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Old July 30th, 2010, 08:11 PM   #31
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Hi Paul

Shoulder mount cameras in our price range are scarce!!! I just checked my supplier (GMP in NZ) and they have HMC72's for AUS$2380 ... that's not a bad deal at all.

I must admit I'm biased but I'm more than happy with my hardworking pair of 72's and would quite happily buy another set. However bear in mind that they are quite heavy!! (With a Rode Mic mine are 3.1kg!!)

Watch the HD video on a big TV via HDMI and 13mbs more than adequately handles the format!!! however it you want a higher bitrate then you will have to wait for the 82's!!

Chris
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Old August 1st, 2010, 04:53 PM   #32
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Never mind the higher bit rate for now Chris (and I'm no video engineer). I know that a hmc 150 will perform better in low light situations. However, what I'd like to know is the answer to this question: All things being equal; same controlled studio lighting and same subject matter, using a tripod- mounted hmc 70 and hmc 150 side by side...

(1) Will one be able to notice a quality and resolution difference between the two cameras when screened on a 32" tv?

(2) What about if the subject is moving on the set (i.e.walking)? Will the 150 produce better results than the 70 during motion (under equally controlled lighting)?

Your thoughts?
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Old August 1st, 2010, 08:24 PM   #33
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Hi Paul

Technically, the 150 will most certainly be the better camera..you are looking a 1/3" chips against 1/4" chips so if you plugged each camera into 32" TV's via HDMI, would you see a difference....???? If you had a technical setup and had both cameras pointing at a resolution chart then, absolutely yes!!!

If you are filming a general scene with people in it, it really depends how hard you are looking ...If you set up the whole "test" then yes, you would see minute resolution differences and the 152 would naturally come out on top...it HAS to, it is a superior camera!!!

Grab 3 people off the street and ask them to watch some footage and you will probably get varied results..why?? because people watch CONTENT in a movie NOT technical perfection.

Your answer here is VERY simple....Can you afford AUS$4500 or only AUS$2500 ???? If you can afford the 152 then get it...I do weddings so I need two cameras so it made more sense for me to buy TWO 72's for $5000 rather than one 152 for $4500 .... I get awesome results and I'm 100% happy so the decision is yours.

Chris
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Old August 1st, 2010, 10:28 PM   #34
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Thanks Chris

Then, clearly, hmc 72 quality for website streaming will be more than adequate?
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 03:43 AM   #35
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Hi Paul

IMO they are awesome for a lot more than web streaming but your one small issue is that it doesn't shoot progressive. If you have enough business to justify an HMC52 then get one and shoot in 1280x720 30P and you have the perfect format for online providers. If you are uploading SD web video then it doesn't matter.

Both will handle web video fine..just seems a bit of an overkill for web video..surely a little TM700 will be just as good (and cheaper??) Otherwise I would also explore the DSLR market..you can get a Canon 5000D for under a grand and it will shoot awesome web video!!!

Chris
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 06:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Mason View Post
However, what I'd like to know is the answer to this question: All things being equal; same controlled studio lighting and same subject matter, using a tripod- mounted hmc 70 and hmc 150 side by side...

(1) Will one be able to notice a quality and resolution difference between the two cameras when screened on a 32" tv?

(2) What about if the subject is moving on the set (i.e.walking)? Will the 150 produce better results than the 70 during motion (under equally controlled lighting)?
In a studio setting, with good lighting, you'd be hard pressed to pick them apart. So in this situation, it all comes down to what other features you need - as Chris said the HMC70 doesn't have progressive modes, which are preferable for web delivery.

Where you will notice the difference is live events - where lighting is generally dim and there are alot of camera flashes going off. Here, the HMC150 will give a much brighter image due to the 1/3" CCDs, and it will hold up alot better when there's flashes going off all over the place. The HMC70, on the other hand (as well as pretty much any HDV camera) will struggle with flashes because the interframe codec can't handle huge changes like the entire scene suddenly changing brightness, so you end up with a few frames of completely pixelated, blocky, mess.

The only other shoulder mount camera in this price range in the Sony HD1000. It has it's pro's and con's, just like all the other low cost cameras. It records HDV to tape, has a manual focus ring, but no XLR inputs and uses a single CMOS sensor not 3 CCD's. It can be bought in Aus for well under $2000, though.
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 07:37 PM   #37
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Hi John

Good response!!! However I have shot close on 40 weddings now with the 72's and have never ever had a flash issue!! Remember it's a CCD not 3MOS camera. It's good but not great in low light. I have an LED light on the B-Cam after the sun goes down, just for safety and at some receptions you really need it!!

