Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

Yeah
I have a little rolls cam mixer for audio before ingest to the cam which takes left and right xlr channels + aux in then outputs 3.5 and figure something can be rigged up for headphones using the a/v out off the cam
Been screwing nd filters on lenses so that's no sweat to get a set of those in 62mm so long as its with you when you need it
I'm really excited and the next month is going to be like a really really long christmas eve...

that will do. I need phantom power as well (because I'm used to my old mic that I know exactly how will work under any scenario but in case I could also get a rode too ... whatever... let's get the camera first)

this one can be the camcorder we all been waiting for after the D90 put all the pro-sumer camcorders to shame. I have a good feeling about this fx1000 . it may be the one. Then if the camera is good and brings the work home I wouldn't mind spending on the necessary things. room to attach a light and the microphone on the flash shoe A mattebox with lee slots will be easier than screwing and unscrewing fast, Bruce... but again let's get the camera first, then we'll see

by the end of July.... almost there :)

[Mark Rosenzweig]

I am confused by this discussion: all of the gripes about this camera are solved by the Sony AX100, which also has the 1" sensor. To wit:

wired and wireless remote controller; no 30-minute limit; built-in ND filters (three!); parfocal zooming (which the Panasonic surely will not have); variable-speed zoom, including quick zoom; mic in; audio out; XLR attachment possible. And if you do not want 4K, there is the CX900 for $1499, which I am sure will have better 1080 than the Panasonic. The AX100/CX900 have many buttons for controlling manually.

Oh, and the AX100 has already had a firmware update to improve the zoom (quicker) and auto focus tracking. So much for gripes about updates from Sony...

The main lack: no customization of looks, no RAW photos.

[Bruce Dempsey]

I'm not confused Mark, just cheap !
the fz1000 is less than half the price
I'm an optimist.
Time was panny ruled this segment if memory serves
And As Anthony says, maybe this is the one.
And I'm a Sony fanboy so its not brand snobery

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

I am confused by this discussion: all of the gripes about this camera are solved by the Sony AX100, which also has the 1" sensor. To wit:

wired and wireless remote controller; no 30-minute limit; built-in ND filters (three!); parfocal zooming (which the Panasonic surely will not have); variable-speed zoom, including quick zoom; mic in; audio out; XLR attachment possible. And if you do not want 4K, there is the CX900 for $1499, which I am sure will have better 1080 than the Panasonic. The AX100/CX900 have many buttons for controlling manually.

Oh, and the AX100 has already had a firmware update to improve the zoom (quicker) and auto focus tracking. So much for gripes about updates from Sony...

The main lack: no customization of looks, no RAW photos.

Mark
3 reasons

1. you can't mount a light and shotgun (and I'm not going to play with that sony nonsense flash mount, I remember the sr11 with a similar useless mount) ( and that's the price to pay when the designers have to listen to the marketing people who want to sell absurd accessories, pushing proprietary mounts for it): see? people may decide to buy from the competition, just because of that greedy idiotic marketing push)
2. The AF is nowhere near to the panasonic , and even if it's 1inch is still demanding. MF on a camcorder of this kind is out of the question.
3. the price difference compared to the fz1000 that (on paper) gives everything better for a fraction of the cost

enough reasons?

to bruce : the remote of the sony gives zoom control, start/stop, focus, and 16 (I think) zoom speeds to be set on the remote. Panasonic (if it works) should give just zoom and maybe start-stop and that's it.
Another thing to consider (and verify before we buy it) is how noisy is the zoom, in case we should put the shotgun away, as far as possible. Other than that I don't see any intentional restrictions (beside the missing ND filters): it should be fine (it should but we don't know yet)

[Dave Blackhurst]

Hmm, I put together a three shoe mount and two singles for under $20 in parts, and a little time customizing the shoe to fit. NO problem mounting a light and a mic... you'd have to have something similar for any camera...

AF on the AX100 is quite good. The FZ1000 is currently an unknown. it's a wash...

And my only comment is that with Panasonic, my experience is that you get what you pay for... yes, they produce some great cameras on paper, but that's different from IMAGE QUALITY when the bits hit the fan!

I've already seen enough in the Panasonic samples to know I'd likely be very disappointed vs. the AX100 and the RX10 - yeah, both more expensive cameras, but again, you get what you pay for.

I tried the vaunted FZ200, hoping for a great "cheap" camera... the images were "cheap" too... I know some people love and use that camera, but the image quality was just not up to what I expect from ANY camera - even though "on paper" it "should have been" a great cam. I have cameras I paid less than $100 for that outperformed it in terms of general image quality.

Both the above Sonys were good "on paper", and despite some people not knowing how to use them, most are getting eye popping results, myself included. Image quality compromised for budget is not something I'm willing to accept.

