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Old January 11th, 2017, 12:18 AM   #76
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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lol,...Oh John, I was only dramatically joking in the corniest way. ;-)
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I know, and so was I and perhaps even more corny than you, I reckon :-)

(do you think we might get banned for being frivolous?)
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Old January 11th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #77
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I have to buy it, I pretty much have no choice in the matter. Really, how in the heck does anybody expect me to resist so much for so little?
You remind me a bit of Gollem in LOTR :)

I will sit this one out to see how the camera performs IRL, I have a g80 on order (which cost me 640euro excl vat) to combine with my gx80 (which is 415 euro) which will be my main 2 camera's for all my handheld work and then I have the gh4 on a gimbal for the weddings that I do in 2017. With the exception of the GH5 current Panasonic dslr's are just so dirt cheap yet pack a lot of punch that they are the best investment I have made the past year. IBIS has allowed me to shoot in a much faster, lighter and different way (no more dragging a monopod around) that it has improved the overal look of the weddings I shoot solo and gave me enough confidence to charge more for my work. So a minimal investment and a max profit, what's not to like about that? :)

I expect the gh5 to go down in price a few months after it hit's the streets and then I might consider to buy it end of this year or beginning 2018.

I see many people getting exited about the codec but for me the IBIS is the most valuable part, being able to shoot in 4:2:2 10 bit won't make any difference in the type of work I do, vlog I don't care about and 4K 50p would be usable but only for the slowmotion which I sometimes use in my trailers. Currently I only use 4K if I want to be able to reframe in post, otherwise I prefer to shoot 1080p 50p all the time. The dual card recording is then again a valuable safety feature and the add on xlr box that takes power true the hotshoe and doesn't require any cables to connect to the camera will be useful as well in certain scenarios. The fact it can shoot in 12800 iso now and by the looks of it doesn't produce more noise then the gh4 makes at 6400 iso is a big plus as well considering all the dark venues I end up in. The 180fps won't be used that much, I never even used 96fps on the gh4, but I guess that in some cases it might be useful. All in all Panasonic has made a considerable improvement over the GH4, if only they could improve the autofocus.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 06:32 AM   #78
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I see many people getting exited about the codec but for me the IBIS is the most valuable part, being able to shoot in 4:2:2 10 bit won't make any difference in the type of work I do, vlog I don't care about and 4K 50p would be usable but only for the slowmotion which I sometimes use in my trailers.
To be fair, IBIS is hardly a new feature, so its understandable that the codec gets the attention here, and whilst not something you personally need - it comes as a useful feature for some of the things I shoot in my work. I'll be buying the GH5 as soon as its out and it'll sit as the crown jewel amongst my GX80, G80 and 2 GH4Rs.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 06:40 AM   #79
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

For the gh5 ibis is a new feature, compared to the gh4 it's like night and day when you shoot with unstabilized primes which makes it a very useful and welcome feature. Beside the 4K50p, what advantages would the new codec give you?
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Old January 11th, 2017, 07:05 AM   #80
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

I think that a majority of people that get exited about the codec have no idea how to get the most of it, it's just a few that actually need it and know how to manipulate it, the rest just wants to have it because they think their footage will become magically so much better, I have seen enough poorly graded log footage to prove my point. When you combine the GH5 with other camera's, like the g80, gx85 or gh4 I also wonder how that will turn out when you shoot vlog, spend a lot of time grading it and then find out it doesn't match any of your other camera's footage. You can also ask yourself if it's worth all the extra time grading your footage when you have to shoot and edit a wedding every weekend. Same goes for the very high bitrates, I always shoot at 50mbs for HD which I find a very effective bitrate, never crossed my mind to shoot at 200mbs because I can't see the difference from a normal viewing distance. Same applies for 4K, 100mbs has been plenty for my needs, not saying that high bitrates are useless, I"m sure some will benefit from fast motion and scenes with high detail but again for the majority of users that end up with the GH5 most of the bitrates will be overkill.
Just to have Cliff as an example, he certainly looks overly exited over the camera's specifications that he has preordered a gh5, but I would like to see what he actually thinks the camera does for him that his a7sII cannot do.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 07:34 AM   #81
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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I think that a majority of people that get exited about the codec have no idea how to get the most of it, it's just a few that actually need it and know how to manipulate it, the rest just wants to have it because they think their footage will become magically so much better, I have seen enough poorly graded log footage to prove my point.
I agree that many here will invest in the GH5 for the reasons you mention; and others simply for the boast factor. However 4:2:2 isn't just about vLog, if I was doing green screen work and I occasionally do, it can be very useful. I have also become very interested in colour grading and was given a book for Xmas on it so I can pursue this even further. I agree it can be done badly but with practise and skill, it can be done well and the codec will make a difference. I was disappointed last year in trying to colour grade some Trailers to see banding in some shots even with minor grades. It's flat walls and blue skies that suffer badly and the image can quickly fall apart in 8 bit.