I did extensive research on the HD1000 before changing cams 2 years ago and my advice would be if you are ONLY shooting in bright sunlight then the single chip works well but it's a disaster in low light with an incredible amount of video noise as the gain goes up!!! Read some of the posts in the Sony section here and you will see some examples of low light noise. The 72's handle low light very well considering the chips are only 1/4"

Paul??? when you say "web streaming" what sort of content will you be shooting and where will it be hosted??? Some info here might help you decide on a suitable camera?

Chris
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Old August 2nd, 2010, 11:15 PM   #38
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Hi Chris

Yes, website video clips of around one minute either embedded directly into a client's site; or streaming from another dedicated server. I guess some clients will be happy to have their clips stream via Youtube also.

I'm an ex-commercial photographer; and many old clients are keen on having video clips in their website content. I'm not keen on skimping on the audio either; if these clips are to be produced, then I'd like them done well. I'm wondering whether the GH1 could be the most versatile unit for me rather than a dedicated video camera? The only thing that would bother me about this choice is keeping the damn thing steady during pans...

Clearly, I'm no video expert; but as an old stills pro, I understand magic lighting and can recognise brilliant images when I see them. Meanwhile, you've convinced me that a hmc 72 would not be the best choice considering that I expect to be shooting quite a bit of web content. Also, I'll be staying away from tape cameras.

I'm sure that spending no more than $2kAus will buy me the camera that I need (rather than what I want). Any useful advice on the video front will be appreciated...

Your thoughts?
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 06:31 AM   #39
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Hi Paul

I love the GH1 and it would probably suit you better as a photographer. You can get a host of rigs for DSLR's now that make stability a lot more simple...being light you can also venture into the world of stedicams as the rig is light enough to handhold without your arm dropping off. The only problem with some (like the Canon) is restricted record time but that would worry you either.

Well worth a look I would say unless you are planning to venture into event videos where the 72 is a more versatile unit... I shoot all my weddings on a pair of 72's but for short productions looking at a DSLR is a great idea...you can always record audio on a Zoom H2 or similar so you get excellent vision and audio!!

Chris
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Old August 3rd, 2010, 07:09 PM   #40
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Think you're right about the GH1 Chris; all the reviews and forum posts point to a sensible compromise. Haven't quite stumbled across all the functional details yet though. For instance, are the lenses manual focus (as well as auto)? Also, I do believe that there are issues with zooming...?

Apparently, the audio quality of the GH1 appears to be fine? I would imagine that recording a separate voice-over (with the camera); and later merging in post could take care of a number of website clips?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 01:47 AM   #41
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Hi Paul

Post a message in the appropriate forum here and I'm sure you will get some useful comment!!

The "preferred" tool still seems to be the Canon 7D for "not very rich" but I have been with Panasonic since the year dot and every cam has been a Panasonic (my first was a WVP100 tube camera with a VHSC portable recorder!!!) so when I have the inclination to get a new DSLR it will more than likely be a GH1

Let us know what you discover about the zoom too???? You will love working with a nice shallow DOF!!

Chris
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Old August 4th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #42
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Thanks Chris

There appears to be truck loads of comment on the GH1 on this website; will read through and get my head around the pros and cons.

Meanwhile, my preferred choice has always been the hmc 72 (for lots of reasons). But if you feel that the streaming quality for website clips doesn't really cut the mustard (having 50i); then I guess I'll have to discount it. Are progressive clips that much more noticeably better than interlaced on the web?
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Old August 4th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #43
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Hi Paul

I put all my samples on the web and shoot only 50i Dunno what NLE you are using but in Vegas I just render the clip out to Mp4 and the settings automatically will render it as a progressive file 1280x720

If it was ME, I would still buy the 72 cos I love them to bits!!! They just suit me whereas a DSLR doesn't!!
I like a big camera and can get great handhelds without any issues. I also love the audio system and XLR inputs too.

I purely said that if you are buying a camera specially for web video jobs then a GH1 will do the job. That is a non-sentimental view and a value for money view!!

However if you want a camera for Paul Mason and I were in your shoes I would still buy an HMC72 and yes you will still get great video you can upload to the web but it also gives you the option to do other stuff and it FEELS like a "proper" camera in my opinion and produces a stunning HD image!!

Chris
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Old August 4th, 2010, 10:44 PM   #44
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I think you've persuaded me Chris. My gut instinct was always swaying to the 72 (for over a year now). I believe it still ticks more boxes in the 'plus' column.
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Old August 5th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #45
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Hi Paul

If you need any hints and tips on the HMC's just ask!! If the web jobs start getting too DSLR related then you can always get a GH1 later.

Both my 72's are my babies!! I really enjoy using them!!!

Chris
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