The Gigantic Mini DV Deck / Camcorder as Deck Thread

Bryan Beasleigh · October 5th, 2002, 03:21 PM

I would certainly recommend the Pana DV1000. I've recently purchased one and it's truly a commercial deck, with a heavy duty transport. The Sony Walkman style decks are consumer grade camera transports and the case is plastic (puffed plastic (tm)). The Sony higher end stuff is well built but it's a lot more money.

This is a can link but allthe info is the same except the price. http://www.panasonic.ca/English/Broadcast/broadcast/dvformat/ag_dv1000p.html

October 9th, 2002, 04:07 AM

what would you guys suggest for a dv/minidv deck? whats the cheapest and whats the best?

Chris Hurd · October 9th, 2002, 05:29 AM

There is no such thing as a "cheap" full-size DV / MiniDV deck.

The least expensive option I know of is a Sony unit which is a dual deck, with Super VHS on one side and full-size DV on the other. This is the WV-DR7 and it is not sold outside of Japan, but Tim Selander, a member here, can export one to you if you're interested. See http://www.tokyonics.com/ for details.

Outside of that, consider the Panasonic AG-DV2000, which accepts both full size and MiniDV cassettes, for about $2000. JVC will (finally) have a full-size DV deck out soon but I don't think it's available just yet. Hope this helps,

Chet Hardin · October 9th, 2002, 12:49 PM

Hey Tim, I am selling my almost new AG-DV 1000. A great deck, it has roughly four hours on the heads. I bought it in july of this year. It is clean and has a flawless finish still.
I am asking $700. BH Photo asks $919 new.

Tim Tonner · October 10th, 2002, 10:48 PM

Thanks Chet....very interested. Re-contact me at tftonner@hotmail.com to discuss details.
Thanks,
Tim Tonner

David Crompton · November 25th, 2002, 06:31 PM

I am producing a DVD for Gallery exhibition and limited release. Most of the imagery is being shot with a GL2. I am now looking for a unit to capture and view material on and I am wondering whether to rent a higher end deck, buy something like the sony video walkman deck or simply buy another basic camera (like the Elura for instance) to take the beating I don't want my GL2 to take...Money is an issue. I would appreciate ANY ideas or comments on this dilemma...

Paul Sedillo · November 25th, 2002, 07:40 PM

Hello David,

Welcome to DVinfo.net!

If money is an issue, you might want to consider a used DV camera. It is the least expensive way to view and capture your footage. There have been several threads on here that have talked about this topic.

The Elura that you mentioned is camera worth looking for. If you do go the second camera route, it is also nice to have a second rig available for B-Roll shots.

David Crompton · November 25th, 2002, 08:39 PM

Thanks Paul,

I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans?

Paul Sedillo · November 25th, 2002, 08:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Crompton : Thanks Paul,

I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans? -->>>

Your welcome David. From what I understand, there should not be a loss of quality if you used a Elura or less expensive camera.

Regarding the difference between heads on an Elura vs. a Sony Video Walkman, I am really not sure.

I am sure that somebody will jump in and help answer this question.

Ken Tanaka · November 25th, 2002, 08:51 PM

Hi David,
Unlike analog formats, dv is dv. That is, it's basically a bitstream much like a file on your computer. So faithful reproduction and transfer diferences aren't an issue regardless of what you use.

Since it looks as if you've already done some research into the issue here there's probably little else I can add. I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. (Much) Better transport performance during capture, designed for the task, etc. Also, camera transports just aren't designed for heavy capture duty. But if you're only planning to transfer, say, a tape a week you might as well just use your camera.

David Crompton · November 25th, 2002, 08:57 PM

What exactly is meant by transfer performance? I assume it is the speed and accuracy with which it moves back and forth?

Ken Tanaka · November 25th, 2002, 09:18 PM

Good question. Speed and accuracy are basically the key characteristics. Tapes fast-forward and rewind much faster in a deck. Cueing positioning is also much faster. That is, decks are designed to find and position to specific frames on a tape with much less thrashing than a camera's transport. Scrubbing forward and backward with a deck also requires much less mechanical wear than with a camera's transport (which is designed with specific motion modes can take a feww seconds to change whenever the tape direction is reversed). Etc.

