The Gigantic Mini DV Deck / Camcorder as Deck Thread

[Greg Matty]

Apparently I am not the only person who has had playback issues when using an XL-1 with a Sony deck. A little over a year ago, I could not get a tape in my XL-1 to play back properly in my GVD900. It turned out that it was a tape path alignment problem with the XL-1.

What was so infuriating was that this tape path problem did not crop up until the first time I sent my XL-1 in to the owners club for servicing. I know this caused the problem as tapes shot prior to that "adjusting" would play back just fine in the Sony deck. It was only tapes shot after that that had the problem.

I think the best solution would be for Canon to make a good quality deck like a DSR11. Would anyone care to place a bet on whether or not this will ever happen?

Greg Matty

[Ken Tanaka]

Since Canon has no consumer tape deck line (unlike Sony and Panasonic) I can't imagine how introducing a prosumer/professional line of decks would make any financial sense for Canon. Most tape-based product lines in general are approaching the end of their runs and would certainly not merit devotion of new capital.

[Don Palomaki]

For a GV-Dxxx class MiniDV tape deck with a Canon nameplate, consider getting one of the modest cost 1-CCD camcorders such as the ZR series.

Considering that the GV-Dxxx uses a camcorder-class tape transport mechanism, the camcorder solution should prove adequate for most purposes, and provide a backup camcorder too.

[Jeff Donald]

Any brand and model of VTR can and will need a tape path alignment at some point its lifetime. Think of tape path alignment like a front end alignment for your car. Is there a car made that at some point does not need a front end alignment? When I had my production company in Cincinnati, I would occasionaly help people out by purposely misaligning their tape path so they could copy their old tapes over. Old camcorders can make great playback units if you want to minimize wear and tear on your camera.

Jeff Donald

[ja135321]

Except the gv-d1000 has a 4 inch lcd, and you can edit with it. I thought about getting another digital camera but figured I like this sony deck.

[DaleReeck]

I have an XL-1 and a Canopus DVRex-M1 Editing system. In an effort to avoid putting unnecesary wear on my XL-1's video heads, I am looking for a secondary DV player that can be used for editing, leaving my XL-1 free for just shooting.

The problem is, the cheapest DV player I found was the Sony GDV300 for about $1000. Next was JVC's dual DV/SVHS deck for $1700.

So, being too smart for my own good, I was wondering if the possibility of using a cheap mimi-DV camera like from JVC or Canon to use as a playback machine would work. These things run about $500 and could also double as a backup camera for instances where I don't really want to risk using a $3500 camera.

I figure the difference between a $3500 camera and a $500 camera is mostly optics. The XL-1 has top notch optics plus a bunch of other advanced features. But I'm betting that the DV output signal, regardless of the camera it's coming from, is pretty similar, is it not? 0's and 1's are 0's and 1's no matter what the source.

So, what I am asking is, if I jam an XL-1 produced mini DV tape into one of these cheapie DV cams to play back to my editing system, will I lose anything in quality? In other words, is this a good idea? Again, I would think this would be OK since, unlike an analog signal, a digital output signal would tansfer as it is on the tape without interference or loss in quality from the playback camera.

Sorry for the long post, but if anyone has any ideas about this, please...

[Bill Ravens]

Actually, many people in this forum do exactly what you have thought of doing. It works pretty well and there shouldn't be any loss because DV is a straight file copy from the camera.

I used to do this, myself, until I bought a regular playback deck. There is a big difference in the speed that a playback deck transport operates. It's pretty convenient, but considering a budget, a cheapo DV cam works fine.

[DaleReeck]

Thanks!

Of course, I'd prefer a tape deck like the JVC, but I can't justify spending $1700 on a playback only deck when there are so many other cool things to blow two grand on :)

[Chris Hurd]

You can get a Panasonic AG-DV1000 Mini-DV deck (records, not just playback) for just under $1,000. Otherwise any cheap 1-chip DV camcorder will do... I know that a lot of folks are using something like a $500 Canon ZR20 for this exact purpose. Hope this helps,

[Hixsters]

I logged on looking for advice on a alternitive to using my XL-1 for editing in conjuction with my computer. I want to use it just for shooting. The first post I saw gave some great advice, and I 'll probably go the ZR-10 route and I can save some wear and tear on the XL-1 and use the ZR-10 for shooting and editing.

[DaleReeck]

I was looking at the ZR20 and the JVC GR-DVL120U. The JVC has a little better specs and seemed to get high ratings. After all, I could use it to shoot too, so it doesn't hurt to get a pretty decent camera optics-wise too.

But I'll actually have to go to one of the video stores and check them out in person. Unfortunately, JVC's own website doesn't go into a lot of detail that the manual would and a lot of the other web sites I've seen that sell this have a lot of conflicting or just plain wrong information.

[Hixsters]

I'll check out the Jvc. There is no question abouut the wear and tear on the XL-1. I was outputting some finished video from my U-lead App to the XL-1 mini-dv tape. It's just too much back and forth to get everything the way you want it. I really don't like to hear the XL-1 wizzing away that much. Shooting is one thing, trying to get the perfect edit is another. Will any mini-dv camera work as an output from my computer?I'm going to Beta-SP and regular VHS tape. I hope to upgrade to windows XP and a nice fat hard drive for some huge output files. Right now I can output 10 min. nice and clean and I'm sure I can handle the 18 min. limitation no problem. I can't wait to get my hands on a real deck!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DaleReeck]

I love the XL-1, but the problem with an expensive camera like this, at least for me, is that I get paranoid about it :)

For disk storage, I highly recommend a RAID disk array. Some while ago, I bought a Medea RAID box. It's an external SCSI device that houses four IDE hard drives. There's a controller board in it that converts the IDE drives to the SCSI interface. I currently upgraded it to 160GB (40GBx4) and it's wicked fast. Plus, since it uses cheap standard IDE drives, it's inexpensive to upgrade to some really high capacities.

If you are using the firewire port, any mini DV camcorder should work as input/output to/from a computer. For other ports, like SVGA and standard RCA, it depends on your editing system and your camera. My Canopus DVRex-M1 supports both DV and analog input and output, so it would work for me. Assuming of course that the camera also has both input/output ports for SVGA/RCA. Not all DV cameras have both input and output analog ports. Sometimes it's just output for SVGA. That's why I want to eyeball the cameras myself - to see what each actually has.

Will the hard drive recorders that I've read will be available soon negate the need for the kinds of editing stations being discussed in this thread? I think Sony announced at NAB that they will be coming out soon with a small hard-drive system that will record in tandem with a camera's tape transport.

Have any of you seen or heard of other manufacturers jumping on this bandwagon?

[B. Moore]

Hi,
I had the same concerns $$$$$$$$$$

Got the Canon ZR-10 $399

not only a deck but now I have an extra camera