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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #196
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Very nice footage Noa. You have clearly demonstrated what the RX10 is capable of in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing; how refreshing. Good on you, and thanks for posting.

I have one on the way. Itís coming (and so is Christmas). Courier service here is still done on horseback, or so it seems. Good to know that when it does finally arrive the last thing I need to worry about is the codec!
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #197
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Good to know that when it does finally arrive the last thing I need to worry about is the codec!
And you where right as usual, it has 14 stops of dynamic range so you finally can sell your pocketcam. ;)
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Old December 12th, 2013, 04:24 PM   #198
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Ha ha, well, you never know it just might come in handy even if I can't imagine what for right now. A couple of things I have learned from my experience with the Pocket cam (other than it doesn't fit in my pocket) is that it is quite OK, not a terrible sin, to sometimes crush the blacks and blow out a highlight here and there. And that there is more BS spoken about DR than you can shake a stick at :-)
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Old December 12th, 2013, 10:41 PM   #199
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

the wifi apps thing is one area where sony needs to cut the BS on, all the functionality is there, yet is mostly not available for the rx10. you can only do basic photo shooting with it, while im told even the rx1002 can can at least control basic video shooting. the nex and a7 were even given an api for developers to make apps, and for no given reason they won't release an api for any RX camera.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 03:30 AM   #200
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Many camera manufacturers could have a tagline with their camera's like: "Close, but no cigar" but especially Canon and Sony are leading the pack. They cripple all camera's below a certain pricepoint to protect their higher end camera's. Years ago when I bought my Canon xh-a1 it was simple, you had a more expensive brother but it had extra connectivity, it was an expensive upgrade but at least the image quality was exactly the same, same for the Sony ex1/ex3, same image quality but different approach. So to me it looks like the sensors in these camera's where at their limit in quality they could output and therefore differences where made in functionality.

Then they "accidentally" discover in 2008 you could shoot video with a dslr, in 2013 the ML team discovers the 5DII and the 50d which was released around the same period can shoot raw, you don't have to tell me the Canon engineers where not aware about, they knew how powerful these large sensor camera's where and had to lay out a long term plan to squeeze as much sales out of as many different models they could produce, it's no coincidence that in the past you only had one model per category and release time for new models took a longer time, they could only make a difference in functionality, now the dslr sensors are so powerful it opened a whole new world in possibilities to differentiate their offerings and by doing so making much more money. Now they spit out so many new models so quickly that it's hard to keep up anymore. Crippling each model down the line should make many users buy more models then they actually needed or find ways to work around the limitations, something which I and many others have done. If you want to have a cigar you pay a very high premium price. If you think they have reached their limit, 4k is around the corner and is the next phase of again a whole new offerings for the next years to come from a technology that already existed years ago.

Then we should not forget the accessory market which has exploded since the large sensor revolution, there have been so many new accessory manufacturers born just because camera manufacturers make a contest out of it producing the weirdest formfactors. Everybody wins.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #201
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

This is where the RX10 is a bit of "luck" - it comes out of the STILL camera division, and I think most would say that as a STILL camera, it's a tad spendy.... but it's looking to be a very capable VIDEO camera, having extensive video oriented features.

It's a bit of an oddity, as arguably it's at least, if not MORE capable in many respects as any of the "consumer" Sony video cams, and holds up nicely against their "pro" lines feature wise. The list of "missing" features is pretty short, and this will be my next "video" camera, with the bonus of excellent stills. There are still a couple "dedicated" video features that would be nice - no clip limit, I like touchscreen controls... and hmmm, how about a LANC port, just because it would come in handy sometimes... unless an "app" would cover that ground!



I know that internet legend is that manufacturers deliberately cripple products so they can sell more product next year, but honestly there are plenty of other factors at work here, it's not a conspiracy...

It takes time to develop and then fine tune sensors and processors, manufacturing techniques, etc... so sometimes a product needs to ship while that process still has room to mature. Another 6-12 months, and they can and do refine the hardware and the software. And yes, they do have to consider that "next years model" needs to have some compelling reason to impress potential buyers, AND better performance/specs.

There are marketing considerations - what the vast majority of the market "expects" is different from what some of us on the bleeding edge might want/expect/dream of. Giving a laundry list of features that causes the buyers eyes to glaze over doesn't sell product. Implementing obscure features that appeal to a limited market may actually create other problems...

There are limits to how complex you can make a product for the CONSUMER market - having dealt recently with a return on a camera I sold because of USER MALFUNCTION, I can only imagine the nightmare manufacturers deal with. With complex electronics, you'd be surprised how badly a user can foul things up due to lack of knowledge, or just doing something "dumb". Look at how early video samples from the RX10 were generally bad, because still shooters with limited video experience shot "bad" samples - there you go... experienced video shooters seem to be finding the RX10 to be quite the new toy, with a little time to figure out settings and such.



