settings and put the gain at +18db, you see of course noise yes.
One of the reasons why I bought this camera is because you can tweak this camera so much.
Tim Dashwood has posted a nice camera-preset which put's the best out of the camera for 'low light' situations without having noise. Me and other people have posted some samples on the forum using that preset.
I would suggest, look them up and see for yourself.

I personally never use 'Gain'. On any camera by the way.

The version number I don't know how to see that on the camera...
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Old January 6th, 2006, 12:05 PM   #9
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Sorry Marc,
I didn't mean to detour the topic, but I thought I'd ask it along with my SSE/firmware question.
I don't plan on using more the +6db gain.
So my real question - is there noise at 0dB, and how is the noise at +6dB?

thanks, Steve
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Old January 6th, 2006, 12:11 PM   #10
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Cranking the gamma to max but maintaining 0dB does create some noise. However, the quality is different than normal gamma at +12dB - even though the sensitivity is about the same.
I find the gamma noise looks more like film grain and video gain looks like typical video gain noise.

BTW, my fix for SSE has always been to set master black under 0. I generally use -1 and do not encounter it. In my scientific tests, a setting of -3 eliminated it in all circumstances. This didn't really work for some other people who were experiencing SSE is brighter situations.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 12:54 PM   #11
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Truth be known. It seems that the SSE effect varies to many different degrees from camera to camera. There is no one sure fire way to eliminate the issue. The bottom line is that JVC has failed to produce a camera that is consistently reliable. If you want to make the hd100 even marginally useful to you, you will need to calibrate it to each individual circumstance. Cranking the gamma, and adjusting the master blacks is all fine and dandy. However, it may work on one hd 100 but not the next. And forget about shooting against flat solid objects-it's almost impossible to avoid the sse in this scenario. The best bet is to avoid low light, and shooting where there are walls in the background. Also avoid shooting into light-like sunsets or neon.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 01:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Henson
Truth be known. It seems that the SSE effect varies to many different degrees from camera to camera. There is no one sure fire way to eliminate the issue.
Changing white balance and/or re-whitebalancing is looking like it takes care of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Henson
And forget about shooting against flat solid objects-it's almost impossible to avoid the sse in this scenario.
Not really. Much of the time, I'm surprised how much I DON'T see it when I'm full well expecting it.

I really kind of disagree with almost everything you've said :-)...but you do sound like you actually own the camera.
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