As I noted, if you're not planning to capture many tapes weekly or monthly and if you normally just grab the whole tape during capture and later slice it up with your editor then I'd recommend that you just use your main camera and save the expense altogether. Such usage is really not going to unduly wear it out.

Ross Milligan · November 26th, 2002, 08:29 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. -->>>

I'm pondering getting a deck rather than using my XL1 while editing. The Panasonic AG-DV1000 is on the list but what does the panel think of the Sony DV1000??? Something that doubles up as a deck AND a field monitor sounds good to me... If Porta-brace make a case for them someone must be using it!!

Regards

Ross

Ken Tanaka · November 26th, 2002, 11:07 AM

The Sony Walkman field decks are nice. But you pay a dear premium for their portability/compact design and the integrated lcd monitor. If those are features you don't need get a more stationary design.

Keith Luken · December 2nd, 2002, 12:54 PM

I went the second cam route. It is not as good as a real deck, but has its advantages when you want to have a knock around cam or a second cam for some stuff. I used the GL2 to shoot a friends wedding. The GL2 was on the tripod, then I left it stationary for the ceremony and then took the seocnd came (ZR45MC) around for some angle shots. Worst problem is the quality difference of the 2 cams, but I played it off as the difference in view poitns, the hand held lower quality being the participants viewpoint where the GL2 was more the "staged" view point. The only thing different I would do would be skip the ZR45 and go for maybe a Sony TRV27 or soemthing as I beleive the image quality would be closer then, I don't think the Canon ZR line (although a popular best seller) holds its own against the Sonys in thew same class.

October 9th, 2002, 05:29 AM	#93
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	There is no such thing as a "cheap" full-size DV / MiniDV deck. The least expensive option I know of is a Sony unit which is a dual deck, with Super VHS on one side and full-size DV on the other. This is the WV-DR7 and it is not sold outside of Japan, but Tim Selander, a member here, can export one to you if you're interested. See http://www.tokyonics.com/ for details. Outside of that, consider the Panasonic AG-DV2000, which accepts both full size and MiniDV cassettes, for about $2000. JVC will (finally) have a full-size DV deck out soon but I don't think it's available just yet. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 9th, 2002, 12:49 PM	#94
Chet Hardin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Troy Ny Posts: 60	Mini-Dv deck Hey Tim, I am selling my almost new AG-DV 1000. A great deck, it has roughly four hours on the heads. I bought it in july of this year. It is clean and has a flawless finish still. I am asking $700. BH Photo asks $919 new.

November 25th, 2002, 06:31 PM	#96
David Crompton New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 17	Deck or second Cam I am producing a DVD for Gallery exhibition and limited release. Most of the imagery is being shot with a GL2. I am now looking for a unit to capture and view material on and I am wondering whether to rent a higher end deck, buy something like the sony video walkman deck or simply buy another basic camera (like the Elura for instance) to take the beating I don't want my GL2 to take...Money is an issue. I would appreciate ANY ideas or comments on this dilemma...

November 25th, 2002, 07:40 PM	#97
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	Hello David, Welcome to DVinfo.net! If money is an issue, you might want to consider a used DV camera. It is the least expensive way to view and capture your footage. There have been several threads on here that have talked about this topic. The Elura that you mentioned is camera worth looking for. If you do go the second camera route, it is also nice to have a second rig available for B-Roll shots. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

November 25th, 2002, 08:49 PM	#99
Paul Sedillo Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by David Crompton : Thanks Paul, I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans? -->>> Your welcome David. From what I understand, there should not be a loss of quality if you used a Elura or less expensive camera. Regarding the difference between heads on an Elura vs. a Sony Video Walkman, I am really not sure. I am sure that somebody will jump in and help answer this question. __________________ Paul Sedillo Image::Studio http://www.image-studio.com Houston, Texas

