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Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant
The 4K DVX200 plus previous Panasonic Pro Line cams: DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30.


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Old January 6th, 2003, 03:57 PM   #76
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I heard back from a client of mine. The audio on his unit is out of sync also. He spent the weekend doing test with different modes and settings and reports the sync error exists in all the modes. He's not a happy camper. He bought his unit about a month after they first came out.

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Old January 6th, 2003, 08:07 PM   #77
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Are people capturing from the cam or seperate deck. I did my captures from a JVC deck and did not notice any sync errors, though have not done a formal sync?
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Old January 6th, 2003, 09:02 PM   #78
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Just did a very quick test in both 24p modes. I simply recorded my hands clapping a distinct beat, even snapping my fingers here and there, but failed to see a sync problem. Keep in mind that I'm new to all this and so perhaps my eyes and ears are fooling me. Was the sync problem clearly evident? I clapped and so on for about a minute in each mode, 24p and 24p Advanced. Watched the playback on the LCD and monitored the audio using my consumer grade Koss headphones connected to the AG-DVX100. I'm gonna do the test again and watch it on a production monitor and some reference speakers once I can buy them. Any other suggestions to try?

(Got my AG-DVX100 from Zotz Digital)
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Old January 6th, 2003, 10:22 PM   #79
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According to DVfilm.com, only "some" of the DVX's have this sync problem. Looks like "some" will be getting recalled. I haven't noticed any problems with mine yet, but I've been mostly concentrating on image. It does seem evident that many do in fact have a sync problem. I'm hoping someone from Panasonic will comment.

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Old January 6th, 2003, 10:56 PM   #80
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Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

Being out of sync was pretty easily seen on playback when we had a clapboard in the shot. ('Clack' occurring before fully closed.) It was a bit difficult to discern on dialogue shots, other than the feeling that something is not quite right.

I have not seen/tried just clapping hands myself yet, but I presumed that the results would be the same. I think as long as you have some distinct sound 'event' with a clear, corresponding visual reference you should be able to tell what is going on. Try capturing the footage to see if the waveform lines up with the picture or not.

Regarding capturing, I personally have not yet captured using the DVX100 as a deck - but I have gotten the same results (audio early by 2 frames in 24pa) when capturing from both Canon and Sony cameras.

As for it being a limited problem I haven't heard enough reports from the "I'm in sync" camp to be sure yet. (Of course there are plenty of people not mentioning it as a problem either way, but I had initially chalked this up to many shooting in 30p/60i. Now with some reports that there may be sync problems in these modes as well, I'm not sure what to think...)

Skip, Stephen, or any others - have you specifically tested your cameras in all of the modes and found it NOT to be a problem? The only report I've heard thus far that specifically certified the camera as being in sync was Noah's (Kadner.) Although I didn't ever get a confirmation from him on what mode(s) he was referring to.

I'd be interested in continuing to build the sample 'pool'. Please let us know what results you confirm.

Thanks again,
Clayton
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Old January 6th, 2003, 11:37 PM   #81
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Sadly, unless I've got something set up wrong in FCP3, mine appears to be about 2 frames out of sync in 60i, 24p, and 30p. Audio appears to arrive early. I hope this is an easy and painless fix, ie. don't have to ship the cam off. Better yet, I hope Panasonic actually does something about it. It's kind of hard to tell it's out unless I step through the audio wave while watching the picture frame by frame in FCP. For those of you who don't think you have the problem (I didn't think I did) do the clap test and step through frame by frame.

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Old January 7th, 2003, 12:03 AM   #82
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Thanks for confirming/posting your findings, Skip.

Sorry for the revelation, but it may be better that it is something consistent rather than a build issue - if the latter, who knows what else could be amiss ;)

As for an 'easy and painless fix', it is not a huge problem to address in post (albeit an annoying one) if you know to expect it. My biggest complaint so far (aside from really wanting a camera that shoots in sync all on its own...) comes from not being advised of it from the start. I burnt quite a bit of time tracking it down to the less than likely source.