Like you, I do not intend to shoot all my Weddings in maximum codec and bitrate. That would be impossible given the number I do. It would be useful for some select shots only in my Wedding work. I wouldn't really use it to balance with other cameras in a multi camera filming. I have enough issues using different lenses where some footage looks better depending on which lens I use. However there are plenty of shots in bright and high contrast situations where I feel footage would benefit from some extra DR and with the GH5's new codecs allow me an easier time in grading to compensate.

Plus I do some Promo videos where a higher codec for good colour grading can be useful. Some clients are after a particular look they've seen in another video and that can be hard to achieve sometimes with 8 bit 4:2:0

I did experiment with vLog last year but gave up as I couldn't grade it to my satisfaction. I've enjoyed more success recently after a thread on the GH4 forum led me to the Panasonic LUT. I was very pleased with the results and how quickly I achieved them with a little further tweaking. The only thing holding me back from benefiting from the extra DR is the weaker codec. So I look forward to the GH5 allowing me to pursue this further.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 07:40 AM   #82
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Vlog L

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
I think that a majority of people that get exited about the codec have no idea how to get the most of it, it's just a few that actually need it and know how to manipulate it, the rest just wants to have it because they think their footage will become magically so much better, I have seen enough poorly graded log footage to prove my point. When you combine the GH5 with other camera's, like the g80, gx85 or gh4 I also wonder how that will turn out when you shoot vlog, spend a lot of time grading it and then find out it doesn't match any of your other camera's footage. You can also ask yourself if it's worth all the extra time grading your footage when you have to shoot and edit a wedding every weekend.
On Vlog L: I agree with you that most of the "graded" footage we see in forums based on Vlog is dispiriting at best.

I have now experimented with using Vlog L on the GH4. I had the same fears as you about the amount of time needed and the inability to match the look with that of other Panasonic cameras (I have the GX85). The answer, however, is the Panasonic-supplied REC709 LUT. In Resolve, for example, you use the LUT as the 3D Output LUT and you see all the clips in REC709 color and contrast. And the clips then look exactly like 'Standard' PP in Panasonic's other cameras. So no problem on color. You then can take advantage of the extra DR - the headroom - to deal with shadows and highs better. But it really is no more work.

The only disadvantage with the GH4 is that when you shoot Vlog, you see the washed out look in the viewfinder/lcd. On the GH5, the REC709 LUT will be applicable in-camera, so you also see what the final output looks like in real time.

Here are three videos I shot in Vlog L and edited using the LUT - no "color grading":




To me the colors are fine, and very much like I get straight from Panasonic's other cameras. What you cannot see is the advantage - that I had plenty of choices about where in the limited REC709 dynamic range I wanted to emphasize.

Btw, my reason for shooting with Vlog L and using the Shogun was to produce HDR video (and it works) , but I am sure your customers are not ready for that, let alone 4K.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 07:43 AM   #83
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
For the gh5 ibis is a new feature, compared to the gh4 it's like night and day when you shoot with unstabilized primes which makes it a very useful and welcome feature. Beside the 4K50p, what advantages would the new codec give you?
IBIS isn't a new feature in that it's already been seen and used before on cameras at this price level. I already have 2 cameras with it, so naturally I'm not as excited about it as say the codec. That said, I love IBIS and it benefits me enormously. Its just not a new feature to me.