Lest you think I'm being overly critical, let me say that I really hope the FZ1000 is better than the posted samples for 4K and stills... I think it will again be a great "budget" entry to 4K, it will push the market down, but I also worry that the 4K produced based on the samples posted will be less than exciting. I'd love it if it turned out that it's the perfect marriage of the RX10 and the AX100... but the samples (and I presume those were the "best" output) didn't even come close to impressing me. A nice budget entry, meaning more people "testing" 4K, and that's GOOD, but I'll wait to hear how it goes for "early adopters"... And even if it SUCKS (the 4K samples weren't THAT bad, just not as good as what the AX100 can produce), maybe it'll get Sony off the dime on putting 4K into the Cybershots!

GO PANASONIC!! <wink>

[Bruce Dempsey]

if both cams were more or less the same price I'd most likely go for the Sony ( I have a dozen or more Sony's in drawers,on shelves and in carry cases and I am comfortable with the file formats and love the handiness of PMB but the fact is I can get two 4k video cameras for the price of one, Despite Dave's warning (much respect sir but no) of the possibility of reduced image quality I bet we'll see similar video quality and most likely superior stills. I don't have a 4k video camera at the moment so I don't have any position to defend so it easier for me to pick the panny this time

[Noa Put]

The only thing that raises some questions is the dynamic range of this camera as the example video from panasonic showed some harsh highlight differences that where not handled very well but we"ll know soon enough when the first user videos will appear, one thing the camera seems to have plenty of which is detail and that is one of the features why you would get a 4K camera, the ax100 is a more complete camera but with a matching pricetag.

[Bruce Dempsey]

a pdf re fz1000
https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads...7092357/377299


a bit of video
http://mr.mention.net/link/xgxr/on5g...dF90b19hcHA9MA

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Hmm, I put together a three shoe mount and two singles for under $20 in parts, and a little time customizing the shoe to fit. NO problem mounting a light and a mic... you'd have to have something similar for any camera...

AF on the AX100 is quite good. The FZ1000 is currently an unknown. it's a wash...

And my only comment is that with Panasonic, my experience is that you get what you pay for... yes, they produce some great cameras on paper, but that's different from IMAGE QUALITY when the bits hit the fan!

I've already seen enough in the Panasonic samples to know I'd likely be very disappointed vs. the AX100 and the RX10 - yeah, both more expensive cameras, but again, you get what you pay for.

I tried the vaunted FZ200, hoping for a great "cheap" camera... the images were "cheap" too... I know some people love and use that camera, but the image quality was just not up to what I expect from ANY camera - even though "on paper" it "should have been" a great cam. I have cameras I paid less than $100 for that outperformed it in terms of general image quality.

Both the above Sonys were good "on paper", and despite some people not knowing how to use them, most are getting eye popping results, myself included. Image quality compromised for budget is not something I'm willing to accept.

Lest you think I'm being overly critical, let me say that I really hope the FZ1000 is better than the posted samples for 4K and stills... I think it will again be a great "budget" entry to 4K, it will push the market down, but I also worry that the 4K produced based on the samples posted will be less than exciting. I'd love it if it turned out that it's the perfect marriage of the RX10 and the AX100... but the samples (and I presume those were the "best" output) didn't even come close to impressing me. A nice budget entry, meaning more people "testing" 4K, and that's GOOD, but I'll wait to hear how it goes for "early adopters"... And even if it SUCKS (the 4K samples weren't THAT bad, just not as good as what the AX100 can produce), maybe it'll get Sony off the dime on putting 4K into the Cybershots!

GO PANASONIC!! <wink>

like I said I'm not going to play with the idiotic shoe mount of the AX100. I did it it in the past with the SR11 and never again. (and of course Sony did it in purpose: when they design they know exactly what will work and what will not work and why) it's their decision and they can do whatever they want and I can do whatever I want skipping the purchase (see? we're even). The AF of the AX100 is slow and hunts. The AF of the FZ1000 is as fast as the GH4. The FZ1000 gives video almost as good as the GH4 and that concludes the story about quality.
What makes me thinking and thinking is somewhere else and again in regarding of another trick and that's the 30min limitation. Yeah: that's a big one. Like always they (all) measure the limitations scientifically. Good thing we have this forum where we can talk.


P.S. about the proprietary shoe mount attachment let me give you a good piece of advice: when you play with shoe raisers and gadgets like that make sure you turn the camera off before. the same when you remove the attachments. Also make absolutely sure that the gadget sits tight with NO play. That's mandatory and if not extremely risky (and that comes from the experience), What works better? A standard shoe mount (always). Do they know that? Of course they know. LOL

[Bruce Dempsey]

Only time 30min is a problem for my production is in the event of a university convocation or such which can run to 3 hrs, I'll have several cameras rolling. The video camcorders just keep on rolling but if you are occupied and a 30min cam stops recording and is not noticed then something will be lost Also if it's a file based post production effort rather than live switched then syncing is more of a chore

Connected is sooooo much better than years ago when we were islands unable to know what others everywhere around the world were doing other than monthly magazines.
Really fantastic the way improved communications has axcelerated humankind's progress.
eg: My son had a breakdown on the highway couple days ago. After hunting on Youtube with his phone, found the solution, make the fix and went on his way. A few years ago the outcome would have been much more painful.