I do hope Sony will open up access to "tweaking" features, but as someone who likes to "tinker", I'll have to say this is something a manufacturer must be EXTREMELY careful with - if a "hack" or "mod" fries or bricks a camera, who pays the bill... the guy who pushed it too hard, or the manufacturer that provided access to "hack/mod/tweak"? If your camera is no longer 100% stable (lets say it's 90%+), but does some nifty new things, will you be happy? If you buy a camera expecting it to work a certain way with your "smart" phone only to discover your phone isn't quite smart enough unless you upgrade to the newest version... will the manufacturer be blamed? I know I've fiddled with the RX100M2 and my "smart" phone, but it appears my "last years" Android phone ain't so bright...

My only question when looking at a "tool", is will it do the job and justify the investment... the RX100 proved it's worth, the M2 version is a decent upgrade, and the RX10 ticks so many boxes, it's almost a no-brainer for me. Haven't had a camera yet that didn't have room for improvement SOMEWHERE, but I'm liking the current Sony design philosophy exhibited in the RX series.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 06:56 AM   #202
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

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Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
There are limits to how complex you can make a product for the CONSUMER market - having dealt recently with a return on a camera I sold because of USER MALFUNCTION, I can only imagine the nightmare manufacturers deal with.
Completely agree with this. The buyer of my VG20 that I sold pre-owned claimed the camcorder wasn't recording properly. It was actually a codec issue on his computer as it worked fine when it was returned back to me, but by then I had already incurred costs accepting a return (wasted £35 on postage via Special Delivery w/ Insurance etc).

But I can only imagine the costs manufacturers must incur due to consumers lack of knowledge.
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Old December 13th, 2013, 08:21 AM   #203
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Hi all,
I'm thinking to sell my EX1r for my weddings video because is too heavy for me
I'm interested in Sony NEX-EA50, the new HXR-NX3, but even in this RX10
I need to know how I can adjust the iris and focus and if there is a manual/auto switch
The operations are fast or complicated?

Thanks in advance and sorry for my poor english
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Old December 13th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #204
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Dave, I just bought one of these
Sony VCT-VPR100 Remote Control Tripod VCTVPR100 B&H Photo Video
Sony tripods that has 4 cables to control Sony cameras. Maybe one of the ports on the RX10 can be controlled by this tripod ?

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Old December 13th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #205
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Just had a look at the pdf for the RX10 and it has a Micro USB terminal compatible with Multi terminal devices !!! Would that include the tripod I mentioned above ? The tripod came with a micro USB cable labeled multi !!

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Old December 13th, 2013, 03:54 PM   #206
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Hmmm, the mysterious new "multi-interface" interface....going to have to start looking into that more closely... offhand it looks like it may well be possible to "hack in" on that USB port... or the new MI shoe... or both... That tripod description certainly implies it is there.

Darn Sony and their "undocumented" features - shades of the A/V jack that was so interesting to hack a while back before Sony released any compatible LANC remotes! I stumbled into cracking the code by reverse engineering a sport pack underwater shell... Sony US product support had no idea the functionality was even there, but it was in the service manuals...

Now to go figure out where to get service manuals!? Those usually document the pinouts, and you find out all the fun stuff that's hidden under the hood! I'd be happy with something akin to the tiny RMAV remotes - on/off, start/stop, zoom, and photo... sounds like there could easily be one in the future!

Right now I just have to wrestle with my aversion to paying "retail" and pull the trigger on an RX10 - I was so hoping that there would be a flood of these "lightly used" from people who would be "disappointed" when they couldn't figure out how to use the camera...
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Old December 14th, 2013, 02:34 AM   #207
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Yes Ron your tripod will control the functions through the multi terminal, I'm using remote commander RM-VPR1 which clips to my tripod with the RX10.
If you have any of the old handycam AV/R accessories, there is a multi adapter VMC-AVM1.

The hot shoe is multi interface so the handycam Video light HVL-LE1 and Stereo mic ECM-EYST1m work.
Very useful for me for my travels that I can use the same accessories both from the VG30 and Rx100 and CX cams, there is even a new battery charger that will charge V,W and M batteries BC-QM1.
very neat.
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Old December 14th, 2013, 02:55 AM   #208
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Thanks Paul for those model #'s! The remote and charger will go onto the wish list immediately! With that remote, the RX10 becomes that much more useful for video!
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #209
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

Does the remote commander RM-VPR1 allow for variable speed zoom with the RX10? Can a "creep" speed be achieved and if so is it smooth?
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Old December 14th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #210
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Re: Sony RX10 point-and-shoot camera

this new multi port has to be one of the most disregarded changes sony made. from some reports, it's just a replacement/change to the D connector they usually use, and just carrys the pins for a/v and lanc, which is fine, but there is seemingly no adapter out there to to get at the lanc....

if these reports are accurate, then a cable like this but for the new port is what's needed to use a regular lanc controller:

Libec LANC/AV Adapter Cable for Sony Handycam Cameras A-3AV B&H

but i've dug around and if such a cable exists, it's been hidden under 6 feet of dirt.
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