As for advantages, I think I've already covered that in my last post; alas I saw your earlier post after replying to your later one. Simply to add, its more my non Wedding work where I see most of the benefits re codec. Wedding work will just be as and when I think it could be useful and if I have the time for it. However as I do like to employ some colour grading, and have had banding issues in the past when trying to implement even light grading to shots, I think it would give me some advantages if I can learn to recognise the type of shots that would likely need the extra codec.
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Old January 11th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #84
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

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Just to have Cliff as an example, he certainly looks overly exited over the camera's specifications that he has preordered a gh5, but I would like to see what he actually thinks the camera does for him that his a7sII cannot do.
For most rec709 shooting, 8bit works great. Even for SLOG-2, 8bit can often do a good job. I have allot of Sony SLOG-2/3 experience and I use them heavily these days. I dont have any V-LOG experience at all. I need to look up what the gamma graph looks like. I dont know if V-LOG has any kind of shoulders or knees mapped into it..

Anyhoo, with SLOG-3, you "can" pull 8bit apart and get banding and other color separation problems on certain scenes. But with 10 bit, you can notch in, stretch, bend, shift and lift almost all you want and you wont see any problems.

For rec.709? I think 10bit is a useless waste of space for that. If your image in camera is 95% what you are going to deliver, 8bit on a solid CODEC is plenty to get you the rest of the way.

My A7s-II? That's not going anywhere. I'm interested in the 6k anamorphic lens capture of the entire vertical and horizontal sensor size, multiple frame rates for slo-mo and no time limit. It's a good B,C or D camera that I can leave on a tripod during a show for 2 hours while I'm getting other angles with other cameras. Chroma keying will be extremely accurate with the GH5.

There are allot of reasons why the GH5 would be a great companion to my A7S-II. Yes, the A7s-II will always be my low light weapon or high dynamic range tool of choice.

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Old January 11th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #85
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

4:2:2 is a big one for me, having to attach something to my Sony gear is a pain so internal 4:2:2 10bit is a winner.

I guess this is the start now, 4:2:2 as a standard for future hybrid style cameras, exciting times I reckon.

With my Sony A7 cams I don't shoot log and with the GH5 I would problem do the same, I just hope that low light capture won't kill this off for me.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 07:11 AM   #86
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Agree Simon,

422, 10 bit for me is a must. I have held off on the new Olympus and will see what this camera can really offer once on the market. Until then keep working with the tools I own.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 05:25 PM   #87
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

I was about to grab a Sony A6500 and will wait now. This GH5 interests me and same as you Paul, I'll keep plugging away with my gear.

The one thing about the GH5 is, it's Broadcast ready in a small package so when I shoot, I won't stand out like I use to with the Big Sony Broadcast cameras.

I've been watching everything on the net from GH4-GH5 and find the images are really murky in the bottom end and highlights tend to blow out fast like a JVC Image.. I know.... there are so many variables going on here, just my observation. The Sonys (from my eye) tends to hold both information a bit better. I would love to do a side by side of a GH5 & Sony A7s or something.
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Old January 12th, 2017, 05:33 PM   #88
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Yup, small would be nice. And it is getting there. So far I am not blown away by the images from the camera, but only time will tell once the production version is out. NAB is only three months away an I plan on going this year.

Will see what else is out and ready to roll for a small camera that can do 422, 10 bit, and hopefully 400Mb/s. And let me go 16mm (full frame equivalent) wide with out distortion.
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:19 PM   #89
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

I'm thinking I might grab the GH5 now after watching and reading everything I can over the weekend, looks great for my needs.

Now, I know nothing about lenses with the Panasonic so can someone advice me on two lenses I should be looking at. I would like a wide and some sort of zoom.

My current lenses are Sony EMount 11-18mm & 18-200mm and I use these in crop mode on the A7s.

Cheers, Simon
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Old January 15th, 2017, 04:28 PM   #90
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Re: New Panasonic GH5 Official

Best all purpose zoom; the panasonic 12-35mm f2.8
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