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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old October 4th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #1
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Cheaper alternative to Nano for EX1 ??

Enter The Ninja


Its only $ 1,000 USD so that's a lot cheaper than the Nano, BUT it only accepts HDMI not HD-SDI….. Does that mean it records in HDV quality only ?
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Old October 4th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #2
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nice @ 2 grand cheaper than the nano.
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Old October 4th, 2010, 11:04 PM   #3
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Says pro res which is definitely nicer than hdv. Just curious about the hdmi-in quality-wise. Do camcorders really output 10bit from the hdmi? Also amusing they are marketing it to dslr owners when its a well known fact dslrs can't output useable video from the hdmi out. Now if my 150 would benefit from this, I'd be all over it as it would save tons of transcoding time since I go to pro res for editing. Would it be better quality than the internal avchd encode the camera does? Hmmmmmmm! Might have to run a test with the camera running into my Matrox via hdmi vs same image recorded in camera then transcoded. I know it's not exactly the same as the ninja but might provide a clue.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 11:05 AM   #4
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ProRes? ProRes! Why ProRes? Do these guys think the only computers being used are made by Apple? Why don't they address the other 95% of the available market? It's too bad; it looks like a nice unit - but a useless nice unit to me.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 11:07 AM   #5
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jim...what nle do you use?
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Old October 5th, 2010, 11:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Snow View Post
ProRes? ProRes! Why ProRes? Do these guys think the only computers being used are made by Apple? Why don't they address the other 95% of the available market? It's too bad; it looks like a nice unit - but a useless nice unit to me.
Wow, what would you have them use? AVI? Don't know what NLE you use but I deliver pro res to a bunch of friends on Windows systems who use a variety of software. They have no issues.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 11:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Snow View Post
ProRes? ProRes! Why ProRes? Do these guys think the only computers being used are made by Apple? Why don't they address the other 95% of the available market? It's too bad; it looks like a nice unit - but a useless nice unit to me.
I would admit that using ProRes may limit it for some users. However, I would say that you are a
bit 'off' with other statements. For example, the 'other 95%' argument, may be true in the
general business world, but is definitely NOT true in the postproduction area. Not to get into a
platform war, as I will be the first to admit that both Mac and PC's have strengths and weaknesses,
but Mac computers make up a MUCH higher percentage of use by editors than 5%.......
estimates from a year ago showed Final Cut Pro with over 50% marketshare. Now I'm not sure
those are totally accurate either, BUT Macs are definitely NOT only a '5% market share' in the editing arena.

But even that isn't the entire story here. ProRes can and is used by other editors than only Final Cut Pro.
Adobe Premiere will work just fine with ProRes, as will Avid MC. So, although the 'codec' may be made by Apple,
other NLE's will work just fine with it, and really it is an amazing codec......even if it was made by Apple.
:-)

What NLE do you use? You may be surprised to find that it will work with ProRes.....lots of them do these days.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 11:47 AM   #8
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I just sent Atomos an email asking if they plan to support another codec such as Cineform. I don't know the issues associated with licensing Cineform. If it's doable, it's a better codec and can be used on both platforms.

The supposed 'global' percentage of users that use one platform versus another is suspect and irrelevant to me. The only credible data point to me is that your data doesn't hold true in the videographers association that I belong to. If Apple doesn't get with the program and update Final cut Pro sometime within the decade, the ratio will change even more.

I will post any response that I get to my email to Atomos. It looks like they have a very interesting product. Competition helps us all. The Nano is overpriced IMHO.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #9
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The problem with ProRes on a PC is when there is a need to encode to ProRes such as when sharing workflow between PC and Mac NLEs. For over a year, ProRes can be read on a PC that has a current version of Quicktime installed. But a PC can't export render ProRes. I have done quite a bit of collaborative editing with FCP editors and find that Cineform works very well. You can move video files back and forth easily. Cineform files can be exported 8 or 10 times with virtually no loss in video quality.
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Old October 5th, 2010, 12:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Snow View Post
The supposed 'global' percentage of users that use one platform versus another is suspect and irrelevant to me. The only credible data point to me is that your data doesn't hold true in the videographers association that I belong to. If Apple doesn't get with the program and update Final cut Pro sometime within the decade, the ratio will change even more.
IMHO.
I intentionally did NOT use data from 'my experience'. It seems to me, that just because a certain
'editors association' or 'videographers association' in random areas of the country use one type
of NLE, that means really nothing in the big picture. If I was to use date from my experiences in
video associations and working at broadcast TV stations, I would have had to say over 90% Mac,
but I suspect that does not translate to the rest of the world very well. And the 'global' percentage
may be irrelevant to you, but I highly suspect it is VERY VERY relevant to those businesses that
make these products. For example, if ProRes is used by 65% of all NLE users and Cineform is
used by 25%, I would suspect that they are going make devices that record to ProRes. I'm just
saying....businesses are trying to make money here....

As for Cineform, you run into similar problems on a Mac, as you are running into
with ProRes on a PC. Cineform when exported from a PC is an .avi file and that is NOT Mac friendly.
Cineform on a Mac writes to .mov and that is NOT PC friendly. To use Cineform in a cross platform
was, I think you need to jump to NeoHD which is around $400-$500.....or you could just use
DNxHD, which works on both Macs and PC's......it's a FREE Avid codec if I remember correctly.
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Old October 6th, 2010, 02:53 AM   #11
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Finally, a portable recorder that uses SSD's and a SATA port. Is it possible they have figured out how provide reliable ProRes firmware. On the downside, our EX camera's have SDI outputs, so HDMI is not very practical.

AJA has been at this for two years with their KI-Pro and now KI-Mini both offer SDI/HDMI inputs. The Pro version is far from portable and is power hungry, firmware is another issue. Sadly their mini resorts to CF cards and that has limited usefulness because ProRes produces larger file sizes.

The Blackmagic Pro-Recorder is portable, uses H.264 and has very good 12-bit 4:2:2 inards as well as SDI/HDMI inputs. However it needs to be tethered to a laptop for storage and processing. It is still not shipping and now three months past their original delivery date.

As was pointed out the Nano/Flash. are pricey but is a working, mostly reliable and deliverable product. I do not want to fiddle around with CF cards for my work. Now if they integrated an SSD and could deliver the same feature set that would appeal to me.

So IMHO, more evolution is required to catch the revolution!
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Old October 6th, 2010, 06:58 AM   #12
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NO HDMI, Don't despair,I was speaking to one of the developers of the NINJA who spoke to the AVPA last night and he was exploring the possibility of producing a SDI input version.

regards

Ian Skurrie
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Old October 6th, 2010, 08:03 AM   #13
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Well, I use Vegas which can't handle Pro-Res. The Aja units are geared toward FC Pro as well. Our choices are limited so the Nano seems like the only reliable choice if one wants to spend that much money for it. The Blackmagic Pro-Recorder sounds interesting, but there is no User Manual to download and no test reports I am aware of. Blackmagic says it is shipping this month (October).

John
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Old October 6th, 2010, 12:37 PM   #14
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The competition is getting interesting day by day. looking at this ninja at the moment the only thing i have agaist it is the name. I do not like chinese names(no apologies). but I might be picking one when the full details is out and real world test prove good.
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Old October 6th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #15
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Hi Olakunle, Ninja is Japanese, not Chinese,

Greetings Jan
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