Thanks again,
Clayton
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Old January 7th, 2003, 12:11 AM   #83
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Yeah, I can't believe I hadn't noticed it yet. Honestly, I really don't think this is an acceptable flaw, documented or not. At first, as I was playing the test footage back, and then again as I was capturing, it looked in-sync. Not until I stepped through did I notice it. Before I begin to get all bent out of shape, can you think of something I may have setup wrong in FCP3 that could account for this 2 frame sync problem? I'm going to post this over at 2-pop as well. I can live with no AF or gain in p modes, and I can live with occassional fringe, but everything having to be re-sync'd is completely unacceptable if you ask me. What's worse is that frickin' troll is gonna love this finding. ;-)

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Old January 7th, 2003, 12:22 AM   #84
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I have used my DVX100 for 15 hours without seeing it!
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Old January 7th, 2003, 09:22 AM   #85
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My client tested for sync using both the camera to playback and a Sony DSR 30. The sync error was noted with both methods of capture. I don't think this is a very big issue. The sync is consistently off the same amount and it is easy enough to adjust for. It may require some additional rendering time depending on your NLE.

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Old January 7th, 2003, 09:31 AM   #86
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Do you happen to know if there's a way to make FCP3 automatically adjust the audio by 2 frames for all my captures? There's a setting in FCP3 to auto adjust sync for clips over 5mins, but you can set the time to whatever you want. I wonder if it were set to "0" if it'd adjust this 2 frame issue? I guessing most likely not since I believe this has more to do with audio drift over time. The DVX's problem seems to be consistent from the get go. Any suggestions? I really don't want to have to hand sync everything I shoot with this cam.

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Old January 7th, 2003, 09:47 AM   #87
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There is no way to automatically apply a compensation during the capture phase with FCP. Sync adjust works for the drift problem. It forces FCP to count the frequency, not assume it is 48Khz. The problem with the DVX100 is that it is being recorded out of sync because of a delay in the video (probably due to some digital processing).

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Old January 7th, 2003, 03:09 PM   #88
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<<<-- Originally posted by Skip Hunt : Honestly, I really don't think this is an acceptable flaw, documented or not ... I can live with no AF or gain in p modes, and I can live with occassional fringe, but everything having to be re-sync'd is completely unacceptable if you ask me

Skip Hunt -->>>

Hi Skip,

I whole heartedly agree - it's not acceptable given that it was not was expected upon purchase. (There in is my primary complaint with it not being documented.)

For a lot of projects, the effects are limited. Syncing selected takes from a narrative project is old habit for some. But for projects with a large amount of footage (especially in many small pieces) it would be a nightmare. Something you shouldn't have to discover for yourself no less.

So, again I am most dissappointed that the people who have picked up this camera thus far could not make the decision whether the trouble was worth it or not up front. (That is assumming it is a universal problem, - as mentioned before I think the implications are best if it is not a random build issue.)

Perhaps I ought to give Panasonic a little more benefit of the doubt. Sure would help if they would chime in on the subject...)

Clayton
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Old January 8th, 2003, 05:17 AM   #89
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Shot more hand clapping sequences in 24PA and the default 60. Used Avid Xpress DV 3.5 to view the footage, and with the audio scrub feature it appears the audio arrives before the hands clap together. But I don't know enough about Avid to check out the actual wavelength or view a graph of somekind the way other users do - could someone tell me how I could go about verifying for sure?

All in all, I'm not sure what to make of this. I do appreciate the work of those who discovered this potential issue - understanding this exists is much more valuable then having to find out later. On the other hand - and once again this is probably due to the fact that my eyes and ears are unused to seeing such discrepancies in DV yet - I really can't tell the difference just by watching alone.

Then there is this entry written by Steve Mullen over on the 2-pop AG-DVX100 forum (in a thread started by Clayton):

http://2-pop.5thavehosting.com/cgi-b...cgi?read=36352

Which gives me some assurance that this isn't entirely a bad thing?
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Old January 8th, 2003, 05:49 AM   #90
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Was perusing Vinson Watson's AG-DVX100 review and saw this:

"Something to remember; to allow the DVX100 a few seconds to to sync sound when you switch into 24p"

Wonder what he meant by this exactly? Will waiting for a bit after changing into one of the 24p modes help sync?
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