October 5th, 2002, 03:21 PM	#91
Bryan Beasleigh Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,922	I would certainly recommend the Pana DV1000. I've recently purchased one and it's truly a commercial deck, with a heavy duty transport. The Sony Walkman style decks are consumer grade camera transports and the case is plastic (puffed plastic (tm)). The Sony higher end stuff is well built but it's a lot more money. This is a can link but allthe info is the same except the price. http://www.panasonic.ca/English/Broadcast/broadcast/dvformat/ag_dv1000p.html

October 9th, 2002, 04:07 AM	#92
prooption Posts: n/a	what would you guys suggest for a dv/minidv deck? whats the cheapest and whats the best?

October 10th, 2002, 10:48 PM	#95
Tim Tonner Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: stowe, vt Posts: 45	Thanks Chet....very interested. Re-contact me at tftonner@hotmail.com to discuss details. Thanks, Tim Tonner

November 25th, 2002, 08:39 PM	#98
David Crompton New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 17	Thanks Paul, I have found some information on other threads which as helped me hash out a couple of things. One of my big considerations is whether there might be quality loss using a cheaper camera-Do you know if there is a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and the heads on a GL2? Would there be a significant difference between the heads on the Elura and one of the Sony Video Walkmans?

November 25th, 2002, 08:51 PM	#100
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hi David, Unlike analog formats, dv is dv. That is, it's basically a bitstream much like a file on your computer. So faithful reproduction and transfer diferences aren't an issue regardless of what you use. Since it looks as if you've already done some research into the issue here there's probably little else I can add. I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. (Much) Better transport performance during capture, designed for the task, etc. Also, camera transports just aren't designed for heavy capture duty. But if you're only planning to transfer, say, a tape a week you might as well just use your camera. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

November 25th, 2002, 08:57 PM	#101
David Crompton New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 17	What exactly is meant by transfer performance? I assume it is the speed and accuracy with which it moves back and forth?

November 25th, 2002, 09:18 PM	#102
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Good question. Speed and accuracy are basically the key characteristics. Tapes fast-forward and rewind much faster in a deck. Cueing positioning is also much faster. That is, decks are designed to find and position to specific frames on a tape with much less thrashing than a camera's transport. Scrubbing forward and backward with a deck also requires much less mechanical wear than with a camera's transport (which is designed with specific motion modes can take a feww seconds to change whenever the tape direction is reversed). Etc. As I noted, if you're not planning to capture many tapes weekly or monthly and if you normally just grab the whole tape during capture and later slice it up with your editor then I'd recommend that you just use your main camera and save the expense altogether. Such usage is really not going to unduly wear it out. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

November 26th, 2002, 08:29 AM	#103
Ross Milligan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Scotland UK Posts: 63	<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : I'm a strong advocate for getting an inexpensive deck such as the Panasonic AG-DV1000 or 2000. -->>> I'm pondering getting a deck rather than using my XL1 while editing. The Panasonic AG-DV1000 is on the list but what does the panel think of the Sony DV1000??? Something that doubles up as a deck AND a field monitor sounds good to me... If Porta-brace make a case for them someone must be using it!! Regards Ross

November 26th, 2002, 11:07 AM	#104
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	The Sony Walkman field decks are nice. But you pay a dear premium for their portability/compact design and the integrated lcd monitor. If those are features you don't need get a more stationary design. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 2nd, 2002, 12:54 PM	#105
Keith Luken Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 200	I went the second cam route. It is not as good as a real deck, but has its advantages when you want to have a knock around cam or a second cam for some stuff. I used the GL2 to shoot a friends wedding. The GL2 was on the tripod, then I left it stationary for the ceremony and then took the seocnd came (ZR45MC) around for some angle shots. Worst problem is the quality difference of the 2 cams, but I played it off as the difference in view poitns, the hand held lower quality being the participants viewpoint where the GL2 was more the "staged" view point. The only thing different I would do would be skip the ZR45 and go for maybe a Sony TRV27 or soemthing as I beleive the image quality would be closer then, I don't think the Canon ZR line (although a popular best seller) holds its own against the Sonys in thew same class.