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Bruce Dempsey

Only time 30min is a problem for my production is in the event of a university convocation or such which can run to 3 hrs, I'll have several cameras rolling. The video camcorders just keep on rolling but if you are occupied and a 30min cam stops recording and is not noticed then something will be lost Also if it's a file based post production effort rather than live switched then syncing is more of a chore

Connected is sooooo much better than years ago when we were islands unable to know what others everywhere around the world were doing other than monthly magazines.
Really fantastic the way improved communications has axcelerated humankind's progress.
eg: My son had a breakdown on the highway couple days ago. After hunting on Youtube with his phone, found the solution, make the fix and went on his way. A few years ago the outcome would have been much more painful.

Bruce the 30min limitation is a problem and will always be a problem. Since I bought pluraleyes all my syncing are easy. Definitely take a closer look at that software. Sometimes I use the zoom instead of the on-camera shotgun just for the fun of syncing it (well not really.. but that little software works great and makes our life easier). Try it.

[Ken Ross]

I have not been wowed with the samples I've seen from the FZ1000 when viewed in 4K. The image depth, detail and dynamic range are simply not as good as the AX100.

The AF of the AX100 is quite good and the combination of its manual controls, zebras, peaking, 1" sensor and 3 stage ND filters, all contribute to superior image quality as well as better control over DOF.

There's no way I'd sacrifice all that just to get more flexibility in the shoe mount. Frankly that makes little sense to me, but each to his own.

As has been said, you get what you pay for.

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

I have not been wowed with the samples I've seen from the FZ1000 when viewed in 4K. The image depth, detail and dynamic range are simply not as good as the AX100.

The AF of the AX100 is quite good and the combination of its manual controls, zebras, peaking, 1" sensor and 3 stage ND filters, all contribute to superior image quality as well as better control over DOF.

There's no way I'd sacrifice all that just to get more flexibility in the shoe mount. Frankly that makes little sense to me, but each to his own.

As has been said, you get what you pay for.

nah the FZ1000 videos are fine. And the zoom is impressive. The stabilization is superior to the Sony's implementation for handycams, the AF is lighting fast, touchable , perfect. The camera is ready to work on a tripod and the shoe can handle the weight of mandatory accessories like a shotgun and a video light. If you din't find the need for those yet then give another few weeks of shooting and come back after that.
All pointing to the FZ1000 as a superior camera compared to the handycam AX100

I use a sony ea50 right now , and a canon XA20 . I had the EX1 before. so about my own.

funny how they don't sleep to come out with limitations over limitations: now let's think about this: the FZ1000 gives a 2.5mm tripod remote zoom control and that's basically a still camera, while the AX100 can't have that option. Funny uh? They just can't sleep at night and wake up in the middle of the night with a new limitation "what about if we take OFF the lanc? yeyyy..." or better yet let's make it even harder with the mandatory purchase of a cable, so 2 patch cables, one for the 2.5mm to 10pin (A/VR) and another cable to the idiotic port. since they'll have to buy at least 2 of each cables (total of 4 small patch cables... WOW!) , and then 2 more cables to use any 2.5mm lanc remote then the beauty of the marketing got to the highest level of stupidity (our stupidity, they make money with these idiotic things)

remember that the handycam ax100 is a camcorder, so lanc is kinda important for a camcorder, isn't it? and it's a damn 2.5mm port.

anyway any camera without a useable remote zoom option will be immediately dismissed by me. The same goes for any 2014 camera without face recognition at least. so the AX1 is out as well. The flexibility of the AF of all the panasonic gh2-3-4 and now this jewel FZ1000 makes interviews a piece of cake.

and that's my own.

now let's hear about your own.....

[Ken Ross]

We won't convince each other. I and others have spoken our peace. So be it. You'll never convince me the Panny is a superior camera. I've used my eyes from the clips released thus far and it's simply not as good as the AX100 on a variety of fronts.

BTW, the AF on the AX100 is quite flexible. Using the touch screen for selective focus enables you to do a pull focus with little effort. Tracking focus is another very nice feature and the firmware update just issued improves upon this.

But whatever, enjoy your camera.

[Bruce Dempsey]

We must maintain a semblance of objectivity in this discussion. It serves no purpose to reduce the conversation to assertions amounting to "my camera is better than your camera" the DMC Lumix FZ1000 isn't even here yet but I for one am delighted my first 4k camera is costing me 1/2 of what the first bunch did.
Doesn't matter if this or that is better or not. It's going to be awesome anyway